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  • #46
    Denver's LB crew looks like it will be Gold-Williams-Holdman from defensive right to left. Gold is ok, but he's not a world beater by any means. And Warrick Holdman as a starting LB? That's not a good thing.

    Oldie but a goodie.

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    • #47
      I don't see the Raiders finishing 5-11. I see them doing a little better 6-10 7-9 range.


      Thanks to jackalope

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      • #48
        Originally posted by SubNoize View Post
        I guess you didn't read off the first page where I said Den. will will 9 games and take a wild card... I'm not saying you're horrible I just think you're overrated by some of your super homer fans... Den. has a lot of room for improvement, but it seems some of the fan base sees 12-14 wins and I think that is waaay off base with a soph. QB, a LB core that's getting shuffled, an average S core, A question mark D-line and WRs that may perform big or just hinder off wether Marshall can even be the #2. Obviously I'm not a Bronco fan but I get annoyed by how it seems this team gets played up big every year and always falls hard on it's ass in Dec. or Jan.
        Every team has the homer goggle fans. I don't see any more than 12 wins, and even getting 11-12 wins may be a stretch.
        Even in some talks people(media) are ranking the Broncos in the top 5 in the NFL and that boggles my mind personally.

        Comment


        • #49
          let's rank the top unit of each category by team...

          QB-1.I'm going to say SD here based on Philip Rivers performance last year and having Volek and Whitehurst.
          2. DEN- Cutler is promising and Ramsey is solid coming in...
          3.KC- Huard was good coming off the bench and Croyle has promise.
          4.OAK- McCown has to prove he can handle a full season again, Walter looked decent when protected but has butter fingers, Rusell warms the bench.

          RB-1.SD- LT and Neal don't need to say more..
          2.KC-LJ is a beast
          3. OAK- Give the edge to the Jordan/Rhodes duo because both when clicking are solid performer running and catching the ball.
          4.DEN- Henry is a solid starter, but I'm not sold on Mike Bell...

          WR-1.OAK- Despite the loss of Moss this group still has potential w/ Porter, Curry, Williams, Gabriel, Higgins and Morant.
          2.DEN- Walker, Marshall, Smith and Stokley could be solid.
          3.SD- Davis could shine, Jackson, Floyd, Parker.
          4.KC-Bowe, Kennison, Parker, Hannon, Gardner- solid potential...

          TE-1.SD-Gates and Manumaleuna were great last year.
          2.DEN- Graham and Schefler could do some damage.
          3.KC- Gonzalez is a still pro-bowler, Dunn blocks and Allan has potential.
          4.OAK- Miller could be a star, but's never touched the field, Stewart is a solid bloaker and you can't pencil in anybody else,wait and see who wins out.

          OL-1.SD- Hardwick, McNeil, Dielman anchor solid line.
          2. DEN- Doesn't even matter who they field, they will cut people down and get Henry to 1,000 plus.
          3.OAK- Gutsy call, but w/ the change of the scheme and shuffling Gallery and Sims and adding Carlisle and Newberry who are both ZBS experienced this line could surprise.
          4.KC-Aging and replacing Pro-Bowlers with what's left over. Waters and Wiegmann will need to step it up as leaders for some of the younger guys. Macintosh is one the only other long tnured vets.

          DL- 1.SD- Castillo, Williams and Cesaire/Olshanky are Money...
          2.OAK. Burgess and Sapp posted Double digit sacks, Terdell Sands is an up and coming run stuffer and Moses/ Huntley are young promosing talent as well.
          3.DEN- I don't like to rely on players that have never set foot on the field but Moss, Crowder and Thomas are huge improvements and inject youth into the former Brown burnouts. This unit has potential to be the best in the division if they gel.
          4.KC- Allen and Hali are solid, Mcbride will proabably rotate in with them. Tyler will start as the NT right away, and newly acquired Boone will probably play UT.

          LB- 1. SD- Merriman, Phillips, Cooper Wilhelm and Now Siler and Waters to add to depth.
          2. OAK- Kirk Morrison has been Pro-Bowl worthy and Thomas Howard had an awesome rookie Year. The opposite side will go to either Williams or Thomas but as a tandem last year they both performed well.
          3. KC- Edwards is older but still can play solid, add him on to Johnson and the newly acquired Harris and this group looks better with Bell rotating in.
          4. DEN- Williams is the only superstar here and he'll be going to the middle to replace unit leader Al Wilson. Gold will play the weakside which suits his speed, but he's average. Holdman will probably round out this group and it looks unimpressive so far.

          DB- 1.OAK- This is for the unit as a whole and OAK fields the best 4 players here with Asomugha and Washington at the corners and Huff and Stu. Routt and Bowie add decent depth at CB and Starks may or may not make the team. Bing and Frampton add good hitting S depth.
          2. DEN- Despite a weaker S core, Champ and Bly is scary on the field at the same time. Lynch is still servicable as a starter and Brandon supposedly can step in and perform. Foxworth will likely be the nickelback and he played well when asked last year.
          3. KC- Law despite aging has played younger. Jarred Page is a young up and comer who plays opposite of another youngnster in Pollard. This group should be solid.
          4. SD-this is probably the rare weak spot on this team. Jammer and Florence are a servicable tandem with Cromartie coming in. Jue and and Hart are decent with the youngster Weddle ready to step in and get some playing time away from McCree.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by SubNoize View Post
            DB- 1.OAK- This is for the unit as a whole and OAK fields the best 4 players here with Asomugha and Washington at the corners and Huff and Stu. Routt and Bowie add decent depth at CB and Starks may or may not make the team. Bing and Frampton add good hitting S depth.
            2. DEN- Despite a weaker S core, Champ and Bly is scary on the field at the same time. Lynch is still servicable as a starter and Brandon supposedly can step in and perform. Foxworth will likely be the nickelback and he played well when asked last year.
            3. KC- Law despite aging has played younger. Jarred Page is a young up and comer who plays opposite of another youngnster in Pollard. This group should be solid.
            4. SD-this is probably the rare weak spot on this team. Jammer and Florence are a servicable tandem with Cromartie coming in. Jue and and Hart are decent with the youngster Weddle ready to step in and get some playing time away from McCree.
            just nit-picking here....McCree is our best safety, and the second best player in the secondary. He had one bad play in the playoffs, that personaly I'm not even mad at him for trying to make. Weddle is going to play opposite him, not in place of him.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by SubNoize View Post
              let's rank the top unit of each category by team...

              QB-1.I'm going to say SD here based on Philip Rivers performance last year and having Volek and Whitehurst.
              2. DEN- Cutler is promising and Ramsey is solid coming in...
              3.KC- Huard was good coming off the bench and Croyle has promise.
              4.OAK- McCown has to prove he can handle a full season again, Walter looked decent when protected but has butter fingers, Rusell warms the bench.
              Agree for the most part here, pretty much anyone will agree with this right now.

              RB-1.SD- LT and Neal don't need to say more..
              2.KC-LJ is a beast
              3. OAK- Give the edge to the Jordan/Rhodes duo because both when clicking are solid performer running and catching the ball.
              4.DEN- Henry is a solid starter, but I'm not sold on Mike Bell...
              Wow, Oakland ahead of Denver? Henry and Bell will prove to be better than Jordan and Rhodes.

              WR-1.OAK- Despite the loss of Moss this group still has potential w/ Porter, Curry, Williams, Gabriel, Higgins and Morant.
              2.DEN- Walker, Marshall, Smith and Stokley could be solid.
              3.SD- Davis could shine, Jackson, Floyd, Parker.
              4.KC-Bowe, Kennison, Parker, Hannon, Gardner- solid potential...
              Wow, you rate a group of WR's where none of them have had a 1,000 receiving yards year, have injury problems and some guys who couldn't cut it on other teams ahead of Denver's? Theres more question marks for Oakland than Denver here.

              TE-1.SD-Gates and Manumaleuna were great last year.
              2.DEN- Graham and Schefler could do some damage.
              3.KC- Gonzalez is a still pro-bowler, Dunn blocks and Allan has potential.
              4.OAK- Miller could be a star, but's never touched the field, Stewart is a solid bloaker and you can't pencil in anybody else,wait and see who wins out.
              Honestly, I think you could maybe put KC at #2, and probably should at this point since Gonzalez is still a big time player and Dunn is a great blocker. Scheffler is still unproven.

              OL-1.SD- Hardwick, McNeil, Dielman anchor solid line.
              2. DEN- Doesn't even matter who they field, they will cut people down and get Henry to 1,000 plus.
              3.OAK- Gutsy call, but w/ the change of the scheme and shuffling Gallery and Sims and adding Carlisle and Newberry who are both ZBS experienced this line could surprise.
              4.KC-Aging and replacing Pro-Bowlers with what's left over. Waters and Wiegmann will need to step it up as leaders for some of the younger guys. Macintosh is one the only other long tnured vets.
              haha, KC's line is still light years ahead of Oakland. SD 1 and Denver #2 are right on. Gotta love the jab against Denver's line though

              DL- 1.SD- Castillo, Williams and Cesaire/Olshanky are Money...
              2.OAK. Burgess and Sapp posted Double digit sacks, Terdell Sands is an up and coming run stuffer and Moses/ Huntley are young promosing talent as well.
              3.DEN- I don't like to rely on players that have never set foot on the field but Moss, Crowder and Thomas are huge improvements and inject youth into the former Brown burnouts. This unit has potential to be the best in the division if they gel.
              4.KC- Allen and Hali are solid, Mcbride will proabably rotate in with them. Tyler will start as the NT right away, and newly acquired Boone will probably play UT.
              If Denver's #3 then that means they improved so I'd be happy. It'll be a fight between KC and Denver for last place IMO. SD and Oak #1-2 is right though.

              LB- 1. SD- Merriman, Phillips, Cooper Wilhelm and Now Siler and Waters to add to depth.
              2. OAK- Kirk Morrison has been Pro-Bowl worthy and Thomas Howard had an awesome rookie Year. The opposite side will go to either Williams or Thomas but as a tandem last year they both performed well.
              3. KC- Edwards is older but still can play solid, add him on to Johnson and the newly acquired Harris and this group looks better with Bell rotating in.
              4. DEN- Williams is the only superstar here and he'll be going to the middle to replace unit leader Al Wilson. Gold will play the weakside which suits his speed, but he's average. Holdman will probably round out this group and it looks unimpressive so far.
              Outside of SD, this is a weak group of LB corps IMO. I think you are underrating the LB's of Denver though.

              DB- 1.OAK- This is for the unit as a whole and OAK fields the best 4 players here with Asomugha and Washington at the corners and Huff and Stu. Routt and Bowie add decent depth at CB and Starks may or may not make the team. Bing and Frampton add good hitting S depth.
              2. DEN- Despite a weaker S core, Champ and Bly is scary on the field at the same time. Lynch is still servicable as a starter and Brandon supposedly can step in and perform. Foxworth will likely be the nickelback and he played well when asked last year.
              3. KC- Law despite aging has played younger. Jarred Page is a young up and comer who plays opposite of another youngnster in Pollard. This group should be solid.
              4. SD-this is probably the rare weak spot on this team. Jammer and Florence are a servicable tandem with Cromartie coming in. Jue and and Hart are decent with the youngster Weddle ready to step in and get some playing time away from McCree.
              Awesome, way to overrate the Raiders again. Champ & Bly > Asomugha and Washington. Huff and Stu = Lynch & Ferguson/Brandon. Denver has the edge in this category. Broncos will be starting 3 Pro Bowlers, how many will the Raiders be fielding?

              And god, I must be so bored if I'm responding to this...

              Comment


              • #52
                Interesting how the chargers are first in nearly all of those categories. It seems to always change by the end of the year though.

                Thanks to Bantx for the cool sig.
                RIP SEAN TAYLOR #21

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                • #53
                  in response to SubNoize - no way does denver have the worst rb group... were you sold on reuben droughns the year the team had over 2000 rush yds... probably not.. bell is not even a starter he will just be a backup and provide henry with breaks.. give us 3rd by a longshot...as for seconday.. just wow... Denver has the best in the league.. Champ Bailey and Dre Bly are enough to be #1, lynch is old but age is only a number so he can still perform fine.. i can tell you like the raiders over the broncos
                  Bubba kush for breakfast, with my captain crunch
                  I smoke ten blunts before lunch
                  Gucci Mane

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by ripdw27 View Post
                    as for seconday.. just wow... Denver has the best in the league.. Champ Bailey and Dre Bly are enough to be #1, lynch is old but age is only a number so he can still perform fine.. i can tell you like the raiders over the broncos

                    It isn't just Raiders fans. I too would put Oakland ahead of Denver.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by sdpads24 View Post
                      Interesting how the chargers are first in nearly all of those categories. It seems to always change by the end of the year though.
                      The Chargers have the best team, which is why they won the AFC West by five games last year. If they can't repeat (no excuse of a difficult schedule) it will be on the coaching staff, and AJ.
                      aka KGB Chicken

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by jth1331 View Post
                        Awesome, way to overrate the Raiders again. Champ & Bly > Asomugha and Washington. Huff and Stu = Lynch & Ferguson/Brandon. Denver has the edge in this category. Broncos will be starting 3 Pro Bowlers, how many will the Raiders be fielding?

                        And god, I must be so bored if I'm responding to this...
                        Bull. Lynch is overrated as hell and Ferguson/Brandon are average. I'd take Washington over Bly anyday and twice on Sundays. Bly has been overrated for the last 3 years and this year will prove no different.

                        Pro Bowls? Quick, name the last time that Bly made the Pro Bowl. Your 1st round bust Deltha O'Neal has had a more recent Pro Bowl appearance. Tory James had a Pro Bowl appearance the same year Bly made it last. Tory James Or better yet, name the last year that John Lynch actually deserved his Pro Bowl selection.

                        Nnamdi Asomugha is a top 3 CB in the league, not far behind Bailey. And Fabian Washington is better than Dre Bly. Lynch is no better than either Stuart Schweigert or Michael Huff.

                        But hey, if it makes you sleep better at night, go ahead and believe that your secondary will be better, more power to ya. You'll lose plenty of sleep thinking about Bly, Lynch and Ferguson getting burned left and right once the season comes around.

                        Oldie but a goodie.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
                          Bull. Lynch is overrated as hell and Ferguson/Brandon are average. I'd take Washington over Bly anyday and twice on Sundays. Bly has been overrated for the last 3 years and this year will prove no different.

                          Pro Bowls? Quick, name the last time that Bly made the Pro Bowl. Your 1st round bust Deltha O'Neal has had a more recent Pro Bowl appearance. Tory James had a Pro Bowl appearance the same year Bly made it last. Tory James Or better yet, name the last year that John Lynch actually deserved his Pro Bowl selection.

                          Nnamdi Asomugha is a top 3 CB in the league, not far behind Bailey. And Fabian Washington is better than Dre Bly. Lynch is no better than either Stuart Schweigert or Michael Huff.

                          But hey, if it makes you sleep better at night, go ahead and believe that your secondary will be better, more power to ya. You'll lose plenty of sleep thinking about Bly, Lynch and Ferguson getting burned left and right once the season comes around.
                          Okay, Mr. Raider fan. Go ahead and think your team has the better secondary. For this upcoming season, I'll take Denver over Oakland.
                          And also, saying Lynch isn't better than Schweigert is laughable.

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                          • #58
                            Raiders secondary is better than the Broncos I’ll think it and say it. Champ may be the best CB in the NFL but he can’t do everything, If you guys really want to believe Dre Bly and John Lynch are still pro bowl type players go right ahead.
                            Taking a Knapp.

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                            • #59
                              NJX... umm Raiders RB ranked 3rd there buddy... Yes I put the tandem of Rhodes/Jordan over Henry. Henry has had what 2 okay years, one of them being last year, allowing him to be grossly overpaid for not proving anything. Mike Bell is is nothing special, I played him in highschool, watched him in college and saw him cough it up a couple times in Denver to be replaced by Tatum Bell. i'm not underating the Den. LB core either, they're not that good! And by the way that receiver that's not hit 1,000 yards was you know the one who in the snow game in Den. torched you're "jesus" Champ for 3 TDs and over 100 yards. KCs line is a not better than Oakland's based on personnel, I'm not going by last season, Oak has a new line coach and system, where Grove and Gallery have played very wel in. As for the secondary, OAK had the #1 pass defense in the NFL, no defensive scheme changes, they will stay that way. Bly will improve Denver, but Huff is better than Brandon and Stu and Lynch are equal at this point. and more q's for Oak than Den. at WR??? okay, Smith-old and injured, Stokley-injured, Marshall-unproven 4th WR moving up, Walker-Overated would be #2 on a good 10 teams in the league. Raider Bias??? I have Denver rated over OAK in 4 catgories, again you donks fans think your team is godly... jesus christ.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by njx9
                                further, anyone who thinks denver's secondary is better is absolutely kidding themselves. john lynch abjectly sucks right now at anything other than run support and no matter who plays strong safety (ferguson, brandon, foxworth or cox), they'll be average at best.

                                otoh, NIP, arguing the pro bowl was ridiculous, moreso because in the same post where you try to call out bly for NOT having made it, you talk about lynch needing to deserve it. that's not and has never been how the pro bowl works and you know better than to quote pro bowls except to slap someone else with the 'how worthless they are' comment.
                                *sigh* I know, I was arguing against myself. The main point that I was trying to make was that JTH was saying the Broncos have 3 Pro Bowl players in their secondary when Bly hasn't made it since 2004.

                                Then I argued that Lynch hasn't deserved it in a long time. Somewhat arguing against myself it would seem, eh? I didn't really feel like bringing up the whole "Pro Bowls are worthless because....blah blah" just because I didn't want to put that effort in. I'm finding myself increasingly lazy. Bad NIP...

                                Oldie but a goodie.

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