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  • JT Jag
    replied
    It's a bit of both.

    Understand that the quality of the offensive line and the coaching will be the primary driving factor in the quality of the blocking, or the lack thereof.

    However, every time a player drops back to pass is another time that he could get sacked.

    A team with just as bad an offensive line as another that passes the ball half as much as the other, with all things being equal, will logically have half as many sacks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Prowler
    replied
    technically if you're doing the 'all things being equal' stipulation...then if peyton manning drops back 3000 times, he's going to be sacked more than if he dropped back 3 times....which still proves nothing but that point should be correct

    Leave a comment:


  • jkpigskin
    replied
    Originally posted by jackalope
    obviously if you pass more the odds are your sacks will be higher. however it's not always gonna be true. their are a lot of other variables.

    such as oline, and tendancies to hold onto the ball..

    guys like culpepper and vick hang on to the ball way to long...

    Leave a comment:


  • TacticaLion
    replied
    Originally posted by jackalope
    obviously if you pass more the odds are your sacks will be higher. however it's not always gonna be true. their are a lot of other variables.
    My point exactly.

    Of COURSE doing something more increases the odds, but "draftguru" made this statement:
    Originally posted by draftguru151
    If a QB throws more passes he will be sacked more, that's just plain common sense.
    That is a false statement.

    Leave a comment:


  • jackalope
    replied
    obviously if you pass more the odds are your sacks will be higher. however it's not always gonna be true. their are a lot of other variables.

    Leave a comment:


  • TacticaLion
    replied
    Originally posted by draftguru151
    The original poster made the question sound completely different.
    Did I? Lets see...
    Originally posted by draftguru151
    If a QB throws more passes he will be sacked more, that's just plain common sense.
    No, it is not just "plain common sense". If a QB throws more, he has the POTENTIAL to be sacked more... you keep saying "he will be sacked more", and it just isnt true. You're making it a fact, and it isnt a fact.

    It has a lot to do with other factors.

    The only way a QB will NEVER get sacked is if he NEVER passes the ball. No team in the history of the NFL has gone a full 16 games without attempting a pass, and there's a good chance it wont happen in the future. A QB can throw 500 times in a season and never be sacked, while another QB throws once and get sacked during his only attempt. You CAN NOT make it a fact... you CAN NOT say "if a QB throws more passes he will be sacked more"... because it IS NOT TRUE. You make hypothetical situations, and i've given you one there (in bold). If you bring real life situations into it, i've already proved it.
    Originally posted by draftguru151
    If a QB throws more passes he will be sacked more, that's just plain common sense.
    That's the argument both you and "baronzeus" were trying to make, and it isnt true.

    Originally posted by draftguru151
    The original poster made the question sound completely different. It is if everything is the same except the QB throws more in one and less in the other. Same OL, same QB, same offense, same WR, same everything, except one throws 40 times and one throws 30. It is quite obvious the guy who throws 40 times will be sacked more often.
    Here... i'll give you an example.

    You're suggesting that if both situations are exactly the same. Lets take a quarter. You're basically saying this:

    "If I flip a quarter 10 times, and if I flip a quarter 20 times, i'll get more tails with 20 flips than 10 flips." And it isnt true. You can flip 20 times and get all heads, and flip 10 times and get all tails. Sure, the chance is 50/50, but it doesn't always maintain a 50/50 percentage. The CHANCE is the same, but the OUTCOME isnt an exact amount.

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  • MaxV
    replied
    Originally posted by draftguru151
    The original poster made the question sound completely different. It is if everything is the same except the QB throws more in one and less in the other. Same OL, same QB, same offense, same WR, same everything, except one throws 40 times and one throws 30. It is quite obvious the guy who throws 40 times will be sacked more often.
    Well off-course. But I don't think that was his question.

    Leave a comment:


  • draftguru151
    replied
    The original poster made the question sound completely different. It is if everything is the same except the QB throws more in one and less in the other. Same OL, same QB, same offense, same WR, same everything, except one throws 40 times and one throws 30. It is quite obvious the guy who throws 40 times will be sacked more often.

    Leave a comment:


  • MaxV
    replied
    The number of sacks has A LOT to do with the play of the O-Line and the ability of the QB to make a decision quickly and get rid of the ball guickly.

    Peyton, Brees and Favre all get rid of the ball very quickly.

    Guys like Culpepper, Vick and Walter hold on to the ball WAY too long.

    Leave a comment:


  • draftguru151
    replied
    If a QB throws more passes he will be sacked more, that's just plain common sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tubby
    replied
    Its both. No matter how bad your O-line is, if you dont pass you dont get sacked.

    Leave a comment:


  • NGSeiler
    replied
    Originally posted by yodachu
    Bulger's were due to the O-Line being dip-shits for a few weeks.
    Only a few weeks?

    Leave a comment:


  • baronzeus
    replied
    You misconstrued what I said.

    My claim was that in identical situations, QBs that pass more will be sacked more. You said you "don't want to deal" with hypothetical situations, then made this poll to prove something.

    When you pass more, the D line has more chances at you, and your offense is more predictable, and so you get sacked more. It sucks but that's the way it is. Some people get away with it (Manning) by having amazing O-lines or running lots of screen play/short passes to keep the defense on its heels.


    And yes, I think a better/smarter quarterback will be sacked less, in general.

    Leave a comment:


  • San Diego Chicken
    replied
    The style of offense is also a factor. Favre has lots of pass attempts and he doesn't have better than an average line, but since it's a west coast offense with a ton of three step drops, he is rarely sacked. Compare that with Kitna who runs Martz's offense, where every pass play is a seven step drop.

    Leave a comment:


  • Namy
    replied
    There's more than one factor for a sack.

    Passing more will up the chances of being sacked

    Having a crappy OLine will guarantee being sacked more often (Put Manning behind the Raiders OLine)

    A non-mobile QB will be sacked more (Bledsoe vs. Romo)

    Tendency of the QB (Plummer would rather throw the pick than take the sack)

    And give credit to the defensive team that generates the sacks

    Leave a comment:

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