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  • Originally posted by Shiver
    Originally posted by Wynel
    Originally posted by Shiver
    Eli Manning is the opposite of Ben Roethlisberger. The Giants pass to set up Tiki Barber for big gashing runs. The Steelers run to set up Ben for vertical play action passes.
    What the hell does that matter? Offensive philosophies are different, who cares? They didn't change anything when Ben came aboard and no one expected them to. What works, works. You guys have no freakin' idea how dumb this argument is. All 3 of them are good and get the job done...let it cease!

    Do you even know what argument I am making? I think Ben is an above average NFL QB, that is overhyped due to his Super Bowl ring. It's not like I think he's bad.
    Uh huh, and that's your personal opinion, which will differ from the opinions of others. This discussion is only inviting argument and should be locked.

    Comment


    • What the **** is the point of the forum if a discussion point causes heavy debate? It should be "locked"?!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Shiver
        What the **** is the point of the forum if a discussion point causes heavy debate? It should be "locked"?!
        He's sort of out of it. Ignore him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by frogstomp
          Originally posted by Shiver
          What the **** is the point of the forum if a discussion point causes heavy debate? It should be "locked"?!
          He's sort of out of it. Ignore him.
          Hey! How was the coffee? You calm down yet from being manhandled earlier?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by frogstomp
            Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
            My whole point is this.

            Ben is considered a game manager and just barely above Average QB.

            He has outperformed Eli and Phillip. Granted it's been a team performance as well. But You don't knock Rivers for having LT and that killer defense? Yet it's a knock on ben that he's simply a game manager.

            What have Eli and Phillip done so far to warrant that their Elite that Ben Hasn't done and yet he gets knocked for it.

            Eli had a crappy playoff game, he gets a free pass because "He was a rookie, and it was his first one." I'm basically saying I'm sick and tired of hearing Excuses for why Manning didn't perform so well, yet every time I make a point I'm a homer and I'm just hyping a "Sub-par Steelers Team".

            Ben and Eli could play Identically through the rest of the season. Eli will be considered Elite because.. He's Eli Manning. Ben would still be considered a game manager.

            My whole point is team or not. Ben did win a superbowl, he didn't play great, but he still played well enough to win. He also Had a big role in defeating Denver, Cincinnatti and Indy.

            However thats a knock against him? Why is Eli getting a pass everytime he plays a *********** game but Ben is a *********** QB because he has a bad game every now again. Put your homerism aside and give me an unbiased opinion.

            I'm not saying Ben will be a better QB for the rest of their careers... But seriously? Why is Eli, who hasn't proved that much, a top 10 QB already and Ben is simply a game Manager..
            Just look at last years stats.
            Look at their Post season stats.

            Ben Man handled Denver in the AFC Championship, he passed over Indy, and He had some great plays in the Cincy game. He had a huge part in getting the Steelers to the superbowl. The least the team could do is carry him for the superbowl game.

            Their 2 different philosophies. Manning has to pass alot, Ben doesn't need to. Doesn't mean Ben isn't just as good as Eli. Eli has 1 season under his belt, that ended on a sour note that everyone is making weak excuses for. No one wants to let Eli take the blame for the Carolina game, but blame Ben for the Superbowl... which his team won.....


            Eli was 10/18 with 3 INTs against Carolina.... 1st game of the Post Season..

            Ben was 14/19 for 208 yds and 3 Tds.

            It's not fair to compare Eli's poor Wild Card Performance against bens Superbowl performance.. A wild card game is Hardly the same pressure as the Superbowl.

            Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

            Comment


            • How did he pass all over Indy? He didn't even have 200 yards.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by cardsalltheway
                How did he pass all over Indy? He didn't even have 200 yards.
                197 yards. sorry. In fact he had a great post season just a bad Superbowl..


                AFC Wild Card Game 1/8 at Cincinnati: Had the best playoff performance of his young career…completed 14-of-19 passes for 208 yards, three TDs and a 148.7 passer-rating…did not throw an interception…three TDs set a new career high in the postseason…completed a 54-yard pass to WR Cedrick Wilson for the longest postseason completion of his career…rushed four times for three yards…

                14/19 for 208yds, 3TDs

                AFC Divisional Game 1/15 at Indianapolis: Improved to 3-1 in the postseason as a starting QB…completed 14-of-24 passes for 197 yards, with a long of 45…had two TD passes and a quarterback rating of 95.3…made a game-saving tackle on Nick Harper after he returned a fumble to the Colts' 42-yard line…

                14/24 for 197yds, 2 TD passes

                AFC Championship Game 1/22 at Denver: Completed 21-of-29 passes for 275 yards, two TDs and a 124.9 passer-rating…rushed three times for 12 yards and one TD…TD was his first career rushing TD in postseason…21 completions and 275 yards were both career highs in the postseason…

                21/29 for 275 yds, 2 TDs

                Those are pretty good stats for a "Game Manager"

                Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                  Originally posted by cardsalltheway
                  How did he pass all over Indy? He didn't even have 200 yards.
                  197 yards. sorry. In fact he had a great post season just a bad Superbowl..


                  AFC Wild Card Game 1/8 at Cincinnati: Had the best playoff performance of his young career…completed 14-of-19 passes for 208 yards, three TDs and a 148.7 passer-rating…did not throw an interception…three TDs set a new career high in the postseason…completed a 54-yard pass to WR Cedrick Wilson for the longest postseason completion of his career…rushed four times for three yards…

                  14/19 for 208yds, 3TDs

                  AFC Divisional Game 1/15 at Indianapolis: Improved to 3-1 in the postseason as a starting QB…completed 14-of-24 passes for 197 yards, with a long of 45…had two TD passes and a quarterback rating of 95.3…made a game-saving tackle on Nick Harper after he returned a fumble to the Colts' 42-yard line…

                  14/24 for 197yds, 2 TD passes

                  AFC Championship Game 1/22 at Denver: Completed 21-of-29 passes for 275 yards, two TDs and a 124.9 passer-rating…rushed three times for 12 yards and one TD…TD was his first career rushing TD in postseason…21 completions and 275 yards were both career highs in the postseason…

                  21/29 for 275 yds, 2 TDs

                  Those are pretty good stats for a "Game Manager"
                  Except for Denver, those all were exactly what a Game Manager does. throw a little bit so the other team can't constantly stack the box against the run. Now, if he had repeated his Denver performance, I would have believed in him. But he sucked in the Superbowl, the ONE time he can't suck. When Peyton Manning has a great game but his team still loses in the playoffs, he's a choker. When Ben has a horrible game and his team wins in spite of him, he's won his team the superbowl. :?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by frogstomp
                    Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                    Originally posted by cardsalltheway
                    How did he pass all over Indy? He didn't even have 200 yards.
                    197 yards. sorry. In fact he had a great post season just a bad Superbowl..


                    AFC Wild Card Game 1/8 at Cincinnati: Had the best playoff performance of his young career…completed 14-of-19 passes for 208 yards, three TDs and a 148.7 passer-rating…did not throw an interception…three TDs set a new career high in the postseason…completed a 54-yard pass to WR Cedrick Wilson for the longest postseason completion of his career…rushed four times for three yards…

                    14/19 for 208yds, 3TDs

                    AFC Divisional Game 1/15 at Indianapolis: Improved to 3-1 in the postseason as a starting QB…completed 14-of-24 passes for 197 yards, with a long of 45…had two TD passes and a quarterback rating of 95.3…made a game-saving tackle on Nick Harper after he returned a fumble to the Colts' 42-yard line…

                    14/24 for 197yds, 2 TD passes

                    AFC Championship Game 1/22 at Denver: Completed 21-of-29 passes for 275 yards, two TDs and a 124.9 passer-rating…rushed three times for 12 yards and one TD…TD was his first career rushing TD in postseason…21 completions and 275 yards were both career highs in the postseason…

                    21/29 for 275 yds, 2 TDs

                    Those are pretty good stats for a "Game Manager"
                    Except for Denver, those all were exactly what a Game Manager does. throw a little bit so the other team can't constantly stack the box against the run. Now, if he had repeated his Denver performance, I would have believed in him. But he sucked in the Superbowl, the ONE time he can't suck. When Peyton Manning has a great game but his team still loses in the playoffs, he's a choker. When Ben has a horrible game and his team wins in spite of him, he's won his team the superbowl. :?
                    Eli chokes and all is forgiven, ben has great stats leading his team to a superbowl and he's a game manager?

                    Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                      Originally posted by frogstomp
                      Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                      Originally posted by cardsalltheway
                      How did he pass all over Indy? He didn't even have 200 yards.
                      197 yards. sorry. In fact he had a great post season just a bad Superbowl..


                      AFC Wild Card Game 1/8 at Cincinnati: Had the best playoff performance of his young career…completed 14-of-19 passes for 208 yards, three TDs and a 148.7 passer-rating…did not throw an interception…three TDs set a new career high in the postseason…completed a 54-yard pass to WR Cedrick Wilson for the longest postseason completion of his career…rushed four times for three yards…

                      14/19 for 208yds, 3TDs

                      AFC Divisional Game 1/15 at Indianapolis: Improved to 3-1 in the postseason as a starting QB…completed 14-of-24 passes for 197 yards, with a long of 45…had two TD passes and a quarterback rating of 95.3…made a game-saving tackle on Nick Harper after he returned a fumble to the Colts' 42-yard line…

                      14/24 for 197yds, 2 TD passes

                      AFC Championship Game 1/22 at Denver: Completed 21-of-29 passes for 275 yards, two TDs and a 124.9 passer-rating…rushed three times for 12 yards and one TD…TD was his first career rushing TD in postseason…21 completions and 275 yards were both career highs in the postseason…

                      21/29 for 275 yds, 2 TDs

                      Those are pretty good stats for a "Game Manager"
                      Except for Denver, those all were exactly what a Game Manager does. throw a little bit so the other team can't constantly stack the box against the run. Now, if he had repeated his Denver performance, I would have believed in him. But he sucked in the Superbowl, the ONE time he can't suck. When Peyton Manning has a great game but his team still loses in the playoffs, he's a choker. When Ben has a horrible game and his team wins in spite of him, he's won his team the superbowl. :?
                      Eli chokes and all is forgiven, ben has great stats leading his team to a superbowl and he's a game manager?
                      First of all when did Eli choke in particular? Are you talking about the Panthers game? Yeah he did choke, but so did the whole team. Tiki couldn't run, the line couldn't block, and the defense couldn't stop anything. We had three street free agents starting at LB but even if we had our starters I'm not sure it would have made a difference. The whole team lost that day. No matter how bad Eli played you can't blame the loss on him. There was too much blame to go around. Even Tiki said the entire team wasn't ready to play that day.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jughead10
                        Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                        Originally posted by frogstomp
                        Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                        Originally posted by cardsalltheway
                        How did he pass all over Indy? He didn't even have 200 yards.
                        197 yards. sorry. In fact he had a great post season just a bad Superbowl..


                        AFC Wild Card Game 1/8 at Cincinnati: Had the best playoff performance of his young career…completed 14-of-19 passes for 208 yards, three TDs and a 148.7 passer-rating…did not throw an interception…three TDs set a new career high in the postseason…completed a 54-yard pass to WR Cedrick Wilson for the longest postseason completion of his career…rushed four times for three yards…

                        14/19 for 208yds, 3TDs

                        AFC Divisional Game 1/15 at Indianapolis: Improved to 3-1 in the postseason as a starting QB…completed 14-of-24 passes for 197 yards, with a long of 45…had two TD passes and a quarterback rating of 95.3…made a game-saving tackle on Nick Harper after he returned a fumble to the Colts' 42-yard line…

                        14/24 for 197yds, 2 TD passes

                        AFC Championship Game 1/22 at Denver: Completed 21-of-29 passes for 275 yards, two TDs and a 124.9 passer-rating…rushed three times for 12 yards and one TD…TD was his first career rushing TD in postseason…21 completions and 275 yards were both career highs in the postseason…

                        21/29 for 275 yds, 2 TDs

                        Those are pretty good stats for a "Game Manager"
                        Except for Denver, those all were exactly what a Game Manager does. throw a little bit so the other team can't constantly stack the box against the run. Now, if he had repeated his Denver performance, I would have believed in him. But he sucked in the Superbowl, the ONE time he can't suck. When Peyton Manning has a great game but his team still loses in the playoffs, he's a choker. When Ben has a horrible game and his team wins in spite of him, he's won his team the superbowl. :?
                        Eli chokes and all is forgiven, ben has great stats leading his team to a superbowl and he's a game manager?
                        First of all when did Eli choke in particular? Are you talking about the Panthers game? Yeah he did choke, but so did the whole team. Tiki couldn't run, the line couldn't block, and the defense couldn't stop anything. We had three street free agents starting at LB but even if we had our starters I'm not sure it would have made a difference. The whole team lost that day. No matter how bad Eli played you can't blame the loss on him. There was too much blame to go around. Even Tiki said the entire team wasn't ready to play that day.
                        You're the first person to admit that whether not it was a team effort to lose, Eli did Choke. All I was saying is everyone is Calling Eli elite, and Ben a Game Manager, Ben had great QB stats throughout the playoffs and He's not an elite QB, just above average. Meanwhile Eli doesn't do great in the postseason and (I understand Ben had a team around him), he chokes, as their team did. I'm not saying Ben would be better in Ny or Eli in Pitt, but If Eli is elite, then Ben is as well.

                        Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                          Originally posted by Jughead10
                          Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                          Originally posted by frogstomp
                          Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                          Originally posted by cardsalltheway
                          How did he pass all over Indy? He didn't even have 200 yards.
                          197 yards. sorry. In fact he had a great post season just a bad Superbowl..


                          AFC Wild Card Game 1/8 at Cincinnati: Had the best playoff performance of his young career…completed 14-of-19 passes for 208 yards, three TDs and a 148.7 passer-rating…did not throw an interception…three TDs set a new career high in the postseason…completed a 54-yard pass to WR Cedrick Wilson for the longest postseason completion of his career…rushed four times for three yards…

                          14/19 for 208yds, 3TDs

                          AFC Divisional Game 1/15 at Indianapolis: Improved to 3-1 in the postseason as a starting QB…completed 14-of-24 passes for 197 yards, with a long of 45…had two TD passes and a quarterback rating of 95.3…made a game-saving tackle on Nick Harper after he returned a fumble to the Colts' 42-yard line…

                          14/24 for 197yds, 2 TD passes

                          AFC Championship Game 1/22 at Denver: Completed 21-of-29 passes for 275 yards, two TDs and a 124.9 passer-rating…rushed three times for 12 yards and one TD…TD was his first career rushing TD in postseason…21 completions and 275 yards were both career highs in the postseason…

                          21/29 for 275 yds, 2 TDs

                          Those are pretty good stats for a "Game Manager"
                          Except for Denver, those all were exactly what a Game Manager does. throw a little bit so the other team can't constantly stack the box against the run. Now, if he had repeated his Denver performance, I would have believed in him. But he sucked in the Superbowl, the ONE time he can't suck. When Peyton Manning has a great game but his team still loses in the playoffs, he's a choker. When Ben has a horrible game and his team wins in spite of him, he's won his team the superbowl. :?
                          Eli chokes and all is forgiven, ben has great stats leading his team to a superbowl and he's a game manager?
                          First of all when did Eli choke in particular? Are you talking about the Panthers game? Yeah he did choke, but so did the whole team. Tiki couldn't run, the line couldn't block, and the defense couldn't stop anything. We had three street free agents starting at LB but even if we had our starters I'm not sure it would have made a difference. The whole team lost that day. No matter how bad Eli played you can't blame the loss on him. There was too much blame to go around. Even Tiki said the entire team wasn't ready to play that day.
                          You're the first person to admit that whether not it was a team effort to lose, Eli did Choke. All I was saying is everyone is Calling Eli elite, and Ben a Game Manager, Ben had great QB stats throughout the playoffs and He's not an elite QB, just above average. Meanwhile Eli doesn't do great in the postseason and (I understand Ben had a team around him), he chokes, as their team did. I'm not saying Ben would be better in Ny or Eli in Pitt, but If Eli is elite, then Ben is as well.
                          Ben would have choked that day if he was on the Giants. I'm pretty sure Unitas couldn't have done anything that day. The difference to me is they are both elite in their roles on their teams. Eli is just asked to do a whole of a lot more than Ben is, and he has been asked to do that much since being thrown in his first game in 04. Ben just started being asked to do a bit more and this is what we have seen from him so far this year. And I'm not just talking about pass attempts, also as far as manking multiple reads, calling audibles at the line, or calling the play in general at the line. I'd like to see Eli get even more control over the offense, similar to Peyton. When he does in 2 minute drills he is so much better. Now that Pitts is putting more on Ben's plate, his general intelligence and football IQ are starting to show.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                            Originally posted by Jughead10
                            Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                            Originally posted by frogstomp
                            Originally posted by Mr. Stiller
                            Originally posted by cardsalltheway
                            How did he pass all over Indy? He didn't even have 200 yards.
                            197 yards. sorry. In fact he had a great post season just a bad Superbowl..


                            AFC Wild Card Game 1/8 at Cincinnati: Had the best playoff performance of his young career…completed 14-of-19 passes for 208 yards, three TDs and a 148.7 passer-rating…did not throw an interception…three TDs set a new career high in the postseason…completed a 54-yard pass to WR Cedrick Wilson for the longest postseason completion of his career…rushed four times for three yards…

                            14/19 for 208yds, 3TDs

                            AFC Divisional Game 1/15 at Indianapolis: Improved to 3-1 in the postseason as a starting QB…completed 14-of-24 passes for 197 yards, with a long of 45…had two TD passes and a quarterback rating of 95.3…made a game-saving tackle on Nick Harper after he returned a fumble to the Colts' 42-yard line…

                            14/24 for 197yds, 2 TD passes

                            AFC Championship Game 1/22 at Denver: Completed 21-of-29 passes for 275 yards, two TDs and a 124.9 passer-rating…rushed three times for 12 yards and one TD…TD was his first career rushing TD in postseason…21 completions and 275 yards were both career highs in the postseason…

                            21/29 for 275 yds, 2 TDs

                            Those are pretty good stats for a "Game Manager"
                            Except for Denver, those all were exactly what a Game Manager does. throw a little bit so the other team can't constantly stack the box against the run. Now, if he had repeated his Denver performance, I would have believed in him. But he sucked in the Superbowl, the ONE time he can't suck. When Peyton Manning has a great game but his team still loses in the playoffs, he's a choker. When Ben has a horrible game and his team wins in spite of him, he's won his team the superbowl. :?
                            Eli chokes and all is forgiven, ben has great stats leading his team to a superbowl and he's a game manager?
                            First of all when did Eli choke in particular? Are you talking about the Panthers game? Yeah he did choke, but so did the whole team. Tiki couldn't run, the line couldn't block, and the defense couldn't stop anything. We had three street free agents starting at LB but even if we had our starters I'm not sure it would have made a difference. The whole team lost that day. No matter how bad Eli played you can't blame the loss on him. There was too much blame to go around. Even Tiki said the entire team wasn't ready to play that day.
                            You're the first person to admit that whether not it was a team effort to lose, Eli did Choke. All I was saying is everyone is Calling Eli elite, and Ben a Game Manager, Ben had great QB stats throughout the playoffs and He's not an elite QB, just above average. Meanwhile Eli doesn't do great in the postseason and (I understand Ben had a team around him), he chokes, as their team did. I'm not saying Ben would be better in Ny or Eli in Pitt, but If Eli is elite, then Ben is as well.
                            You got it right, they are both elite QB's in the making. Any team in the NFL that doesn't have a franchise QB would be very happy to take them and be Super Bowl contenders for the next decade.
                            And proud of it!!!

                            Comment


                            • Eli doesn't get a "it was his first playoff game" pass if Ben doesn't get a "it was his first SUPERBOWL" pass.

                              Sig by Hitman D.

                              Comment


                              • Ben Roethlisberger's #s in his first playoff start.

                                B. Roethlisberger 17 30 181 56.7 6.0 1 10 1 2

                                56% completion %, 181 yards, 2 INTs, 1 TD. And those numbers are generous. Anyone who actually saw the game will remember how bad he in fact played. So to say "Ben won his first playoff game and Eli lost his" is inaccurate, because Pitt won that day not because of Ben, but because of Herm Edwards, their kicker, and that defense.

                                And once again, Ben throws 30 times, has a horrible game. Of course I give him a pass on this one because it was his rookie year, but Im using this to prove that Ben played horrible his first playoff start too, yet he doesn't get knocked for it. Thats a double standard. So while we're being accused of doing the doublestandard, our accusers are turning around and doing it right back.

                                Comment

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