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My 2007 NFL Draft Thoughts

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Shiver View Post
    Actually I think most of the pro-Cutler crowd from '06, just moved unto Russell this past year. All the Leinart supporters, likewise, moved to Quinn. Basically the same debate is occurring every year, using the same arguments, just with different prospects.
    I don't think the differences are always as dynamic as it was with Leinart and Cutler. Quinn is far from Leinart, and the only real reason they are similar is because Russell still manages to have much better arm strength.

    There's always a quarterback contrversy, but it's not always the top intangible passer with a average arm vs. big armed slinger.

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    • #32
      Not always. Even if they aren't very comparable, I was still debating against the same people I was debating in '06. It was the usual suspects backing Quinn, the same ones who liked Leinart. Meanwhile a lot of the Jay Cutler conglomerate moved onto Jamarcus Russell. Both unconsciously, and naturally made up their minds.
      Last edited by Shiver; 05-01-2007, 12:23 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Shiver View Post
        Not always. But it struck me, this past year I was debating the same people, and we were recycling arguments from '06, almost verbatim.
        I think the difference however is that last year, it was Leinart with the all star cast and Cutler with the mediocre talent around him.

        This year it was Quinn with mediocre talent, and Russell with star talent.

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        • #34
          Quinn had the all-star coaching. Besides; Anthony Fasano, Maurice Stovall, Jeff Samardjiza, John Carlson, Ryan Harris, Sam Young, are all at least day-1 talents.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Shiver View Post
            Quinn had the all-star coaching. Besides; Anthony Fasano, Maurice Stovall, Jeff Samardjiza, John Carlson, Ryan Harris, Sam Young, are all at least day-1 talents.
            Russell had both his WRs taken in the 1st round.

            Quinn had no WRs even drafted (Shark would be a bust), and his RB went undrafted as well.

            Russell also ran a pro style offense remember.

            Plus, let's not forget that Russell had an all world defense, whereas Quinn shouldered the responsibility of winning games by himself.

            I think Russell rode his Bowl game hype all the way through the draft. Before that game, most didn't even have him rated #2 on their qb list. I honestly don't see the hype.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
              Russell had both his WRs taken in the 1st round.

              Quinn had no WRs even drafted (Shark would be a bust), and his RB went undrafted as well.
              Samarjiza would have been one. Stovall went in the 3rd round last year. Fasano and Carlson are both great Tight Ends.

              Russell also ran a pro style offense remember.
              Even so; he was a year behind the curve, at the least.

              Plus, let's not forget that Russell had an all world defense, whereas Quinn shouldered the responsibility of winning games by himself.
              He also faced tougher defenses, in the SEC, without the benefit of a competent running game.

              I think Russell rode his Bowl game hype all the way through the draft. Before that game, most didn't even have him rated #2 on their qb list. I honestly don't see the hype.
              I know that isn't true. Because I knew when I watched him as a Sophomore, he had otherworldly physical abilities. I've been enamored with him since the LSU/Auburn game of '05. As a Junior he put up a 7:2 TD/INT ratio, 68% completion percentage, in the SEC. He showed considerable, gradual, improvement in his game. When Tom Martinez, the QB Guru who mentored Tom Brady into what he is today, sung the praises of Russell that sold me.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                Russell had both his WRs taken in the 1st round.

                Quinn had no WRs even drafted (Shark would be a bust), and his RB went undrafted as well.

                Russell also ran a pro style offense remember.

                Plus, let's not forget that Russell had an all world defense, whereas Quinn shouldered the responsibility of winning games by himself.

                I think Russell rode his Bowl game hype all the way through the draft. Before that game, most didn't even have him rated #2 on their qb list. I honestly don't see the hype.
                Very convincing argument. It is actually very hard to argue with your points and was not like I was going to try and do so anyway since I agree with you on all of them.

                Even this year, after all the dust had settled, and Russell emerged as the #1 QB on most draft boards, I still had him ranked fairly low. As far as watching Russell in LSU games the point can be made over and over again how deficient he is when trying to lead his team to come from behind victories. The leadership just is not there for him to live up to the #1 QB drafted in the '07 Draft tag which he will have his whole career. Another reason why I do not believe he will be successful is that he was drafted by a franchise that has a mediocre at best offensive line. Quinn, as far as I'm concerned, exhibits the leadership and smarts it takes to be a very successful pro QB, especially now that he is playing behind a Cleveland Brown line that has some very good talent along it.

                I digress, however, as before the draft there were countless Russell/Quinn debates and this thread should not turn into another one.

                Beastly sig by BoneKrusher

                Super Bowl XLIV Champions
                WHO DAT!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                  Russell had both his WRs taken in the 1st round.

                  Quinn had no WRs even drafted (Shark would be a bust), and his RB went undrafted as well.

                  Russell also ran a pro style offense remember.

                  Plus, let's not forget that Russell had an all world defense, whereas Quinn shouldered the responsibility of winning games by himself.

                  I think Russell rode his Bowl game hype all the way through the draft. Before that game, most didn't even have him rated #2 on their qb list. I honestly don't see the hype.
                  I completely disagree. We talk about which receiver was drafted in which round and so on, but that really doesn't change much. Even if you think Samardjiza would've been a bust, it doesn't change the fact that he would've been a late 1st or early 2nd Round pick this year. It's been acknowledged that Russell had the better receivers. However, Quinn had the better running game and OL at Notre Dame. I don't really buy the defense argument either. The defense, or lack there of, might have put a little more pressure on Quinn to win games, but it didn't drastically affect his play. You say that Russell played in a pro style offense, but so did Quinn. You can't get more of a pro style offense than what Charlie Weis ran at Notre Dame. The thing I disagree with the most is that Russell rode the post Bowl game hype. A lot of people were surprised by Russell's emergence due to the lack of nationally televised LSU games. Our very own Scott Wright had JaMarcus Russell as the #2 QB in late November. By mid-December, Scott mocked Russell in the top 10 overall. By late December there were already grumblings that Russell could overtake Quinn as the #1 QB. The Sugar Bowl sealed the deal for Russell, but I really don't think he came out of nowhere.

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                  • #39
                    Very true, let's not sabatoge this thread into another debate.

                    I think it all comes down to your preference. I like intangibles more than physical ability. Others like physical ability and hope the guy can develop the mental side of the game. It depends on what you like. If youre a gambler, you roll the dice on physical ability.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                      Very true, let's not sabatoge this thread into another debate.

                      I think it all comes down to your preference. I like intangibles more than physical ability. Others like physical ability and hope the guy can develop the mental side of the game. It depends on what you like. If youre a gambler, you roll the dice on physical ability.
                      I just noticed the comment in your sig "Instincts>Speed". That's awesome. You and I seem to have a good deal in common as far as the type of players that we like and what we look for in a prospect.

                      Beastly sig by BoneKrusher

                      Super Bowl XLIV Champions
                      WHO DAT!

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                        Very true, let's not sabatoge this thread into another debate.

                        I think it all comes down to your preference. I like intangibles more than physical ability. Others like physical ability and hope the guy can develop the mental side of the game. It depends on what you like. If youre a gambler, you roll the dice on physical ability.
                        Bah! You just wanted to move on before I got Toonster in here.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by diabsoule View Post
                          I just noticed the comment in your sig "Instincts>Speed". That's awesome. You and I seem to have a good deal in common as far as the type of players that we like and what we look for in a prospect.
                          Definately, I like big strong guys, guys who are instinctive, leaders, study film, smart etc. To me, its more important to be smart and instinctual than fast.

                          Basically, the NE approach. Guys like Weddle, Poz, Demeco Ryans, DeOssie, Kiwanuka, Ramirez, etc.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                            Bah! You just wanted to move on before I got Toonster in here.
                            I aint scurred....

                            :)

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                            • #44
                              I've seen Toonster write an essay about why 300 wasn't a good movie!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                                I've seen Toonster write an essay about why 300 wasn't a good movie!
                                Lol, I would not doubt that at all.

                                I don't think theres anything at all that you can't have a discussion with Toon about.

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