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Best NFC LB Unit from Sporting News

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  • #31
    Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
    Are you kidding me?

    You've just argued yourself out of this discussion. Thomas Davis is the definition of playmaker. Rich McKay himself, who's been amazing when drafting linebackers over his career as a GM said "He's the Braylon Edwards of defensive players" when referring to the draft class of 2005.

    He's by far the best tackler on the Panthers team, he's also the best blitzing linebacker and is the best blitzing linebacker we've had for years. He ran stride for stride with reggie bush in coverage and only gave up one play when he was checked at the line of scrimmage on a crackback from Colston.

    He's been the guy who's shut Vick down the last two years and stopped him from being the play maker he is against every one else.

    Davis is not a play maker? You've never seen him play.

    Hawk and Davis are almost the exact same player, the difference between the two is that hawk has about ten pounds on Davis, but Davis runs a 4.5 forty and can actually blitz. Hell, Thomas Davis has covered slot receivers in the past. His versatility allows the Panthers to stay in their base defense even when teams come out three wide.

    He can cover, he can blitz, he uses his hands brilliantly to shed blockers and last year more than once for example against new orleans fought off a tackle to drop inside down the line and stop McAllister for a loss behind the line. He's got a nose for the ball and can trail. The kid is inexperienced and yes, he needs to learn to read play fakes and not to over pursue when chasing down players, but he's fast on his way to being a probowl player.

    Coming out scouts were comparing him to Ray Lewis and saying he's the next great linebacker.

    Hawk is known to struggle as a blitzer and can be tied up by blockers because he lacks the height most SLBs have and because he doesn't have quickness to always beat the running back to the corner.

    Davis does both those things better, the only advantage Hawk has is he's better at reading a play. Which will come to Davis in time.

    Davis, last year was more important to our defense than anyone not named Kris Jenkins, Julius Peppers or Ken Lucas.
    Ok, he was a playmaker in college, different level, different game he's in right now. His production last season as a full time starter is pretty mediocre. For being the amazing blitzer you say he is, it's surprising he got fewer sacks than the player who he is superior to in blitzing and shedding blocks. He didn't make many plays last season, which means Int.'s and sacks. He is perfectly adept at tackling, I'll give him that.

    This is complete homerism if you honestly believe that Davis is better than Hawk.

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    • #32
      Blindsite, you forget one thing, AJ Hawk is AJ Hawk. There goes your argument.

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      • #33
        Dan Morgan in 6 years: 364 Total Tackles - 265 Solo Tackles - 7 Sacks - 5 Ints

        Nick Barnett in 5years: 478 Total Tackles - 331 Solo Tackles - 8 Sacks - 7 Ints



        Thomas Davis in 2 years: 126 Total Tackles - 100 Solo Tackles - 3 Sacks - 0 Ints

        A.J. Hawk in 1 year.......: 119 Total Tackles - 82 Solo Tackles - 3.5 Sacks - 2 Ints


        Now I know stats aren't everything, but I just want to show you how rediculous you are being.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by cunningham06 View Post
          Ok, he was a playmaker in college, different level, different game he's in right now. His production last season as a full time starter is pretty mediocre. For being the amazing blitzer you say he is, it's surprising he got fewer sacks than the player who he is superior to in blitzing and shedding blocks. He didn't make many plays last season, which means Int.'s and sacks. He is perfectly adept at tackling, I'll give him that.

          This is complete homerism if you honestly believe that Davis is better than Hawk.
          You don't know much about the type for 43 Trgovac runs do you? Nor how opposing offenses attack the Panthers. You keep acting like you know my team, its clear every post you make that you don't.

          He didn't make many plays? You don't know a thing, you're looking at statistics, they don't show the story, they don't even begin to tell half of it.

          I'm used to people like you who know about AJ hawk what they've read from press clippings before he's drafted and you don't know squat about Davis because he didn't start his rookie year.

          Originally posted by GB12 View Post
          Thomas Davis in 2 years: 126 Total Tackles - 100 Solo Tackles - 3 Sacks - 0 Ints

          A.J. Hawk in 1 year.......: 119 Total Tackles - 82 Solo Tackles - 3.5 Sacks - 2 Ints

          Now I know stats aren't everything, but I just want to show you how ridiculous you are being.
          You're exactly the same, you've probably never watched a game thomas Davis played. The statistics are skewed because of the way offenses attack your team.
          Last edited by BlindSite; 05-27-2007, 11:26 PM.

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          • #35
            You do know it would be a landslide if we made this a poll, right? I'm talking your vote vs. everyone else.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
              You don't know much about the type for 43 Trgovac runs do you? Nor how opposing offenses attack the Panthers. You keep acting like you know my team, its clear every post you make that you don't.

              He didn't make many plays? You don't know a thing, you're looking at statistics, they don't show the story, they don't even begin to tell half of it.

              I'm used to people like you who know about AJ hawk what they've read from press clippings before he's drafted and you don't know squat about Davis because he didn't start his rookie year.
              Have you seen Hawk play? If you have you would realize that he actually jumps off the screen at you as a playmaker on their defense. I watched several Panthers games this season, Thomas Davis was a solid player, but not much more.

              Here is how I define playmaker: one who makes plays. What are big plays? Int's and sacks. Now since Davis didn't get many sacks and no int's what does that mean? He didn't make many plays thus is not a playmaker. I'm sure he made a lot of big tackles, but most decent players do. That's not what I'm talking about when I refer to someone as a playmaker. You can tell if someone is a playmaker or not by looking at their stats. That is one of the few places that you can use stats to actually determine something.

              There really is no ground to stand on on Davis's side in this Davis vs. Hawk debate.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by cunningham06 View Post
                Have you seen Hawk play? If you have you would realize that he actually jumps off the screen at you as a playmaker on their defense. I watched several Panthers games this season, Thomas Davis was a solid player, but not much more.

                Here is how I define playmaker: one who makes plays. What are big plays? Int's and sacks. Now since Davis didn't get many sacks and no int's what does that mean? He didn't make many plays thus is not a playmaker. I'm sure he made a lot of big tackles, but most decent players do. That's not what I'm talking about when I refer to someone as a playmaker. You can tell if someone is a playmaker or not by looking at their stats. That is one of the few places that you can use stats to actually determine something.

                There really is no ground to stand on on Davis's side in this Davis vs. Hawk debate.
                Wow, there really is no point arguing with you. By your logic Lee Evans is better than Steve Smith.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                  Wow, there really is no point arguing with you. By your logic Lee Evans is better than Steve Smith.
                  Steve Smith had an off year, in 2005 he was much better than Lee Evans.

                  What good does changing the topic to veteran vs. veteran when they have many seasons to compare when we are talking about a rookie and a second year player who was a first year LB'er. But Lee Evans is a playmaker.

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                  • #39
                    he isnt saying Lee Evans is better then Steve Smith, but if you see a LB has 6 INT and 8 sacks so to say, you can tell he is a play maker. It doesnt make a person better then another person.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Ravens1991 View Post
                      he isnt saying Lee Evans is better then Steve Smith, but if you see a LB has 6 INT and 8 sacks so to say, you can tell he is a play maker. It doesnt make a person better then another person.
                      Granted, but then that's not always the case, Deltha O'Neal had 10 INTs a year ago and he's pathetic. It means he was attacked, constantly.

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                      • #41
                        we are talking about LB not CB here. You are right about Oneal

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                        • #42
                          Which is exactly the point. If he's crap in man coverage he's going to get thrown at more, thus his chances of taking an INT are higher, if he's in zone because he can't cover man to man, much of the same. Its the same concept. Better stats don't always mean better play. If a player is attacked more they're going to have more tackles, and ints.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                            Which is exactly the point. If he's crap in man coverage he's going to get thrown at more, thus his chances of taking an INT are higher, if he's in zone because he can't cover man to man, much of the same. Its the same concept. Better stats don't always mean better play. If a player is attacked more they're going to have more tackles, and ints.
                            That's all well and good for CB's and is a large reason why before this season C-Mac didn't have that many picks, same situation with Newman, but good coverage LB's almost always have int's. Derrick Brooks, widely regarded as one of the best coverage LB's of the era has had int's in every year of his career save one.

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                            • #44
                              Indeed, but then again he plays in a cover 2 a completely different scheme.

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                              • #45
                                On the 49ers:

                                I agree that they're probably ranked a little bit too high... I'd bump both them, and the Bucs down a couple of spots and move the Packers and Panthers up... I think the Eagles are probably too low also. I'd put them closer to 10.

                                Also, the the poster questioning the Niners LB talent-- SOME 49er fans dislike Derek Smith. Others of us see him for what he is: a consistent, smart tackling machine who isn't the greatest at taking on guards, but in the modern, speed-oriented NFL, few are.

                                As another poster said, Moore is a pretty underrated guy. Well, not so much underrated as unknown. But he's put up very good stats for SF over the past two years, is big, tough and physical. Lawson, Banta-Cain, and Willis should all see significant playing time as well and have pretty good upsides. Parys Haralson, Colby Bockwoldt, and Jay Moore should all be capable backups. So while I too think the Niners LBs are rated a bit too highly, they are a talented bunch with the potential to eventually live up to their top-5 ranking, depending upon how Willis and Lawson develop.
                                Last edited by stl9erfan; 05-28-2007, 04:24 PM.

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