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HINDSIGHT 20/20 HOUSTON TEXANS Do-OVER 2006 DRAFT

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  • Originally posted by Shiver
    Originally posted by SterlingSharpe
    Anytime you can get a special offensive skill player, you gotta take them. Gotta. Vince and Reggie are SPECIAL, as they proved in college for 2 years and showed right away this season in the NFL. DIFFERENCE MAKERS.
    Everyone agrees that defenses wins championships. But now you think that it's inexcusable to pass up a slot receiver/3rd down back? Sorry but that doesn't make sense.
    Even if you could make Mario into Peppers, HOW FAR IS DAVID CARR gonna drive that team?

    How many more years?
    Vince Young was meant to go to the Texans, and someone there ruined it. I think he was fired or forced out after that draft too.... something doesn't smell right about that whole deal to me.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ChrisCybulski
      Originally posted by soybean
      Originally posted by Shiver
      Originally posted by SterlingSharpe
      Anytime you can get a special offensive skill player, you gotta take them. Gotta. Vince and Reggie are SPECIAL, as they proved in college for 2 years and showed right away this season in the NFL. DIFFERENCE MAKERS.
      Everyone agrees that defenses wins championships. But now you think that it's inexcusable to pass up a slot receiver/3rd down back? Sorry but that doesn't make sense.
      except the 2000 rams. That's what i think the colts are trying to running their game plan off of.

      I think the Rams had a top 5 defense that year.
      Um yea, St. Louis had a top 10 defense that year and they got a ton of takeaways as well (a defense coached by Lovie Smith). 8)


      Another sig courtesy of BoneKrusher

      Originally posted by JBCX
      Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by njx9
        Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
        I just want to point out though, that a defense wins a championship by playing as a collective unit. One defensive player does not make a defense, it's about finding a group of players to fit your scheme. If a defensive end was the most important position on the field, then Deacon Jones would be considered the greatest football player to ever live.
        i'm sure you see how this could easily be swapped out with offense. great quarterbacks don't guarantee championships. ask marino. great running backs definitely don't. ask payton why he finally won one. or sayers why he didn't. or jim brown for that matter. or, if you'd like to get current, ask LT where his is.

        bottom line, i don't buy for one second that anyone can succesfully make the argument that DE is a less important position than, say, RB or that it should necessarily be drafted any lower.
        Fair enough mr moderator. Reggie White was the greatest ever.

        Anyway, that all being said; who was better ON THE FIELD then as a player in college?
        Reggie Bush, Vince Young, or Mario Williams? Mario was 4th in voting for ACC defensive player of the year. FOURTH. In his CONFERENCE. This is another CLASSIC case of a GM/Scout overrating size and speed in a testing facility compared to actual PERFORMANCE ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD.... you can have POTENTIAL, give me PERFORMANCE.

        Comment


        • do you mean like bush's running performance? or vince young's astounding passing numbers at the pro level?

          or again, maybe you believe ty detmer was the best quarterback prospect ever? or that jay cutler shouldn't have been drafted?

          your argument is ridiculous. by your reasoning, all-americans and all conference teams should be drafted before anyone else, regardless of any on field performance. do you actually believe troy smith should be selected first overall? i mean, he was the BEST college football player in the nation.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by njx9
            Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
            I just want to point out though, that a defense wins a championship by playing as a collective unit. One defensive player does not make a defense, it's about finding a group of players to fit your scheme. If a defensive end was the most important position on the field, then Deacon Jones would be considered the greatest football player to ever live.
            i'm sure you see how this could easily be swapped out with offense. great quarterbacks don't guarantee championships. ask marino. great running backs definitely don't. ask payton why he finally won one. or sayers why he didn't. or jim brown for that matter. or, if you'd like to get current, ask LT where his is.

            bottom line, i don't buy for one second that anyone can succesfully make the argument that DE is a less important position than, say, RB or that it should necessarily be drafted any lower.
            But most would agree QB is a more important position. And I would rather have Reggie Bush on my team than Mario Williams, that's just the way I feel about the two guys after watching them in college. I just think Bush is flat out better and would have helped Houston win more this year and in the future than Williams can. I'm not arguing that offense is more important than defense. It's not.
            aka KGB Chicken

            Comment


            • Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
              But most would agree QB is a more important position.
              the ravens wouldn't. i'm not really sure the steelers would. i'm not entirely sure the bucs would, although they might've made a weak case.

              And I would rather have Reggie Bush on my team than Mario Williams, that's just the way I feel about the two guys after watching them in college.
              i believe this thread had to do with hindsight, suggesting that the evaluation would be made after a year of NFL ball? in which case i don't believe you could convince me that mario williams was less valuable to the texans than bush was to the saints, moreso considering that the texans had far more holes than the saints did. i can agree to disagree, but i don't understand that argument at all.

              I just think Bush is flat out better and would have helped Houston win more this year
              sorry to snip, but the rest is conjecture and an "yes he will!" "no he won't!" argument would get boring quickly. how, exactly, would reggie bush have helped houston more this year? do you honestly believe demeco ryans would've made ANY plays with the texans d-line without williams? i'm interested as to why and how.

              I'm not arguing that offense is more important than defense. It's not.
              well, we agree on something.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by njx9
                Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                But most would agree QB is a more important position.
                the ravens wouldn't. i'm not really sure the steelers would. i'm not entirely sure the bucs would, although they might've made a weak case.

                And I would rather have Reggie Bush on my team than Mario Williams, that's just the way I feel about the two guys after watching them in college.
                i believe this thread had to do with hindsight, suggesting that the evaluation would be made after a year of NFL ball? in which case i don't believe you could convince me that mario williams was less valuable to the texans than bush was to the saints, moreso considering that the texans had far more holes than the saints did. i can agree to disagree, but i don't understand that argument at all.

                I just think Bush is flat out better and would have helped Houston win more this year
                sorry to snip, but the rest is conjecture and an "yes he will!" "no he won't!" argument would get boring quickly. how, exactly, would reggie bush have helped houston more this year? do you honestly believe demeco ryans would've made ANY plays with the texans d-line without williams? i'm interested as to why and how.

                I'm not arguing that offense is more important than defense. It's not.
                well, we agree on something.

                Why wouldnt the Ravens agree? Is it a cooincidence that they had their best record in franchise history when they finally acquired a consistent veteran QB? Do you really think the Steelers win last year without Roethlisberger? He was outstanding in the first three rounds of the playoffs last year; there is a reason why they couldn't win with Kordell Stewart. Besides, those teams create more pressure with their linebackers anyway, they don't rely on a 4 man rush.

                Houston needs more playmakers, both on the ground and in the passing game. Bush helps you in both areas and so does Young. Would Ryans have made as big of an impact without Williams? I really don't know. Did Williams really command that much attention to where all the credit given to Ryans should go to Williams? I'm not sure. In the (admittedly few) Texans games that I watched, that didn't appear to be the case. I did however notice that their offensive line had improved over years past, but could generate no big plays.
                aka KGB Chicken

                Comment


                • Originally posted by njx9
                  Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                  I just want to point out though, that a defense wins a championship by playing as a collective unit. One defensive player does not make a defense, it's about finding a group of players to fit your scheme. If a defensive end was the most important position on the field, then Deacon Jones would be considered the greatest football player to ever live.
                  i'm sure you see how this could easily be swapped out with offense. great quarterbacks don't guarantee championships. ask marino. great running backs definitely don't. ask payton why he finally won one. or sayers why he didn't. or jim brown for that matter. or, if you'd like to get current, ask LT where his is.

                  bottom line, i don't buy for one second that anyone can succesfully make the argument that DE is a less important position than, say, RB or that it should necessarily be drafted any lower.
                  Ok Mr. football genius. Jim Brown did win a championship. He just was never able to get that Super Bowl ring. Wonder why that was? :roll:

                  And I would love to see anyone ask Payton why he finally got one. I know where someone can get a million dollars (courtesy of the Amazing Randy) if anyone can prove they can ask Payton why he finally got one. :roll:

                  You got pwned yet again.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by eacantdraft
                    Originally posted by njx9
                    Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                    I just want to point out though, that a defense wins a championship by playing as a collective unit. One defensive player does not make a defense, it's about finding a group of players to fit your scheme. If a defensive end was the most important position on the field, then Deacon Jones would be considered the greatest football player to ever live.
                    i'm sure you see how this could easily be swapped out with offense. great quarterbacks don't guarantee championships. ask marino. great running backs definitely don't. ask payton why he finally won one. or sayers why he didn't. or jim brown for that matter. or, if you'd like to get current, ask LT where his is.

                    bottom line, i don't buy for one second that anyone can succesfully make the argument that DE is a less important position than, say, RB or that it should necessarily be drafted any lower.
                    Ok Mr. football genius. Jim Brown did win a championship. He just was never able to get that Super Bowl ring. Wonder why that was? :roll:

                    And I would love to see anyone ask Payton why he finally got one. I know where someone can get a million dollars (courtesy of the Amazing Randy) if anyone can prove they can ask Payton why he finally got one. :roll:

                    You got pwned yet again.
                    Dude, you proved nothing, and just made yourself look like an ass.
                    EDIT: my bad I forgot to add a :roll:

                    Originally posted by Crazy_Chris
                    It's just a ******* dog By Michael Vick
                    Check out the Dailyer Nebraskan
                    http://www.dailyernebraskan.com
                    421 Witness
                    756*

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by jag
                      Originally posted by eacantdraft
                      Originally posted by njx9
                      Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                      I just want to point out though, that a defense wins a championship by playing as a collective unit. One defensive player does not make a defense, it's about finding a group of players to fit your scheme. If a defensive end was the most important position on the field, then Deacon Jones would be considered the greatest football player to ever live.
                      i'm sure you see how this could easily be swapped out with offense. great quarterbacks don't guarantee championships. ask marino. great running backs definitely don't. ask payton why he finally won one. or sayers why he didn't. or jim brown for that matter. or, if you'd like to get current, ask LT where his is.

                      bottom line, i don't buy for one second that anyone can succesfully make the argument that DE is a less important position than, say, RB or that it should necessarily be drafted any lower.
                      Ok Mr. football genius. Jim Brown did win a championship. He just was never able to get that Super Bowl ring. Wonder why that was? :roll:

                      And I would love to see anyone ask Payton why he finally got one. I know where someone can get a million dollars (courtesy of the Amazing Randy) if anyone can prove they can ask Payton why he finally got one. :roll:

                      You got pwned yet again.
                      Dude, you proved nothing, and just made yourself look like an ass.
                      EDIT: my bad I forgot to add a :roll:
                      What did I need to prove? I'm not the ass who said Jim Brown didn't win a championship or thought I could ask Walter Payton why he finally won a championship.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                        Originally posted by njx9
                        Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                        But most would agree QB is a more important position.
                        the ravens wouldn't. i'm not really sure the steelers would. i'm not entirely sure the bucs would, although they might've made a weak case.

                        And I would rather have Reggie Bush on my team than Mario Williams, that's just the way I feel about the two guys after watching them in college.
                        i believe this thread had to do with hindsight, suggesting that the evaluation would be made after a year of NFL ball? in which case i don't believe you could convince me that mario williams was less valuable to the texans than bush was to the saints, moreso considering that the texans had far more holes than the saints did. i can agree to disagree, but i don't understand that argument at all.

                        I just think Bush is flat out better and would have helped Houston win more this year
                        sorry to snip, but the rest is conjecture and an "yes he will!" "no he won't!" argument would get boring quickly. how, exactly, would reggie bush have helped houston more this year? do you honestly believe demeco ryans would've made ANY plays with the texans d-line without williams? i'm interested as to why and how.

                        I'm not arguing that offense is more important than defense. It's not.
                        well, we agree on something.

                        Why wouldnt the Ravens agree? Is it a cooincidence that they had their best record in franchise history when they finally acquired a consistent veteran QB? Do you really think the Steelers win last year without Roethlisberger? He was outstanding in the first three rounds of the playoffs last year; there is a reason why they couldn't win with Kordell Stewart. Besides, those teams create more pressure with their linebackers anyway, they don't rely on a 4 man rush.

                        Houston needs more playmakers, both on the ground and in the passing game. Bush helps you in both areas and so does Young. Would Ryans have made as big of an impact without Williams? I really don't know. Did Williams really command that much attention to where all the credit given to Ryans should go to Williams? I'm not sure. In the (admittedly few) Texans games that I watched, that didn't appear to be the case. I did however notice that their offensive line had improved over years past, but could generate no big plays.
                        njx9 is an Eli fangirl. They don't like it when other QB's of their draft class have a better career than their dreamboat. That is why they try to put down other players who are better than their boy.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by eacantdraft
                          Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                          Originally posted by njx9
                          Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                          But most would agree QB is a more important position.
                          the ravens wouldn't. i'm not really sure the steelers would. i'm not entirely sure the bucs would, although they might've made a weak case.

                          And I would rather have Reggie Bush on my team than Mario Williams, that's just the way I feel about the two guys after watching them in college.
                          i believe this thread had to do with hindsight, suggesting that the evaluation would be made after a year of NFL ball? in which case i don't believe you could convince me that mario williams was less valuable to the texans than bush was to the saints, moreso considering that the texans had far more holes than the saints did. i can agree to disagree, but i don't understand that argument at all.

                          I just think Bush is flat out better and would have helped Houston win more this year
                          sorry to snip, but the rest is conjecture and an "yes he will!" "no he won't!" argument would get boring quickly. how, exactly, would reggie bush have helped houston more this year? do you honestly believe demeco ryans would've made ANY plays with the texans d-line without williams? i'm interested as to why and how.

                          I'm not arguing that offense is more important than defense. It's not.
                          well, we agree on something.

                          Why wouldnt the Ravens agree? Is it a cooincidence that they had their best record in franchise history when they finally acquired a consistent veteran QB? Do you really think the Steelers win last year without Roethlisberger? He was outstanding in the first three rounds of the playoffs last year; there is a reason why they couldn't win with Kordell Stewart. Besides, those teams create more pressure with their linebackers anyway, they don't rely on a 4 man rush.

                          Houston needs more playmakers, both on the ground and in the passing game. Bush helps you in both areas and so does Young. Would Ryans have made as big of an impact without Williams? I really don't know. Did Williams really command that much attention to where all the credit given to Ryans should go to Williams? I'm not sure. In the (admittedly few) Texans games that I watched, that didn't appear to be the case. I did however notice that their offensive line had improved over years past, but could generate no big plays.
                          njx9 is an Eli fangirl. They don't like it when other QB's of their draft class have a better career than their dreamboat. That is why they try to put down other players who are better than their boy.
                          Yeah, njx is a crazy, delusional Giants homer.


                          Originally posted by Scott Wright
                          Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
                          Originally posted by njx9
                          do i tell you when to flip the burger?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by eacantdraft
                            Ok Mr. football genius. Jim Brown did win a championship. He just was never able to get that Super Bowl ring. Wonder why that was? :roll:
                            1964 the browns won the pre-merger NFL championship. but i thought jim brown was the best running back ever, and if running back is the single most important football position on the team, he should've carried them to a championship every year? right?

                            further, were you able to, you know, process written words, you would've realized the word i used was "championships" thus, trying to imply i'm an idiot for asking why he didn't win a super bowl isn't really meaningful and simply makes you look illiterate.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by eacantdraft
                              njx9 is an Eli fangirl. They don't like it when other QB's of their draft class have a better career than their dreamboat. That is why they try to put down other players who are better than their boy.
                              what in the hell does that have to do with a conversation about mario williams? i'll even ignore that the comment itself was wrong, and we'll simply address the fact that it was completely irrelevant to the conversation at hand and is yet more evidence of your complete infatuation with a quarterback whose name you feel obligated to drag into every single thread.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                                Why wouldnt the Ravens agree? Is it a cooincidence that they had their best record in franchise history when they finally acquired a consistent veteran QB?
                                you're saying trent dilfer had a big part in their super bowl victory? maybe, but in his 9 games in 2000, he was pretty mediocre.

                                Do you really think the Steelers win last year without Roethlisberger? He was outstanding in the first three rounds of the playoffs last year; there is a reason why they couldn't win with Kordell Stewart.
                                do i think they win without him going 9/21 with 2 ints? yeah, i think they probably could've managed to give the ball to bettis and parker all game. perhaps the difference there was parker? or maybe it was polamalu?

                                Besides, those teams create more pressure with their linebackers anyway, they don't rely on a 4 man rush.
                                this year's ravens actually generated more sacks from their defensive line. i would be interested in seeing numbers from some of those other systems if you have them.

                                Houston needs more playmakers, both on the ground and in the passing game. Bush helps you in both areas and so does Young.
                                as far as i could tell, houston needed talent across the board. how did baltimore and tampa build their team for their super bowls again? how many "playmakers" has new england had on offense this decade? how many super bowls did uber-playmaker Terrell Owens win?

                                Would Ryans have made as big of an impact without Williams? I really don't know. Did Williams really command that much attention to where all the credit given to Ryans should go to Williams? I'm not sure. In the (admittedly few) Texans games that I watched, that didn't appear to be the case. I did however notice that their offensive line had improved over years past, but could generate no big plays.
                                *shrug* most of that isn't really worth arguing for reasons previously stated in this thread, but they bear thinking about. their offensive line improved but david carr (from what i saw) failed completely to bother looking downfield. ever.

                                here's the point: as of right now, i don't believe for one second that anyone can make a convincing argument (as demonstrated so far) for vince young or reggie bush over mario. in 2 years that may completely change and i'll line up to eat crow. but as of right this minute, i don't buy that either reggie bush's mediocre rushing numbers or vince young's mediocre passing numbers can be said to be obviously or even vaguely better than the effect mario williams appeared to have on the defensive unit.

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