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  • #31
    Ok heres my thoughts. The talent of the QB is a part of how many times they will be sacked.. But DG is right in saying "the more you pass...." because, Peyton Manning gets sacked however many times throwing the ball 30 times a game. Now, if he throws the ball 40 times a game he WILL be sacked more than if he threw it 30 times.

    You can't compare QB's because the talent is diffrent.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by jag
      Ok heres my thoughts. The talent of the QB is a part of how many times they will be sacked.. But DG is right in saying "the more you pass...." because, Peyton Manning gets sacked however many times throwing the ball 30 times a game. Now, if he throws the ball 40 times a game he WILL be sacked more than if he threw it 30 times.

      You can't compare QB's because the talent is diffrent.
      Ok. To put this to rest, read this. This whole thing started with this statement made by "baronzeus".
      Originally posted by baronzeus
      And given that Kitna threw the second most passes in the league (around 600 whereas the raiders threw about 450 times) he's expected to be sacked the (second) most.
      I found a HUGE flaw in that statement, considering the overall number of attempts does NOT match the overall number of sacks. Then, "draftguru" made the following statement:
      Originally posted by draftguru151
      If a QB throws more passes he will be sacked more, that's just plain common sense.
      Which is incorrect.

      If Kitna is expected to be sacked the (second) most because he threw the second most passes in the league, shouldn't the QB that threw the MOST passes get sacked MOST in the league (using that logic)? The following research is provided:

      QBs - Most Passing Attempts
      1. Brett Favre - 613
      2. Jon Kitna - 596
      3. Marc Bulger - 588
      4. Peyton Manning - 557
      5. Drew Brees - 554

      QBs - Most Times Sacked
      1. Jon Kitna - 63
      2. Marc Bulger - 49
      3. J.P. Losman - 47
      4. Ben Roethlisberger - 46
      5. Andrew Walter - 46

      Using his logic, How did Peyton Manning and Drew Brees pass more than J.P. Losman, Big Ben and Walter and get sacked less?

      Which was my exact point, from the start to now: a QB that passes more will not necessarily get sacked more than another QB. It gives him the CHANCE to get sacked more, but it wont necessarily happen. And why not?

      Answer this, and you'll see my point: why isnt Brett Favre one of the most sacked QBs of the year?

      (If you can answer that question with ANY response, you've proven my point.)
      Left NFLDC: 20080918.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by baronzeus
        And given that Kitna threw the second most passes in the league (around 600 whereas the raiders threw about 450 times) he's expected to be sacked the (second) most.
        you missed a key word. the original quote doesn't say he WOULD be, just that he would be EXPECTED to be. this is a reasonable assertion. saying he HAS to be is not. you're apparently arguing two different things, one is true (that A does not result in B always) the other is not (that A would be more likely to result in B).

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        • #34
          This is just like do WR's that get the ball most drop the most passes, well yah they do becaus ethey get the most opportunites but somone should figure out the percentage of QB's that get sacked out of every pass attempted

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          • #35
            Originally posted by njx9
            Originally posted by baronzeus
            And given that Kitna threw the second most passes in the league (around 600 whereas the raiders threw about 450 times) he's expected to be sacked the (second) most.
            you missed a key word. the original quote doesn't say he WOULD be, just that he would be EXPECTED to be. this is a reasonable assertion. saying he HAS to be is not. you're apparently arguing two different things, one is true (that A does not result in B always) the other is not (that A would be more likely to result in B).
            There's the problem: he's making an argument, saying that the Lions' OLine isnt nearly as bad because Kitna passed the (second) most in the NFL.

            I don't think its reasonable to say that the player that passes the most is EXPECTED to be. I think it IS reasonable to say the player that has the worst OLine is expected to be sacked the most.

            To me, the talent of the OLine is a more accurate indicator than the number of passing attempts.
            Left NFLDC: 20080918.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Eaglez.Fan
              This is just like do WR's that get the ball most drop the most passes, well yah they do becaus ethey get the most opportunites but somone should figure out the percentage of QB's that get sacked out of every pass attempted
              That's a similar argument, and I also disagree with it.

              I think the WR's that get the ball most have the chance to drop the most passes, but I think the WR's with the worst hands/concentration drop the most passes. To me (as with the QB/sacks argument), it's a matter of talent and ability... it isn't JUST opportunity.
              Left NFLDC: 20080918.

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