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Is Shawne Merriman Worthy of DPOY?

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  • Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
    Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
    Originally posted by njx9
    was denver's altitude actually compared to steroids in an unfairness debate? at least it's now clear that this thread has turned into a joke.

    that is, assuming that saying steroids are "far safer" than the MEDIA makes us believe hadn't done that already.
    Care to dispute either of those two statements?
    I guess San Diego's heatand beautiful weather are cheating. I guess Lambeau field's coldness is cheating then.
    It's well known that training at altitude improves endurance (see: Kenyan distance runners) and that road teams have historically struggled with the high altitude at Mile High. I'm not complaining. It is what it is. It's just one of those built in fairness issues that we're discussing.
    aka KGB Chicken

    Comment


    • Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
      Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
      Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
      Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
      Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
      Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
      Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
      Originally posted by bearsfan_51
      That's because in sports it's better to be a coke-head than a cheater. The entire balance of sports is based on fairness, whether or not that is a myth is clearly up for debate, but that's why steroids produces a more virulent reaction than drug use. It has very little to do with the social effects.

      And the reaction to steroids in football is NOTHING compared to baseball. Mostly because football isn't nearly as statistically driven.
      Well, it is a myth. It isn't fair that the New York Yankees have an unlimited amount of resources to get the best players while the Padres are limited. It isn't fair that Denver has high altitude and road teams are at a major disadvantage. It isn't fair that Shaq is fouled much harder and more frequently than a guard in basketball.

      If people want to believe Merriman is a cheater, that's fine because it's ultimately not important. As long as he doesn't get in trouble again he'll be in the NFL and continue to perform well. Kansas City, Denver and Oakland fans really can't lecture San Diego on fairness anyway. Those teams have had every issue from steroids, cheap shots, "holy roller" plays, low blocking techniques and everything in between.
      :roll:

      Stop whining.
      Nobody's whining. The Broncos' cowardly blocking style is what it is. Just don't lecture anyone else on fairness and ethics.
      So you mean cheating, and putting harmful things in your body that not only send the wrong message to kids, but gives a player an unfair advantage, is equal to a perfectly legal and strategically benificial maneuver. Okay there, Einstein.
      Didn't the Broncos win two championships with admitted "cheater" Bill Romanowski? Are you ashamed of your two championships? Are you all for giving them back?
      Okay so we go from you trying to say cut blocking is dirty to talking about one player on the Broncos championship defense.

      Originally posted by Associate Press
      NEW YORK -- Bill Romanowski used steroids and human growth hormone supplied by Victor Conte, the former NFL linebacker tells CBS' "60 Minutes" in an interview to be broadcast Sunday.


      Romanowski


      Romanowski said he took illegal steroids for a two-year period starting in 2001 and got them from Conte, the former head of the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, which has been at the center of a steroids controversy in several sports.
      OH! WAIT A MINUTE!! He was clean when he won those super bowls. Awwww, gee.
      So he was clean because he says he was clean? Why is Romanowski credible while Merriman isn't?
      Okay. Read closely now. Romanowski already admitted to using roids for two years. Why would he lie about using them before? What would he have to gain? Also, in case you didn't know, Romanowski didn't test positive for steroids during the time period in question. Merriman did. You are speculating Romo used roids in 97-98, but he most likely did not, seeing as he admitted to using them later in his career, and if he was gonna get wet why only stick his toes in? Merriman, we know he used them, there's no denying it.


      Originally posted by Scott Wright
      Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
      Originally posted by njx9
      do i tell you when to flip the burger?

      Comment


      • He's certainly "worthy" of the award. I think the word that should be used is "eligible". Is Merriman "eligible" for DPOY.
        "Kenny Phillips has the body of Sean Taylor and the speed and knowledge of Ed Reed"

        sig by vikes99ej

        RIP Sean Taylor
        4/1/1983 - 11/27/2007

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
          Okay. Read closely now. Romanowski already admitted to using roids for two years. Why would he lie about using them before? What would he have to gain? Also, in case you didn't know, Romanowski didn't test positive for steroids during the time period in question. Merriman did. You are speculating Romo used roids in 97-98, but he most likely did not, seeing as he admitted to using them later in his career, and if he was gonna get wet why only stick his toes in? Merriman, we know he used them, there's no denying it.
          I'm not speculating anything at all. You believe Romanowski's story as easily as Chargers fans believe Merriman. Neither story is more credible than the other one. Romanowski could have easily wanted to protect the legacy of his most productive seasons.
          aka KGB Chicken

          Comment


          • Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
            Originally posted by njx9
            was denver's altitude actually compared to steroids in an unfairness debate? at least it's now clear that this thread has turned into a joke.

            that is, assuming that saying steroids are "far safer" than the MEDIA makes us believe hadn't done that already.
            Care to dispute either of those two statements?
            what's unfair about altitude? that we get better endurance? then do like the kenyans and train at bloody altitude. you've got mountains in california. actually, your highest peak is HIGHER than colorado's.

            and yes, i can hear the rebuttal "well then take steroids!!!!!1" it's funny that you would think to respond with that. altitude is not and has never been illegal. steroids, oddly, are illegal in just about every major sport i can think of. they're even illegal in real life! weird!

            steroids are seriously damaging to the liver, so much so that when prescribed by doctors, constant blood tests must be given to verify that no damage is being done. high dosages can make one more prone to blood clots, leukemia, and abnormal bleeding (if polycythemia develops). even further, symptoms of thrombophlebitis can develop, putting one at even higher risk of developing a blood clot that could lead to stroke or death. this is all from FDA fact sheets on various prescription anabolic steroids.

            edit: just wanted to provde a link to one of those sheets: http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/SAFETY/2...xandrin_PI.pdf

            Comment


            • so in your opinion if merriman is still taking illegal substances and not getting caught then that is alright with you?

              You are so disillusional its laughable. You take homerism to a new level rationalizing to yourself why steroids are okay. The question is whether he is "worthy" not whether he is eligible. If there is nothign in the rules saying he can't win it then yea he can and still might win it. But the question goes deeper to whether he is "worthy". As a sportsfan I say no. In my eyes he is not even worthy to step on the same field as a third string DE who has never seen the field but has worked his butt off to make a living and is clean.

              Do you not agree that Merriman is a coward? that he is a cheater? that he is a dishonest person and bad rolemodel? What responsibility has he taken for his actions?

              Keep rationalizing to urself. I know what the rulebook says and I know the policy. That isnt what we we are talking about. As far as the leauge is concerned if he doesnt fail again then good no more probs with him. But as far as I am concerned his career up to now is soiled.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by njx9
                Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                Originally posted by njx9
                was denver's altitude actually compared to steroids in an unfairness debate? at least it's now clear that this thread has turned into a joke.

                that is, assuming that saying steroids are "far safer" than the MEDIA makes us believe hadn't done that already.
                Care to dispute either of those two statements?
                what's unfair about altitude? that we get better endurance? then do like the kenyans and train at bloody altitude. you've got mountains in california. actually, your highest peak is HIGHER than colorado's.

                and yes, i can hear the rebuttal "well then take steroids!!!!!1" it's funny that you would think to respond with that. altitude is not and has never been illegal. steroids, oddly, are illegal in just about every major sport i can think of. they're even illegal in real life! weird!

                steroids are seriously damaging to the liver, so much so that when prescribed by doctors, constant blood tests must be given to verify that no damage is being done. high dosages can make one more prone to blood clots, leukemia, and abnormal bleeding (if polycythemia develops). even further, symptoms of thrombophlebitis can develop, putting one at even higher risk of developing a blood clot that could lead to stroke or death. this is all from FDA fact sheets on various prescription anabolic steroids.

                edit: just wanted to provde a link to one of those sheets: http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/SAFETY/2...xandrin_PI.pdf
                From my understanding and having talked to various people throughout my life in the weight training community, steroid side effects are dosage dependent like you referenced in the article. If you noticed, the exerpt you quoted contains buzz words like "more prone" and "higher risk" and in reality the risk of serious health problems from prolonged controlled steroid use is minimal.

                Real Sports had a recent segment that debunked steroid myths recently -

                http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ports+steroids

                Again, this is simply my view of steroids from my personal experiences, I'm not saying Merriman should be allowed to use steroids while he's an NFL player. I've talked to people who are users and they aren't bad people for wanting to get the optimal performance out of their bodies. I know for a fact there are Chargers fans who disagree with me here.
                aka KGB Chicken

                Comment


                • certain steroid users claim they're fine? are you kidding? certain cigarette smokers have told me that they're not unhealthy. so everyone should light up, right? please.

                  and it's a bloody medical article used for doctors who are prescribing the steroid for users, it's not a media clip that i quoted. for christ's sake. the rationalization is amazing.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by njx9
                    certain steroid users claim they're fine? are you kidding? certain cigarette smokers have told me that they're not unhealthy. so everyone should light up, right? please.

                    and it's a bloody medical article used for doctors who are prescribing the steroid for users, it's not a media clip that i quoted. for christ's sake. the rationalization is amazing.
                    Except you have study after study that have definitively linked cigarette smoking to all sorts of health problems, and few such studies have done the same for steroids.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaboli...misconceptions

                    "Another common misconception purveyed in popular culture and the media include the myth that anabolic steroids are highly dangerous and users' mortality rates are high. Anabolic steroids are used widely in the medical field without any serious health risks to users[32][33][34], and no scientific evidence has shown any long-term serious health defects from correct use of anabolic steroids. While risk of death is present in many drugs, the risk of premature death from use of anabolic steroids seems to be extremely low.[35] It is possible this myth gained popularity from claims that Lyle Alzado died from brain cancer caused by anabolic steroids. Alzado himself had claimed that his cancer was caused by anabolic steroids. However, there is no medical evidence anabolic steroids can cause brain cancer and Alzado's own doctors admitted anabolic steroids had nothing to do with his death.[36]"
                    aka KGB Chicken

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by njx9
                      certain steroid users claim they're fine? are you kidding? certain cigarette smokers have told me that they're not unhealthy. so everyone should light up, right? please.

                      and it's a bloody medical article used for doctors who are prescribing the steroid for users, it's not a media clip that i quoted. for christ's sake. the rationalization is amazing.
                      njx for once i completely and utterly agree with you.


                      As to the question of is Merrimen "worthy" Inflected Form(s): wor·thi·er; -est
                      1 a : having worth or value : ESTIMABLE b : HONORABLE, MERITORIOUS
                      2 : having sufficient worth or importance
                      - wor·thi·ly /'w&r-[th]&-lE/ adverb


                      so no Merriman isnt "worthy" either. He is not honorable or meritous.
                      Bears fan

                      Whitney Mercilus will be a better and more productive player than Shea McClellin


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                      Welcome to Project Mayhem

                      This was stolen, and I appreciate it.
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                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                        Originally posted by njx9
                        certain steroid users claim they're fine? are you kidding? certain cigarette smokers have told me that they're not unhealthy. so everyone should light up, right? please.

                        and it's a bloody medical article used for doctors who are prescribing the steroid for users, it's not a media clip that i quoted. for christ's sake. the rationalization is amazing.
                        Except you have study after study that have definitively linked cigarette smoking to all sorts of health problems, and few such studies have done the same for steroids.

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaboli...misconceptions

                        "Another common misconception purveyed in popular culture and the media include the myth that anabolic steroids are highly dangerous and users' mortality rates are high. Anabolic steroids are used widely in the medical field without any serious health risks to users[32][33][34], and no scientific evidence has shown any long-term serious health defects from correct use of anabolic steroids. While risk of death is present in many drugs, the risk of premature death from use of anabolic steroids seems to be extremely low.[35] It is possible this myth gained popularity from claims that Lyle Alzado died from brain cancer caused by anabolic steroids. Alzado himself had claimed that his cancer was caused by anabolic steroids. However, there is no medical evidence anabolic steroids can cause brain cancer and Alzado's own doctors admitted anabolic steroids had nothing to do with his death.[36]"
                        Nice. You cite an "encyclopedia" that is written by internet users. Way to back up your argment.

                        Oldie but a goodie.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by nobodyinparticular
                          Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                          Originally posted by njx9
                          certain steroid users claim they're fine? are you kidding? certain cigarette smokers have told me that they're not unhealthy. so everyone should light up, right? please.

                          and it's a bloody medical article used for doctors who are prescribing the steroid for users, it's not a media clip that i quoted. for christ's sake. the rationalization is amazing.
                          Except you have study after study that have definitively linked cigarette smoking to all sorts of health problems, and few such studies have done the same for steroids.

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaboli...misconceptions

                          "Another common misconception purveyed in popular culture and the media include the myth that anabolic steroids are highly dangerous and users' mortality rates are high. Anabolic steroids are used widely in the medical field without any serious health risks to users[32][33][34], and no scientific evidence has shown any long-term serious health defects from correct use of anabolic steroids. While risk of death is present in many drugs, the risk of premature death from use of anabolic steroids seems to be extremely low.[35] It is possible this myth gained popularity from claims that Lyle Alzado died from brain cancer caused by anabolic steroids. Alzado himself had claimed that his cancer was caused by anabolic steroids. However, there is no medical evidence anabolic steroids can cause brain cancer and Alzado's own doctors admitted anabolic steroids had nothing to do with his death.[36]"
                          Nice. You cite an "encyclopedia" that is written by internet users. Way to back up your argment.
                          One that is properly referenced 57 times :roll:

                          Don't let that stop you though.
                          aka KGB Chicken

                          Comment


                          • I pretty sure Peppers won DROY with a supplement suspension (wasn't his fault). I would vote for Merriman for DPOY.

                            Comment


                            • This thread is like walking into a dark room, banging your head against a wall turning around and repeating for 5 pages.
                              What if everyone simultaneously disobeys?
                              It aint a game if no one plays, oh.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                                Originally posted by njx9
                                certain steroid users claim they're fine? are you kidding? certain cigarette smokers have told me that they're not unhealthy. so everyone should light up, right? please.

                                and it's a bloody medical article used for doctors who are prescribing the steroid for users, it's not a media clip that i quoted. for christ's sake. the rationalization is amazing.
                                Except you have study after study that have definitively linked cigarette smoking to all sorts of health problems, and few such studies have done the same for steroids.

                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaboli...misconceptions

                                "Another common misconception purveyed in popular culture and the media include the myth that anabolic steroids are highly dangerous and users' mortality rates are high. Anabolic steroids are used widely in the medical field without any serious health risks to users[32][33][34], and no scientific evidence has shown any long-term serious health defects from correct use of anabolic steroids. While risk of death is present in many drugs, the risk of premature death from use of anabolic steroids seems to be extremely low.[35] It is possible this myth gained popularity from claims that Lyle Alzado died from brain cancer caused by anabolic steroids. Alzado himself had claimed that his cancer was caused by anabolic steroids. However, there is no medical evidence anabolic steroids can cause brain cancer and Alzado's own doctors admitted anabolic steroids had nothing to do with his death.[36]"
                                ah, good, yes, i'll take a wikipedia article over a fact sheet given to doctors who are actually prescribing the drug. fantastic.

                                and yes, some GREAT sources. one is basically an interview with arnold schwarzenegger on a german or austrian website of unverifiable veracity. one of the sources was proof that suicide is a leading killer of young adults. great. one of the actual studies was done on men within 6 years of the age of 72 ("METHODS: Thirty-two men 72 +/- 6 years of age were randomized to receive oxandrolone " - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum). that'll sure back up their use in young adults and athletes. another (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum) studied their efficacy in treating HIV+ individuals. the third article in that series (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract) actually makes no statement regarding safety of use, and instead concludes that different dosages have different effects (i.e. take less get less, take more get more).

                                the next quoted article actually followed young adult males who were taking anabolic steroids on their own. oddly, in concludes that there were a "wide array of mood disorders and substance abuse." sure sounds like a resounding recommendation of safety. the study was also over the course of a single year. hardly proof of "safety". there are then 5 links on "roid rage" which hasn't been a part of this conversation. several more on suicide, which hasn't been a part of this conversation.

                                so tell me, what part of this article am i supposed to take seriously, exactly? because absolutely none of really backs up the suggestion that steroids are completely safe in any environment.

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