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  • Hey Bills fans. Im working on a mock draft and am having trouble with your pick if both Orakpo and Brown are gone. Who would you for? What are your top needs and who would you draft in this scenario if trade downs are not an option?

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    • Originally posted by Mr.Regular View Post
      Hey Bills fans. Im working on a mock draft and am having trouble with your pick if both Orakpo and Brown are gone. Who would you for? What are your top needs and who would you draft in this scenario if trade downs are not an option?
      Who else is gone? That is a terrible scenario for us. Who is the best lineman available?


      Thank you XxXDragonXxX for the Avatar!

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      • Originally posted by Biscuit View Post
        The Death Of The Tampa 2

        http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...f-the-tampa-2/



        Matt Bowen, the writer, is a former Bill. He joined the team in 2006, when the Bills were implementing the Tampa-2, under Jauron and Fewell (who came from Chicago). The Bills have migrated from the Tampa-2 in 2006 because they did not have the personnel, to a Cover-2 in 2007 as their MLBs could not cover the larger zones and given those defenses miserable success against the Pats have again moved away from it to a standard 4-3.

        Also the Tampa-2 and Cover-2 values speed and quickness and not stoutness. The Bills play December games where the elements come into play (see the last Pats game). Speed off the edge in those games are mitigated because in those games, teams pound the ball running.

        Bowen was here, with the Bills, when they were running a Tampa-2 and that is Jauron's and Fewell's pedigree, he does include Buffalo on that list as being a Tampa-2 team. I believe they are migrating away from it as of 2008, and have made the efforts to move away from it. I believe the Bills are moving away from the Tampa-2 and Cover-2 being their base defense. Per what Bowen says above and because of what they did on the field this year, the personnel they acquired last offseason and the success of the Giants against the Pats juggernaut in the Super Bowl last year, it makes sense.

        What the Giants, and what the Titans run is a standard 4-3. The Giants will use the blitz more but the Titans, who will play a lot of man-to-man and don't blitz as often, both rely on the front four to pressure the QB. The Bills used a base 4-3, but since they can't pressure with their front four they needed to back it up with a lot of nickle. Hence the Bills draft in 2008. They drafted three CBs. They drafted CBs while already having McGee, Greer, Youboty, and Will James on the roster, that plus Whitner can and plays the slot receiver on occasion. They want to move to man, and McKelvin has the traits to do so. The Bills just can't generate a pass rush from the front 4 and therefore need to play nickle to hold the fort.

        Kawika is not a WLB in a Cover-2/Tampa-2, he is more stout then quick. He is much larger then what is required. Stroud is stout, can penetrate but the Bills do misuse him often by playing him on the nose straight on the guard. Spencer Johnson skill set allows him to line at DT and DE depending upon the personnel groupings. Furthermore, Ellis in the 3rd is a longer and larger DE and there were better rush OLBs who could play DE in the Tampa-2 still on the board (ie. Cliff Avril who went to the Lions). The Bills want their DEs to be athletic, heavy and long enough to attack the inside B and twist and stunt the A Gaps, not just rush the edge. They want their DEs to play the 1 alignment and control the B gap.

        The Bills could still be using Cover-2 as their base, their personnel moves last year make little sense then. I don't believe they use it as their base, and they probably still have it in their package. But what Bowen states above, and I agree, is that the Tampa-2 Defense is dying, think of how the Patriots have manhandled the Bills in the past and the Colts since Dungy was there, that is also a compelling case for it to be already dead.
        The Cover 2 defense is far from dead. Tennessee uses it a lot as does the teams you mentioned. As long as Jauron is our HC we will be staying with the Cover 2 defense although teams are starting to switch around a lot to confuse defenses. If the 3-4 is all that great what happened to the Cowboys and why did San Diego fall to 8-8 or the Browns fall from 10-6.
        Your right that defenses come and go if they are not funamentally sound but the Cover 2 comes directly from the great Steeler teams of the 70's so its been around for a long time and stood the test. The 3-4 is also here to stay although it fittles with its schemes as well as does the basic 4-3. All these teams have packages utilizing the Cover 2 defense to confuse their opponents just as Cover 2 teams will blitz ocassionally to confuse their opponents.
        What has become clear is that if you don't have the ideal personnel to run this defense, you can have serious problems but the same holds true for a 3-4 team and a basic 4-3 team. The teams that acquire the best personnel for their defense have more success than those teams who use a defense but lack the personnel to run it properly.
        These 3 defenses are here to stay for some time although they are all adding wrinkles to confuse their opponents.
        And proud of it!!!

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        • Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post
          The Cover 2 defense is far from dead. Tennessee uses it a lot as does the teams you mentioned. As long as Jauron is our HC we will be staying with the Cover 2 defense although teams are starting to switch around a lot to confuse defenses. If the 3-4 is all that great what happened to the Cowboys and why did San Diego fall to 8-8 or the Browns fall from 10-6.
          Your right that defenses come and go if they are not funamentally sound but the Cover 2 comes directly from the great Steeler teams of the 70's so its been around for a long time and stood the test. The 3-4 is also here to stay although it fittles with its schemes as well as does the basic 4-3. All these teams have packages utilizing the Cover 2 defense to confuse their opponents just as Cover 2 teams will blitz ocassionally to confuse their opponents.
          What has become clear is that if you don't have the ideal personnel to run this defense, you can have serious problems but the same holds true for a 3-4 team and a basic 4-3 team. The teams that acquire the best personnel for their defense have more success than those teams who use a defense but lack the personnel to run it properly.
          These 3 defenses are here to stay for some time although they are all adding wrinkles to confuse their opponents.
          The C-2 is not dead, correct, but it is being used by fewer teams as a base package defense. That was the core point of the article and what I was saying. The C-2 truly is a terrible fit for the Bills, and based upon the personnel moves they made in 2008 I see that they have acknowledged it, especially with the defense they were running during the season. The C-2 encourages teams to run on you, if you can't generate a pass rush, and have lighter, quicker yet less stout players in your front 4 then teams will try to wash out your front and pound the ball. Buffalo suffered from all that in the past, they did not ever acquire the talent and furthermore they play in an environment where rushing the ball becomes a key for December games.

          Comment


          • Thoughts on trading Jason Peters?

            i have been seeing more and more mock draft having the bills choosing an OT at #11 this year. It got me to thinking and with the high number of quality OT's comming out this year (the two smith's, oher, and monroe, all of which are ranked in scott's top 11 players in the draft) i think it could be very beneficial for the bills to get rid of greedy Jason Peters. Jason is a big time talent and because of that we could trade him for another star such as Anquan Boldin who wants out of arizona, or any other talented player teams would be willing to give up for Peters. We could also trade him for draft picks, including a 2nd 1st round pick. At number 11 we would then draft the best remain OT that fits our system the best to replace Peters. I know having Peters at LT and which ever OT we draft at RT would be great but I have been impressed with langston walker since his arrival in buffalo and believe we have greater needs then upgrading walker who is solid. What do yall think?
            "it won't change not one way how I play this week no matter what the fine is. You can't stop playing defense the way defense has always been created to play." - Ray Lewis after being fined $20,000 for hit on Hines Ward


            Let's Go BUFFALO!

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            • the Falcons will take him off your hands since he "apparently" doesn't wanna be in buffalo :)

              Sig by BK

              “They have one guy, he’s pretty short. But he can go out and play. He can be a little aggravating too.’’ -- Joe Flacco talking about Brent Grimes.

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              • Where does the thought of replacing Langston Walker come from? He's been our best lineman, nobody wants to replace him.

                I don't see us trading Peters, and I don't think we go for one of the big tackles. Simple thoughts from me. I don't think it happens.

                Thread merged to main discussion.
                Last edited by SuperMcGee; 01-21-2009, 03:11 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SuperMcgee View Post
                  Where does the thought of replacing Langston Walker come from? He's been our best lineman, nobody wants to replace him.

                  I don't see us trading Peters, and I don't think we go for one of the big tackles. Simple thoughts from me. I don't think it happens.

                  Thread merged to main discussion.
                  i agree. I don't think we'll trade Peters but I can see us not resigning him when he's a FA.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by SuperKevin View Post
                    i agree. I don't think we'll trade Peters but I can see us not resigning him when he's a FA.

                    Wouldn't it be a better idea to trade Peters before free agency, if we're just going to lose him anyway?


                    Originally Posted by scottyboy
                    my lord...I cannot imagine such a world where I can mention Raymell Rice's thighs around a girl and not be the only one sexually aroused
                    But for everyone reading this in Buffalo and Cleveland and everywhere else, take solace in the following: As crazy as it sounds, you're lucky. Your Mount Everest experience is still ahead of you. It's waiting, and it's glorious.- Bill Simmons

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                    • Also, don't forget to vote for the Bills.
                      http://www.chunky.com/ClickForCansAlreadyVoted.aspx

                      If the Bills win, Buffalo will get an extra 5,000 cans of soup for their local Feeding America food bank.


                      Originally Posted by scottyboy
                      my lord...I cannot imagine such a world where I can mention Raymell Rice's thighs around a girl and not be the only one sexually aroused
                      But for everyone reading this in Buffalo and Cleveland and everywhere else, take solace in the following: As crazy as it sounds, you're lucky. Your Mount Everest experience is still ahead of you. It's waiting, and it's glorious.- Bill Simmons

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TheBuffaloBills View Post
                        Who else is gone? That is a terrible scenario for us. Who is the best lineman available?
                        I just did one where it went
                        Stafford
                        A. Smith
                        Curry
                        Crabtree
                        Brown
                        Orakpo
                        Monroe
                        Jenkins
                        Raji
                        J. Smith

                        I was thinking Maybin, Pettigrew, Maclin? Not sure though you guys would know better than me.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bills2083 View Post
                          Wouldn't it be a better idea to trade Peters before free agency, if we're just going to lose him anyway?
                          yeah hes still got like 2 more years on his contract


                          Originally posted by SuperMcgee View Post
                          Where does the thought of replacing Langston Walker come from? He's been our best lineman, nobody wants to replace him.


                          I don't see us trading Peters, and I don't think we go for one of the big tackles. Simple thoughts from me. I don't think it happens.

                          Thread merged to main discussion.
                          When langston was a LT in oakland he was absolutely aweful.


                          its obvious the other plays want Jason, and the offensive line knows they are a better unit when Peters is in.

                          For a team full of players who think they are close to "getting over the hump"
                          what kind of message would it send to the players to trade a 2x Probowl, and probably your best player?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BufFan71 View Post
                            When langston was a LT in oakland he was absolutely aweful.
                            Relevance? Walker is a great RT for the Bills, and I foresee him continuing to play there. Peters is still our LT. I don't get why you'd quote my post here.

                            Also, to call a non-Moorman player the best on the team is just foolish.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SuperMcgee View Post
                              Relevance? Walker is a great RT for the Bills, and I foresee him continuing to play there. Peters is still our LT. I don't get why you'd quote my post here.

                              Also, to call a non-Moorman player the best on the team is just foolish.
                              after i posted, i re-read it, but i was too lazy to change that....

                              i misread your quote

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BufFan71 View Post
                                after i posted, i re-read it, but i was too lazy to change that....

                                i misread your quote
                                Is there a youtube video of your avatar?


                                Thank you XxXDragonXxX for the Avatar!

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