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  • #46
    Originally posted by JK17 View Post
    Deion Branch and Givens left too as fairly highly touted offensive players. They were productive in the Pats systemized offense but the jury is still out on how they will preform outside of NE. I'm not sure if you guys are only talking about defense though, which would make them fairly irrelevant.
    That's irrelevant to what I was saying, actually. The point is; some thing that Belichick is this genius, who can make chicken salad out of chicken -you know what-, hence why I mentioned how bad the Patriots defense was in '05, when he didn't have talent. Those receivers are a product of Tom Brady's greatness.

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    • #47
      Your metaphor didn't make sense. Anyone can make chicken salad out of chicken. I think you mean that Belichick can make chicken salad out of chicken poop...



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      • #48
        Ha, ha, wise guy.

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        • #49
          Well, you're so very rarely wrong, I wanted to be there to point it out.



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          • #50
            Originally posted by Shiver View Post
            That's irrelevant to what I was saying, actually. The point is; some thing that Belichick is this genius, who can make chicken salad out of chicken -you know what-, hence why I mentioned how bad the Patriots defense was in '05, when he didn't have talent. Those receivers are a product of Tom Brady's greatness.
            I don't think I got it wrong.

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            • #51
              I know basketball is a completely different sport than football but it's still a team concept. There was no way on God's green Earth that George Mason and coach Jim Laranaga were better than the University of Connecticuit. The Huskies had a team with 3 first round selections in that June's draft and were the #1 seed. George Mason didn't have the size or the speed to compete on paper, but due to tactics and coaching abilities of Laranaga George Mason was able to pull the upset over a team that was superior. Coaching has all to do with a team's success and talent is part of it but not the majority. The Dallas Mavericks had all the talent in the world but until Avery Johnson took over and actually coached them up they had no success prior to that. In baseball Jimmy Leyland took a team that was looked at by many has bottom of the barrell and brought them a division title and got them to the World Series. Bill Belicheck took a team led by an inexperienced 6th round selection in Tom Brady to the Super Bowl and won it becuase he put the team in situations to win without forcing Brady to be the deciding factor. The New Orleans Sainst selected #2 in the 2006 NFL Draft but due to hiring of Sean Payton and some fortunate additions to the team the Sainst made it to the NFC Championship. The roster was improved but Payton coached the Sainst up to a level where they were feared by the NFL and almost got to the Super Bowl. I could go on all day but I think thats all the evidence thats needed.


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              • #52
                By the way; I find it irritating the the rules prevent "Keep it clean and don't post anything that wouldn't fly in a PG-13 movie," yet it won't let me say a lot of things that, in fact, would "fly." That rule either needs to be reworded, or take out just F-bombs.

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                • #53
                  I think I read it wrong. You were correct in the first place. Damn you and your omniscience!!!



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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by princefielder28 View Post
                    The New Orleans Sainst selected #2 in the 2006 NFL Draft but due to hiring of Sean Payton and some fortunate additions to the team the Sainst made it to the NFC Championship. The roster was improved but Payton coached the Sainst up to a level where they were feared by the NFL and almost got to the Super Bowl. I could go on all day but I think thats all the evidence thats needed.
                    The Saints replaced Aaron Brooks with Drew Brees, got Joe Horn, and Deuce McAllister back from injuries, drafted three impact starters, and actually had a home facility. That is a lot of positive change to credit Sean Payton that much. If any example were to be given, Eric Mangini would have been more appropriate.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                      The Saints replaced Aaron Brooks with Drew Brees, got Joe Horn, and Deuce McAllister back from injuries, drafted three impact starters, and actually had a home facility. That is a lot of positive change to credit Sean Payton that much. If any example were to be given, Eric Mangini would have been more appropriate.
                      Mangini is probably a better example but the hard-nosed toughness of Payton really propelled the Saints and their organization


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                      • #56
                        Payton helped the team reinvent itself after they quit on Haslett after an impossible 2006 season. The team had a home and a home stadium, they had a fan base to play for, and they added singificant pieces to their team via the draft and free agency. Let's not forget they almost completely revamped their LB corps in the 2006 offseason. Getting Joe Horn back helped, but the development of Colston and the deployment and skills of Bush, plus McCallister's steadiness, was a huge boost. It was a combination, but the Saints weren't that bad to begin with. They had quite a bit of talent, and they added more using their draft position and cap room.



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                        • #57
                          Payton helped. I just feel Brees, Horn, McAllister, Bush, Colston, Evans, Thomas, Simoneau, Shanle, Fujita, having a home, helped more.

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                          • #58
                            This is a pretty easy question, talent.

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                            • #59
                              I think that coaching can overcome a lack of talent level, and good talent can overcome poor coaching, but come playoff time when everyone is talented if your team is not well coached you will not do well. In the regular season it can work, but I'll take the coach. Clock managment, playcalling, schemes, which player to put in where in what situation, when to rest guys, even things like penalties that are worked on in practice. Talent can overcome coaching, but eventually you'll meet a team of equal talent thats coached better and lose. Same goes for a well coached team with low talent I guess, but the well coached teams are always in games. Look at the Jets last year, one of the least talented teams in the league IMO (and I'm a Jets fan) but they didn't get blown out (except against Jax) and competed with teams with talent levels far superior to theirs (Indy, Chicago, NE). The fire they played with and their motivation must have been due to schemes and coaching in one way or another, and again the Jets were not a very talented team last year. The other nice thing about a well coached team is its easier to build a team long term, where with a talented team people will need to get paid eventually. Just a few thoughts.

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                              • #60
                                ITs a mix of the two really.But I'll take Coaching.Just look at Oaklands offense this past year.
                                "The liberator who destroys my property, is fighting to save my spirit. The teacher who clears all possessions from my path will set me free."-Tyler Durden

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