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Giants Move Kiwanuka to LB

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Shiver View Post
    It depends how they use him. There are a lot of match-up Backs and Tight Ends in the NFC East. I would worry about him, if they ask him to cover. If they use him as a Shawne Merriman type, attack the backfield on every play, I think it will work.
    Kiwi showed very good coverage ability last year for someone who was pretty much never asked to cover up until that point. 2 INTS like Number 10 said earlier. In one season with limited snaps standing up, he showed more coverage ability than Reggie Torbor has in 3 seasons.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by niel89 View Post
      i don really like it, he was a damn fine DE.

      i wonder what BBD will think
      This is a great move that we've been discussing on the Giants team board as early as last year. We've envisioned this for awhile now.

      If you look back, Ive always felt that Kiwi was actually at his best last season when he was standing up. He was more impressive as a rushbacker/lb than as a LE. He has amazing fluidity in coverage, long arms, a knack for the ball, and sure hands. He makes plays standing up, he's actually better suited at that position with his current frame. Every single time they stood him up (maybe 15 plays total), he was a playmaker. He got INTs, he got sacks, he broke up passes, he got hurries, he was a playmaker every time. This was another big reason why if you look back, Ive been pushing for a switch to a 3-4 defense for us after Strahan retires with Kiwi and Osi as rushbackers and Chase Blackburn and AP as ILBs.

      As a fulltime DE, I noticed he lacks the strength to really hack it as anything more than a situational pass rusher DE. He needs to add 20 more lbs to be a full time DE. Thats not an easy process by any means. Right here right now, he's simply not strong enough to hack it there fulltime.

      In his new role, think Julian Peterson. He'll be a rover/rushbacker type of SAM/WILL (mostly SAM) on 1st and 2nd down, and if need be, will put his hand on the dirt and rush as a DE on 3rd.

      Its also important to understand the system that we run now. With Spagnuola, expect heavy blitzing. SAM responsibilities on the TE are minimal, he'll mostly either rush or play a zone or get safety help up top in man coverage with the TE.

      We also got DeOssie in the draft, which is another versatile type player who will either back him up, or if he can hack it, maybe even play WILL can really make our front 7 very formiddable in terms of pass rush.

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      • #18
        This ought to be instersting.


        Thanks to jackalope

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        • #19
          well, considering the giants have strahan and osi, and have really no linebackers, i think this is a good move. If it pans out.


          Originally posted by mythbusta
          i love my pedestal. thats why im the mythbusta.
          who dey?

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          • #20
            It could be a good move, I'm not sure who they have in the libacking core right now.


            Thanks to jackalope

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            • #21
              Actually....now that I think of it, I see them using Kiwi much like how the Seahawks use Julian Peterson. He is athletic enough and long enough to be effective in coverage, at least more effective than any LBs we have had here in awhile.....and he will be a rush backer on passing downs.

              I also think he'll still be a DE on the depth chart should someone go down. One thing I know, Spags is going to go nuts with him.
              Originally posted by Paul
              Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
              Originally posted by Vikes99ej
              These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
              MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

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              • #22
                Kiwanuka is way too athletic to have his hand in the dirt with the rest of the hogs. He can be put to much better use. I love this move. I'm kind of wondering why we drafted Zack DeOssie if we were planning on moving Kiwanuka all along.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
                  Kiwanuka is way too athletic to have his hand in the dirt with the rest of the hogs. He can be put to much better use. I love this move. I'm kind of wondering why we drafted Zack DeOssie if we were planning on moving Kiwanuka all along.
                  We drafted DeOssie for depth and versatility. If a DE goes down I would assume Kiwi would switch back to DE and DeOssie would step in. The fact that DeOssie can long snap will only help in the future as well.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
                    Kiwanuka is way too athletic to have his hand in the dirt with the rest of the hogs. He can be put to much better use. I love this move. I'm kind of wondering why we drafted Zack DeOssie if we were planning on moving Kiwanuka all along.
                    DeOssie could maybe play WILL? He has the speed and coverage skills, its worth giving a shot during PS. Having DeOssie only makes my desire to switch to a 3-4 defense even that much larger.

                    AP and DeOssie at ILB, Osi and Kiwi at OLB. All we need is a NT and a DE and we can make the conversion, and have a scary good front 7 in a 3-4 front.

                    I would give serious thought of trading a 3rd round pick to Pittsburgh for Casey Hampton and switching to the 3-4 next year.


                    Yes, my mancrush for bringing the 3-4 back where it belongs is still large and in charge.
                    Last edited by bigbluedefense; 04-30-2007, 10:11 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                      DeOssie could maybe play WILL? He has the speed and coverage skills, its worth giving a shot during PS. Having DeOssie only makes my desire to switch to a 3-4 defense even that much larger.

                      AP and DeOssie at ILB, Osi and Kiwi at OLB. All we need is a NT and a DE and we can make the conversion, and have a scary good front 7 in a 3-4 front.

                      I would give serious thought of trading a 3rd round pick to Pittsburgh for Casey Hampton and switching to the 3-4 next year.


                      Yes, my mancrush for bringing the 3-4 back where it belongs is still large and in charge.
                      Get over it already.

                      First of all, Casey Hampton is arguabely the best NT in the entire league and nobody will depart with him for a 3rd round pick. Second of all, we don't have the defensive ends that can play in a 3-4. Third and most importantly, we don't have a defensive coordinator that runs a 3-4.

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                      • #26
                        DeOssie was not brought in to start, don't get too excited there. Could he start someday? Possibly, but he has to work on some things before that happens. I think Mitchell would play SAM before DeOssie would should Kiwi go down.
                        Originally posted by Paul
                        Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                        Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                        These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                        MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
                          Get over it already.

                          First of all, Casey Hampton is arguabely the best NT in the entire league and nobody will depart with him for a 3rd round pick. Second of all, we don't have the defensive ends that can play in a 3-4. Third and most importantly, we don't have a defensive coordinator that runs a 3-4.
                          I honestly don't think its as farfetched as some Giant fans think it is. Theres no guarantee that this coaching staff stays for another year, which is why I said a 3-4 for NEXT year (meaning 08/09 season). And there will be lots of available 3-4 coaches available if TC gets fired. The conversion is not as crazy as one would think.

                          And we do have the Ends for it. At least one end. Coffield played 3-4 End in college. Strahan if need be can man 3-4 End, he's stronger than most DTs anyway. And 3-4 DEs can be had in later rounds. The only real investment would be NT, which of course, is the main piece to the puzzle. Of course I would not favor a switch until that piece is found. Im simply throwing it out there as a future possibility. Look at the makeup of this team. Its not unrealistic to foreshadow a possible future switch.


                          In terms of the immediate future, worst case scenario is have DeOssie develop behind Kiwi as a rookie which is not a big deal at all. Ive said forever that our LB situation was blown out of proportion. We have good LBs, and with DeOssie, we have potentially a very good LB core. Whether its a 4-3 or 3-4 front for the long term future, we definately have the pieces in place in the front 7 to do damage. Its the back 4 that needs to be shored up, and we're on the right path to fixing that as well.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
                            Get over it already.

                            First of all, Casey Hampton is arguabely the best NT in the entire league and nobody will depart with him for a 3rd round pick. Second of all, we don't have the defensive ends that can play in a 3-4. Third and most importantly, we don't have a defensive coordinator that runs a 3-4.
                            I don't think it's that unrealistic. The Steelers won't be running the 3-4 past this coming season (allegedly), and while Hampton would a be a perfectly fine 4-3 NT, he wouldn't hold the same value to Pittsburgh that he did before.

                            As for the rest, I'm not sure I know the Giants well enough to say how they'd handle a 3-4 switch, but it at least appears like they have the linebackers to pull it off.

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                            • #29
                              oops sorry just needed a quote from BBD


                              Originally posted by Scott Wright
                              Don't be a stranger. Jordyzzzz would want you to stick around. ;o)

                              Touch Fuzzy, Get Dizzy

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                                Ive been pushing for a switch to a 3-4 defense for us after Strahan retires with Kiwi and Osi as rushbackers and Chase Blackburn and AP as ILBs.
                                Please. You would be pushing for the 3-4 even if the Giants had the Colts personel on D.

                                The Tampa 2 will be coming to NY in 2008 once Coughlin is fired. Accept it.

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