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  • #31
    Originally posted by njx9

    having first round picks at a position is also not indicative of talent. john elway couldn't turn marcus nash into an nfl receiver. for all of his accomplishments, steve young never turned jj stokes into a great nfl wr. dan marino couldn't help yatil green or randal hill.
    I'm in no way trying to offend you, but those names mean nothing to me. Way before my time. Also i'm not finding any statistics on "drops". I put them in qoutations because i'm not sure what exactly a drop is. If a player is triple covered and the ball skims off his finger tip? Is that a drop?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ricky bobby
      Originally posted by njx9

      having first round picks at a position is also not indicative of talent. john elway couldn't turn marcus nash into an nfl receiver. for all of his accomplishments, steve young never turned jj stokes into a great nfl wr. dan marino couldn't help yatil green or randal hill.
      I'm in no way trying to offend you, but those names mean nothing to me. Way before my time. Also i'm not finding any statistics on "drops". I put them in qoutations because i'm not sure what exactly a drop is. If a player is triple covered and the ball skims off his finger tip? Is that a drop?
      No, but when a guy gets hit square in the hands and it falls out, that's a drop.


      Originally posted by Scott Wright
      Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
      Originally posted by njx9
      do i tell you when to flip the burger?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
        Yeah, first round pick is a terrible argument for talent. Robert Gallery must be a great LT. Ryan Leaf' headin to the HOF. Mike Williams and Charles Rogers are the best WR duo in the NFL. 1st round picks do not equal good players, buddy.
        Vick's recievers are not bad. Roddy White, Jenkins and Lelie (well not really him) would flourish with a decent QB. I mean how can you run your route seriously when you know that the numbskull under center is going to try to scramble after seeing that his first read is covered?
        Now lets look at the so called "busts" and who their QB's were for the starts of their careers

        Charles Rogers and Mike Williams - had the honor of catching passes thrown by the great Joey Harrington. They were so demoralized they couldn't even play when Kitna stepped in.

        If i'm a calvin johnson or Jeff Samardjiza i amd crossing my fingers when the following teams are on the clock
        - Titans
        - Falcons
        - Dolphins

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by ricky bobby
          Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
          Yeah, first round pick is a terrible argument for talent. Robert Gallery must be a great LT. Ryan Leaf' headin to the HOF. Mike Williams and Charles Rogers are the best WR duo in the NFL. 1st round picks do not equal good players, buddy.
          Vick's recievers are not bad. Roddy White, Jenkins and Lelie (well not really him) would flourish with a decent QB. I mean how can you run your route seriously when you know that the numbskull under center is going to try to scramble after seeing that his first read is covered?
          Now lets look at the so called "busts" and who their QB's were for the starts of their careers

          Charles Rogers and Mike Williams - had the honor of catching passes thrown by the great Joey Harrington. They were so demoralized they couldn't even play when Kitna stepped in.

          If i'm a calvin johnson or Jeff Samardjiza i amd crossing my fingers when the following teams are on the clock
          - Titans
          - Falcons
          - Dolphins
          Are you for real? Well you know what, I'm gonna support my argument with stuff I know. Maybe you'll follow. Again, I don't get to see alot of Falcons games. BUT, I've seen on NFL Network stuff, he drops back, AND HE LOOKS AT MORE THAN ONE RECEIVER. I saw several instances of him looking at one guy, seeing him covered, and then throwing to an open guy. He doesn't focus on one guy all the freakin' time. And saying you're hoping you don't get picked by those teams if you're Calvin is absolutely moronic. He has Reggie freaking Ball throwing to him, every QB in the NFL is better. And Charles Rogers loves his weed, and has zero work ethic. Mike Williams, overweight, not fast enough to get separation. THEY AREN'T GOOD.


          Originally posted by Scott Wright
          Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
          Originally posted by njx9
          do i tell you when to flip the burger?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
            Originally posted by ricky bobby
            Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
            Yeah, first round pick is a terrible argument for talent. Robert Gallery must be a great LT. Ryan Leaf' headin to the HOF. Mike Williams and Charles Rogers are the best WR duo in the NFL. 1st round picks do not equal good players, buddy.
            Vick's recievers are not bad. Roddy White, Jenkins and Lelie (well not really him) would flourish with a decent QB. I mean how can you run your route seriously when you know that the numbskull under center is going to try to scramble after seeing that his first read is covered?
            Now lets look at the so called "busts" and who their QB's were for the starts of their careers

            Charles Rogers and Mike Williams - had the honor of catching passes thrown by the great Joey Harrington. They were so demoralized they couldn't even play when Kitna stepped in.

            If i'm a calvin johnson or Jeff Samardjiza i amd crossing my fingers when the following teams are on the clock
            - Titans
            - Falcons
            - Dolphins
            Are you for real? Well you know what, I'm gonna support my argument with stuff I know. Maybe you'll follow. Again, I don't get to see alot of Falcons games. BUT, I've seen on NFL Network stuff, he drops back, AND HE LOOKS AT MORE THAN ONE RECEIVER. I saw several instances of him looking at one guy, seeing him covered, and then throwing to an open guy. He doesn't focus on one guy all the freakin' time. And saying you're hoping you don't get picked by those teams if you're Calvin is absolutely moronic. He has Reggie freaking Ball throwing to him, every QB in the NFL is better. And Charles Rogers loves his weed, and has zero work ethic. Mike Williams, overweight, not fast enough to get separation. THEY AREN'T GOOD.
            I'm sick of arguing about Vick. I'm gonna let the stats speak for themselves. Nonetheless ESPN is still moronic. Jake Plummer, top ten? And when i listen to or watched ESPN a few weeks ago, all i was hearing was a QB controversy in Denver. Philip Rivers 4rth? Didn't we already go though this with Big Ben. They are only good because they have a superb surrounding cast.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by ricky bobby
              Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
              Originally posted by ricky bobby
              Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
              Yeah, first round pick is a terrible argument for talent. Robert Gallery must be a great LT. Ryan Leaf' headin to the HOF. Mike Williams and Charles Rogers are the best WR duo in the NFL. 1st round picks do not equal good players, buddy.
              Vick's recievers are not bad. Roddy White, Jenkins and Lelie (well not really him) would flourish with a decent QB. I mean how can you run your route seriously when you know that the numbskull under center is going to try to scramble after seeing that his first read is covered?
              Now lets look at the so called "busts" and who their QB's were for the starts of their careers

              Charles Rogers and Mike Williams - had the honor of catching passes thrown by the great Joey Harrington. They were so demoralized they couldn't even play when Kitna stepped in.

              If i'm a calvin johnson or Jeff Samardjiza i amd crossing my fingers when the following teams are on the clock
              - Titans
              - Falcons
              - Dolphins
              Are you for real? Well you know what, I'm gonna support my argument with stuff I know. Maybe you'll follow. Again, I don't get to see alot of Falcons games. BUT, I've seen on NFL Network stuff, he drops back, AND HE LOOKS AT MORE THAN ONE RECEIVER. I saw several instances of him looking at one guy, seeing him covered, and then throwing to an open guy. He doesn't focus on one guy all the freakin' time. And saying you're hoping you don't get picked by those teams if you're Calvin is absolutely moronic. He has Reggie freaking Ball throwing to him, every QB in the NFL is better. And Charles Rogers loves his weed, and has zero work ethic. Mike Williams, overweight, not fast enough to get separation. THEY AREN'T GOOD.
              I'm sick of arguing about Vick. I'm gonna let the stats speak for themselves. Nonetheless ESPN is still moronic. Jake Plummer, top ten? And when i listen to or watched ESPN a few weeks ago, all i was hearing was a QB controversy in Denver. Philip Rivers 4rth? Didn't we already go though this with Big Ben. They are only good because they have a superb surrounding cast.

              TOTALLY agree with the Jake Plummer thing. BRING IN CUTLER!! And I think it would be good to withhold judgement on Rivers, I haven't seen much of him, but his stats look nice, and in some games he's really stepped up and won them.


              Originally posted by Scott Wright
              Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
              Originally posted by njx9
              do i tell you when to flip the burger?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by ricky bobby
                Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
                Yeah, first round pick is a terrible argument for talent. Robert Gallery must be a great LT. Ryan Leaf' headin to the HOF. Mike Williams and Charles Rogers are the best WR duo in the NFL. 1st round picks do not equal good players, buddy.
                Vick's recievers are not bad. Roddy White, Jenkins and Lelie (well not really him) would flourish with a decent QB. I mean how can you run your route seriously when you know that the numbskull under center is going to try to scramble after seeing that his first read is covered?
                Now lets look at the so called "busts" and who their QB's were for the starts of their careers

                Charles Rogers and Mike Williams - had the honor of catching passes thrown by the great Joey Harrington. They were so demoralized they couldn't even play when Kitna stepped in.

                If i'm a calvin johnson or Jeff Samardjiza i amd crossing my fingers when the following teams are on the clock
                - Titans
                - Falcons
                - Dolphins
                Perhaps you forgot about Roy Willams and how he played under the same situations and is now the best wide reciever in his division.

                Sig by Darnik44two

                Lord Favre Is Immortal

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by 4pAc
                  Originally posted by ricky bobby
                  Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
                  Yeah, first round pick is a terrible argument for talent. Robert Gallery must be a great LT. Ryan Leaf' headin to the HOF. Mike Williams and Charles Rogers are the best WR duo in the NFL. 1st round picks do not equal good players, buddy.
                  Vick's recievers are not bad. Roddy White, Jenkins and Lelie (well not really him) would flourish with a decent QB. I mean how can you run your route seriously when you know that the numbskull under center is going to try to scramble after seeing that his first read is covered?
                  Now lets look at the so called "busts" and who their QB's were for the starts of their careers

                  Charles Rogers and Mike Williams - had the honor of catching passes thrown by the great Joey Harrington. They were so demoralized they couldn't even play when Kitna stepped in.

                  If i'm a calvin johnson or Jeff Samardjiza i amd crossing my fingers when the following teams are on the clock
                  - Titans
                  - Falcons
                  - Dolphins
                  Perhaps you forgot about Roy Willams and how he played under the same situations and is now the best wide reciever in his division.
                  I may have forgotten about him. But he didn't exactly flourish under Harrington either, he's having a great year because Mike Martz is running the greatest show of turf all over again in detroit.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Did you watch any Lions game per chance? His rookie season Roy Williams was tearing it up making highlight reels all year but only played in like 12 games and a couple of those he was about 7th on the depth chart by half time because he was playing hurt. His sophmore season he had 8 touchdowns and had pretty good stats and again didn't start all 16 games. This year he is doing the same stuff in a more wide open offense that focueses only on him on passing downs pretty much. Martz plays favorites a lot of the time, Mike Furrey anyone? Point is, Roy Williams was great with Harrington and without him. His stats aren't miraculously better now than they were before, he is also in the year labeled as the breakout or deciding year for receivers a lot of the time.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ricky bobby
                      Originally posted by njx9

                      having first round picks at a position is also not indicative of talent. john elway couldn't turn marcus nash into an nfl receiver. for all of his accomplishments, steve young never turned jj stokes into a great nfl wr. dan marino couldn't help yatil green or randal hill.
                      I'm in no way trying to offend you, but those names mean nothing to me. Way before my time. Also i'm not finding any statistics on "drops". I put them in qoutations because i'm not sure what exactly a drop is. If a player is triple covered and the ball skims off his finger tip? Is that a drop?
                      *shrug* no offense taken. they were all "high profile" wide receivers taken by teams with hall of fame quarterbacks who busted shortly thereafter. green may have been injured, i can't remember exactly, so he may be the only one you can X off there.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Matt Hasselbeck, '04 season, had "talented receivers," they also averaged about 5-6 dropped passes per game. Dropped passes, while wide open are concentration errors, it has nothing to do with physical talent, nor with the ability of the Quarterback. When you drop a pass that hits you in both of your hands, with no contact from a defensive player, that is the receivers problem.

                        49ers fans wanted Jerry Rice cut because of all of his drops, but his coaches had faith in him and he worked so much he eventually rid himself of the problem. That's what defined his career. Young receivers drop passes, some correct mistakes, some never learn.


                        Ricky Bobby; was that Joe Montana's fault as a QB for Rice's dropped passes?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Shiver
                          Matt Hasselbeck, '04 season, had "talented receivers," they also averaged about 5-6 dropped passes per game. Dropped passes, while wide open are concentration errors, it has nothing to do with physical talent, nor with the ability of the Quarterback. When you drop a pass that hits you in both of your hands, with no contact from a defensive player, that is the receivers problem.

                          49ers fans wanted Jerry Rice cut because of all of his drops, but his coaches had faith in him and he worked so much he eventually rid himself of the problem. That's what defined his career. Young receivers drop passes, some correct mistakes, some never learn.


                          Ricky Bobby; was that Joe Montana's fault as a QB for Rice's dropped passes?
                          I saw the pass that TO dropped on Romo. That was a drop. To be completely honest, i haven't seen that many Falcons games this year. But in the past the fault was not in the recievers it was in Vick taking off out of the pocket way too early. follow my reasoning.

                          1. Vick has great speed.
                          2. Defenses respect speed so instead of blitzing Vick they try to at least contain him in the pocket.
                          3. If a team doesn't blitz you and instead just tries to contain you in the pocket you have all day to throw.

                          Using logic, you would think that a QB who's legs draw so much attention from the defense would be able to make plays with his arm, But that is not the case with Vick. Therefore you can assume that Vick has a bad arm.

                          Just imagine if Tom Brady, or Peyton Manning didn't get blitzed. That would amount in 450 passing yards a game.

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                          • #43
                            Did we really need proof?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Proof that ESPN is full of numbskulls

                              Originally posted by ricky bobby
                              http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2652676

                              Summary
                              QB rankings

                              1. Peyton Manning
                              2. Tom Brady
                              3. Drew Bress

                              So far so good right? But wait it gets better

                              4. Philip Rivers - Umm yeaahhh the 4rth best in the league
                              5. Donovan McNabb
                              6. Mike Vick - If you took away his mobility, he'd be nothing.
                              7. Marc Bulger
                              8. Jake Plummer - Wasn't there a QB controversy a week ago?
                              9. Carson Palmer
                              10. Tony Romo - He's looked good in his two starts, but come on get real

                              They go on to rank all the 32 starting QBs. Asside from a couple players who deserve to be higher, ex. Eli Manning, Damon Huard, Rex Grossman, it's pretty good.

                              The sportsnation rankings are much more accurate.
                              http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sport...tranker?id=599
                              Inaccurate or not, you are in no position to be questioning other people's intelligence.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                the rankings are fine if they're for how people are playing right now. they're obviously not who is the best QB in their career.

                                Sig thanks to mockalicious

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