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Does Al Harris deserve a Pro-Bowl bid

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  • #46
    No, my current top three are Newman, Sheppard and Bly.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by njx9
      Originally posted by TitleTown088
      I cannot remember when anyone essentially said Brett favre was underrated. Maybe some people said look what he had to work with in 2005 or somthing to that extent, but it's not as out of control as many of you think. Was brett favre underrated by some of the people on here? perhaps, because some people on here acted like he was on the level of brad johnson or somtihng. Some players you might hear packer fans say were underrated were driver or kampman, but those claims have some truth behind them. Who else did packers fans say were underrated yourfavestoner? because i sure don't remember any more.
      :roll:
      i dont feel like arguing this because it's a never ending argument with you, but a lot of people on here talked about favre like he was that bad. i'll just leave it at that.

      What do the vikings and marijuana have in common? Every time you put them in a bowl
      they get smoked.

      2010-2011 Super Bowl Champions
      Hint:Not the Bears.

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      • #48
        Woodson is more deseving than Harris...

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        • #49
          Originally posted by TitleTown088
          Originally posted by njx9
          Originally posted by TitleTown088
          I cannot remember when anyone essentially said Brett favre was underrated. Maybe some people said look what he had to work with in 2005 or somthing to that extent, but it's not as out of control as many of you think. Was brett favre underrated by some of the people on here? perhaps, because some people on here acted like he was on the level of brad johnson or somtihng. Some players you might hear packer fans say were underrated were driver or kampman, but those claims have some truth behind them. Who else did packers fans say were underrated yourfavestoner? because i sure don't remember any more.
          :roll:
          i dont feel like arguing this because it's a never ending argument with you, but a lot of people on here talked about favre like he was that bad. i'll just leave it at that.
          Well, he did throw 29 interceptions last year. I'd say Favre gave his doubters plenty of reason to argue.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by TitleTown088
            Originally posted by njx9
            Originally posted by TitleTown088
            I cannot remember when anyone essentially said Brett favre was underrated. Maybe some people said look what he had to work with in 2005 or somthing to that extent, but it's not as out of control as many of you think. Was brett favre underrated by some of the people on here? perhaps, because some people on here acted like he was on the level of brad johnson or somtihng. Some players you might hear packer fans say were underrated were driver or kampman, but those claims have some truth behind them. Who else did packers fans say were underrated yourfavestoner? because i sure don't remember any more.
            :roll:
            i dont feel like arguing this because it's a never ending argument with you, but a lot of people on here talked about favre like he was that bad. i'll just leave it at that.
            He was lucky to have been compared to someone as good as Johnson was last year.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by njx9
              Originally posted by someone447
              Have you watched the games? Just about every big play was given up by the safeties or the nickleback. NOT ALL, but most. Cover 2 isn't the only defense that has safeties deep... Most of the deep passes(in the games I have seen) were either when the packers were in Cover 2 or Cover 3, and many of them were deep posts that the player ran right by either of the safeties. Then when Ahmad Carrol was still on the team he gave up about 430195783214650912340176450726346529086309259230 pass yards. Now Patrick Dendy isn't much of an upgrade. Yes, both Harris and Woodson have given up some plays, BUT SO DOES EVERY CORNERBACK!!!
              cover 2 is one of the FEW defenses in which the cornerbacks have zero deep responsibility. in cover 3, one of the corners is deep. in most variants, they have some man responsibility (again, unless you're a strict zone team, something no packers fan has suggested to this point in the season). i don't recall ahmad carroll being manned up with any team's #1 receiver, but if he was, that alone says something about al harris's ineffectiveness against a top wr. as would the fact that they apparently have to shield him and woodson from playing deep by shifting most (yes, i saw you say not all) of the responsibility off the shoulders of the cbs. it's just an extraordinarily weak argument for a player, especially right after showing that NUMEROUS #1 receivers have had big days (or big plays) against the packers secondary.
              Man you seriously need to stop talking out of your a$$. If you watched any of the Packer games you would know exactly what we are talking about. The deep passes where Harris got beat were the safties fault. It wasn't because they got beat, it was because of communication breakdowns. Like I said if you watched even one of those packer games you would know what we are talking about. Yes Harris may have gotten burnt a couple of times, but every corner has gotten beaten once or twice in this league. No one is perfect.

              I seriously do not get how someone can literally voice their opinion on this thread when they don't have a ******* clue what they are talking about. I know I am a Packer fan and there might be a little bias in me, I however do know that some of those long passes for TD's where because of communication breakdowns not because Al Harris got burnt.
              Sig Size Restriction, see rules.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Packman1957
                Originally posted by njx9
                Originally posted by someone447
                Have you watched the games? Just about every big play was given up by the safeties or the nickleback. NOT ALL, but most. Cover 2 isn't the only defense that has safeties deep... Most of the deep passes(in the games I have seen) were either when the packers were in Cover 2 or Cover 3, and many of them were deep posts that the player ran right by either of the safeties. Then when Ahmad Carrol was still on the team he gave up about 430195783214650912340176450726346529086309259230 pass yards. Now Patrick Dendy isn't much of an upgrade. Yes, both Harris and Woodson have given up some plays, BUT SO DOES EVERY CORNERBACK!!!
                cover 2 is one of the FEW defenses in which the cornerbacks have zero deep responsibility. in cover 3, one of the corners is deep. in most variants, they have some man responsibility (again, unless you're a strict zone team, something no packers fan has suggested to this point in the season). i don't recall ahmad carroll being manned up with any team's #1 receiver, but if he was, that alone says something about al harris's ineffectiveness against a top wr. as would the fact that they apparently have to shield him and woodson from playing deep by shifting most (yes, i saw you say not all) of the responsibility off the shoulders of the cbs. it's just an extraordinarily weak argument for a player, especially right after showing that NUMEROUS #1 receivers have had big days (or big plays) against the packers secondary.
                Man you seriously need to stop talking out of your a$$. If you watched any of the Packer games you would know exactly what we are talking about. The deep passes where Harris got beat were the safties fault. It wasn't because they got beat, it was because of communication breakdowns. Like I said if you watched even one of those packer games you would know what we are talking about. Yes Harris may have gotten burnt a couple of times, but every corner has gotten beaten once or twice in this league. No one is perfect.

                I seriously do not get how someone can literally voice their opinion on this thread when they don't have a *********** clue what they are talking about. I know I am a Packer fan and there might be a little bias in me, I however do know that some of those long passes for TD's where because of communication breakdowns not because Al Harris got burnt.
                a little bias? you're essentially saying that the safeties are responsible for every touchdown pass against the packers this season (except for "a couple"). horse stuff.

                you accuse me of talking out my rear end and not having a clue what i'm talking about, but all you provide to back your own opinion up is hearsay. even other packers fans are saying that harris hasn't been great this year and that he's been beat a few (i.e. more than a couple) times. i'll be waiting for either written reports or video evidence that the vast majority of those touchdowns were the fault of the safeties. until then, i'll go with common sense.

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                • #53
                  What great fun this thread will be in a few hours when Al Harris doesn't make the probowl.


                  Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

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                  • #54
                    There are three options, IMO:

                    (a) Woodson makes it and Harris gets really mad, prompting him to complain about his contract.
                    (b) Harris makes it, demands a new contract and C-Wood shows mild anger.
                    (c) Neither make it and both complain all week.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by bearsfan_51
                      What great fun this thread will be in a few hours when Al Harris doesn't make the probowl.
                      True. do I think that Harris will make the probowl, probably not. In the voting it lists stats and Woodson and various other players more interceptions and PD then harris. But I do think that Harris deserves it.

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                      • #56
                        Harris and Woodson have both played very well this year.

                        Harris can take receivers out of the game 1 on 1 but his aggressiveness causes him to get beat deep occasionally. This is where I put some of the blame on the safeties. Harris will lock down a receiver for most of the game and then finally a receiver will get a step on him and beat him deep. Unfortunately for the Packers, the safeties rarely do much in coverage and it ends up being a long gain.

                        Woodson has been a bit inconsistent until recent weeks but he's finally showing off his playmaking ability that won him the Heisman so many years ago. He's not the type of cornerback who takes receivers out of games like Harris does but he's the type who you're scared to throw at because he'll pick it off and bring it back for at touchdown. The downside to Woodson is that he'll got caught gambling at times and give up big chunks of yardage.

                        Harris and Woodson are similar in the fact that they'll both occasionally give up the big play. This is why the Packers need quality coverage safeties to take away these long gains and allow Woodson and Harris to continue to gamble because that is what they do best.

                        I don't really care about the Pro Bowl (it's a bit of a joke to me) so I don't really know if either deserve to be in it. Both Woodson and Harris are among the top cornerbacks in the NFC and I don't see any reason to replace either. Cornerback is one position where the Packers are very strong at (at least at the top) but lack depth which hurts them.

                        One more thing to note: The biggest problem with the Packers defence is communication. Most of the big plays are a result of a blown coverage assignment. This is a result of coaching and the secondary lacking a vocal leader. I would love to see Collins develop into the leader of the secondary but he doesn't seem to be making that adjustment. Therefore, the Packers may want to look at LaRon Landry in the draft, a vocal leader and great coverage safety.

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                        • #57
                          -----Why he should get in

                          -he's very respected around the NFL's. several of the NFL's elite WRs have referred to Harris as the best they have faced.

                          -he has been very solid this year in man coverage.

                          -the dreads.

                          ----why he shouldn't get it

                          -he has had a hard time in zone coverage. harder to tell who is blowing it inzone...but Harris has been involved in too many big plays to ignore.

                          -the unit he is a part of sucks balls. not nearly all his fault, but if he was THAT good, you'd think the team's defensive stats would reflect it a little more.

                          -Charles Woodson is just as good, if not better.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Moses
                            Harris and Woodson have both played very well this year.

                            Harris can take receivers out of the game 1 on 1 but his aggressiveness causes him to get beat deep occasionally. This is where I put some of the blame on the safeties. Harris will lock down a receiver for most of the game and then finally a receiver will get a step on him and beat him deep. Unfortunately for the Packers, the safeties rarely do much in coverage and it ends up being a long gain.

                            Woodson has been a bit inconsistent until recent weeks but he's finally showing off his playmaking ability that won him the Heisman so many years ago. He's not the type of cornerback who takes receivers out of games like Harris does but he's the type who you're scared to throw at because he'll pick it off and bring it back for at touchdown. The downside to Woodson is that he'll got caught gambling at times and give up big chunks of yardage.

                            Harris and Woodson are similar in the fact that they'll both occasionally give up the big play. This is why the Packers need quality coverage safeties to take away these long gains and allow Woodson and Harris to continue to gamble because that is what they do best.

                            I don't really care about the Pro Bowl (it's a bit of a joke to me) so I don't really know if either deserve to be in it. Both Woodson and Harris are among the top cornerbacks in the NFC and I don't see any reason to replace either. Cornerback is one position where the Packers are very strong at (at least at the top) but lack depth which hurts them.

                            One more thing to note: The biggest problem with the Packers defence is communication. Most of the big plays are a result of a blown coverage assignment. This is a result of coaching and the secondary lacking a vocal leader. I would love to see Collins develop into the leader of the secondary but he doesn't seem to be making that adjustment. Therefore, the Packers may want to look at LaRon Landry in the draft, a vocal leader and great coverage safety.
                            Well said.

                            But MANY, MANY, MANY, MANY of the long passes given up rest PRIMARILY on the safeties shoulders. At times Manual looks like he would be lucky to beat Ted Washington in a foot race. Not only that, the first 4-5 games the dbs had no communication. Harris or Woodson would release a receiver deep, and Manual would come up on a TE running an 10 yard crossing route, leaving the receiver with no one within 10 yards of him.

                            NJX, you can't tell me that Driver and Kampman weren't underrated. Yet again Driver is having a huge year. Kampman is leading the NFC DLine in tackles by double digits, he has 12 sacks, yet everyone outside of Packer fans thought the new contract was a mistake. People were making Favre out to be on the level of David Carr, yet there are probably 20 teams that would take him if they thought they needed a QB for a playoff run.
                            I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                            Hunter S. Thompson

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                            • #59
                              i have zero problem, fwiw, believeing that kampman was, and likely still is, underrated. driver is to an extent, although i think most people believe he's a good wide receiver.

                              the problem, the any rational packer fan has to admit (or at least see), is that earlier this season, there were several packer fans who flooded the board with threads about how certain players on the roster were SO underrated, or how they were SO much better than anyone else in the league. brett favre is a top five all-time nfl quarterback. he hasn't been vaguely close to a top 5 nfl quarterback the last two seasons. the argument could be made he's not even been top ten or fifteen, although i won't get into that.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                It's possible but I'd put Harris in a group of maybe's. The CB's in the NFC are not the best.

                                Locks, or should be locks- Newman, Sheppard

                                Maybe's- Al Harris, Ronde Barber, Walt Harris, Winfield, Woodson, Bly, Tillman, Hall.

                                Newman's been great this season, as has Sheppard so I see both of them going to the Pro Bowl, as for the maybe's I just put in Winfield and Bly because they always have good seasons but I don't see them going. Ronde's been a beast against the run but isn't racking up the int's like he usually does.

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