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  • Improved pass rush:

    1) Lawson enters year two and the Niners finally have the rest of the personnel to run a 3-4, hence more opportunities for him to rush the passer. He was not "pushed around" last year-- just not asked to rush very often. SF was forced to run a 4-3 because they didn't have enough quality LBs and so Lawson had to drop back into coverage a lot. He did a nice job overall and only improved as the season went on.

    2) Signed Tully Banta-Cain from the Pats to play the other 3-4 OLB spot-- he applied pretty good pressure in New England even though he was mostly used in a "wave" role. With SF he'll get more playing time and could put up bigger numbers.

    3) Signed Michael Lewis, a solid in the box safety and blitzer.

    Those are the main additions/changes. I think mostly, it's going to be the scheme change that helps out. Also, the team added Ray McDonald in the 3rd round to play DE (and he can rush the passer a little, though in the 3-4 he'll be asked mostly to occupy OL) and the addition of Clements will force opposing QBs to hold the ball longer, giving the pass rush more time to get there.

    Any more questions?

    Comment


    • I'm still not that sold on our pass rush either. Lawson looks like better fit as a coverage LB more then your dominant 3-4 OLB pass rusher. Cain is reportedly is very overweight right now which probably will affect him from becoming a good speed rusher off the edge also.

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      • I think we're making too much out of Banta-Cain's weight. It's June and he's about 15 lbs overweight now, for crying out loud. He's got about 5 weeks to get it taken care of before training camp, and losing 3 lbs a week is very doable for a professional athlete. If he's 15 lbs overweight when camp starts, I'll be worried.

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        • Originally posted by papa burgundy View Post
          Lawson hardly ever blitzed.. I don't know where you're getting your pushed around info at.
          Even with the protection that comes from the 4-3 he was ineffective. Do you think that Lawson is suddenly going to blow up with less protection in the 3-4 as an OLB? I find that hard to believe. He is going to be taking on linemen now, not backs looking to pick up the blitz.

          The only guy who was blitzed on a regular basis was Brandon Moore.. and he had 6.5 sacks in 11 starts as a strong side linebacker out of his natural inside position that he's gonna be in as the center piece for most of the blitz packages this year.
          He got 6.5 sacks as a 4-3 OLB. Blitzing as an ILB in the 3-4 is a different concept all together because he will be taking on the interior of the line rather than backs and TE's.

          Where the improvement will come from is in the switch to the 3-4. Considering we ran a 4-3 with Bryant Young and Melvin Oliver at the ends all of last year. Adding a NT makes it possible for Manny Lawson Roderick Green Parys Haralson and Tully Banta-Cain to rush the passer more instead of dropping back in to coverage more if they were in the 4-3. But you're right that the production isn't there but on paper it does look improved..
          Sounds good in theory. But none of those guys have proven anything yet. Your counting on four guys who have no track record of being effective pass rushers suddenly blowing up to help that pass rush.

          but then again it could be the same paper that has been saying the Cardinals are a playoff team for the past couple of years. And if thats the case.. we're screwed.
          Scoreboard, bud. Just take a look at the scoreboard the last two years. That's all that needs to be said.

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          • I am sorry but if the Raiders upgrade their D-Line. They have more potential then any other team in the league.

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            • Originally posted by Phrost View Post
              I am sorry but if the Raiders upgrade their D-Line. They have more potential then any other team in the league.

              this is a NFC West Thread not the AFC west Thread :):):)

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              • Originally posted by KCJ58 View Post
                this is a NFC West Thread not the AFC west Thread :):):)
                Just had to state that lol.

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                • Originally posted by RedAttack View Post
                  Even with the protection that comes from the 4-3 he was ineffective. Do you think that Lawson is suddenly going to blow up with less protection in the 3-4 as an OLB? I find that hard to believe. He is going to be taking on linemen now, not backs looking to pick up the blitz.
                  Manny Lawson played 4-3 OLB...they don't pass rush much and he didn't. He got 2 sacks in his limited opportunities last year. He also was playing at 240lbs. He's bigger this year and will be rushing the passer alot more with his insane speed. He hasn't proven anything as a pass rusher yet, but he has proved he will be successful in the NFL as a coverage LB at very least. I'd expect 5-7 sacks from him this year, but he has the talent to explode

                  He got 6.5 sacks as a 4-3 OLB. Blitzing as an ILB in the 3-4 is a different concept all together because he will be taking on the interior of the line rather than backs and TE's.
                  Moore has done blitzing from the 3-4 alignment before (2005) and he was successful at it.

                  Sounds good in theory. But none of those guys have proven anything yet. Your counting on four guys who have no track record of being effective pass rushers suddenly blowing up to help that pass rush.
                  Roderick Green has shown himself to be a good pass rusher, he had 4.5 sacks in VERY limited action (maybe 9 games of spot duty) including 2 against Walter Jones. The reason he gets limited action is because thats about all he can do...not very good in coverage or against the run. Overall we don't have a dominant pass rusher, but alot of potential in this group. We won't have a dominant pass rush, but it will be improved.

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                  • Originally posted by RedAttack View Post



                    Scoreboard, bud. Just take a look at the scoreboard the last two years. That's all that needs to be said.
                    Look at the "scoreboard" of your sh!tty teams whole existence.

                    In the last 24 years, the Cardinals have made the playoffs once.

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                    • RedAttack:

                      I don't think you're quite grasping the different roles of a 3-4 versus a 4-3 OLB. The former is freed to rush the passer more than the latter, not the other way around as you seem to be suggesting.

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                      • What will looking at the scoreboard do for this upcoming season? This year, the Cardinals Offensive Line got worse barring a ROY season from rookie tackle Levi Brown. If the pass protection was questionable with Leonard Davis there, what do you think it'll be with him gone? Face it, there will be no more pop passes to Fitz and Boldin seeing that are secondary is improved and there will be no running game with E-James and Aarington running the rock behind that waste of space you call a line.


                        Comment


                        • Even with the protection that comes from the 4-3 he was ineffective. Do you think that Lawson is suddenly going to blow up with less protection in the 3-4 as an OLB? I find that hard to believe. He is going to be taking on linemen now, not backs looking to pick up the blitz.
                          What are you talking about? He didn't take on any blockers last year. If you're saying he was ineffective in general well that is just not true. He was very effective in coverage and chasing down running backs behind the LOS. If you're talking about as a pass rusher.. he's not ineffective. Just unproven.. for now.

                          He got 6.5 sacks as a 4-3 OLB. Blitzing as an ILB in the 3-4 is a different concept all together because he will be taking on the interior of the line rather than backs and TE's.
                          Well that's good, because in 05 he started in about 8 games at ILB in the 3-4 and had 5 sacks in his first real starting experience. And that was with Anthony friggin Adams a 6' 300lb NT in the middle not doing anything to keep blockers off Moore. So I think its safe to say he can do it.

                          Sounds good in theory. But none of those guys have proven anything yet. Your counting on four guys who have no track record of being effective pass rushers suddenly blowing up to help that pass rush.
                          What did I say? I said I know the production wasn't there. What I was saying is being in the 3-4 it will play more to the players strength with Banta-Cain Green Haralson and Lawson as opposed to rushing players who are not known to have pass rush skills or have limited pass rush skills in Young and Oliver. Again on paper it looks good, but you know how tricky those papers can be.

                          Scoreboard, bud. Just take a look at the scoreboard the last two years. That's all that needs to be said.
                          Super Bowls, bud. 5 to 0. Oh hey look.. I can play the things in the past that don't mean a damn thing about this upcoming season game too.

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                          • Originally posted by stl9erfan View Post
                            RedAttack:

                            I don't think you're quite grasping the different roles of a 3-4 versus a 4-3 OLB. The former is freed to rush the passer more than the latter, not the other way around as you seem to be suggesting.
                            I actually think that is totally debatable based on what gap(s) the DT's and DE's are called to hold on a particular play.

                            But generally, in the 3-4, the OLB will more often than not will come up against an OT.

                            In the 4-3, the OLB will most likely face a back or TE when asked to blitz (because the DE is already occupying the OT).

                            Which is the more advantagous match up for the OLB? Obviously the latter.

                            Doesn't it concern you that a guy who is suppossedly so athletic and explosive didn't show more as a pass rusher when he is facing backs and TE's on a blitz?

                            Or that Nolan didn't call Lawson to blitz more often in light of the 49ers poor pass rush?
                            Last edited by RedAttack; 06-18-2007, 05:48 AM.

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                            • Originally posted by MasterShake View Post
                              [B]Manny Lawson played 4-3 OLB...they don't pass rush much and he didn't.
                              That is really based on the scheme. But just look at other OLB's in the West, Karlos Dansby had 8 sacks and Julian Peterson had 10. So I don't think it is THAT unusual.

                              Moore has done blitzing from the 3-4 alignment before (2005) and he was successful at it.
                              You're right, I had actually forgotten about that. So I will concede on that point.

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                              • Originally posted by Frisco-9ers View Post
                                Look at the "scoreboard" of your sh!tty teams whole existence.

                                In the last 24 years, the Cardinals have made the playoffs once.
                                Talk about irrelevant. You have not beaten us for two years, pal. Until you do, you aren't sniffing an NFC West title.

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