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  • I had typed in that we should have been "11-5" and then I remembered the Tampa game; I just forgot to change the second number.
    We should have been 12-4 regular season.

    I'm not saying I think Madieu should go corner, I'm just saying that that I've heard that's what they might be planning, so if that happens I'd look for a Michael Griffin to replace him at safety.

    Like I said, Frostee hasn't touched a pro football field yet, and you never know about guys until they play. I'm sure people said that Marques Colston couldn't play, too, and that's why he fell to the seventh. How many teams would have picked Colston in the second or even first if they'd known the type of season he was going to have? Frostee may be the same type of guy, and he's coming in from a program well known to produce high-quality athletes. There must be a reason we chose him there, so I think everyone is just writing him off far too quickly as a bust.
    Let's see what he can do next year, then if he isn't any good I might say the same things you guys are saying now.

    Yeah, I know Claude Wroten popped positive for MJ, but that doesn't usually drop you three and a half rounds. . . Point in case, Ricky Williams (not that I'm saying he tested positive before his draft, but that I'm sure it was well known that he was a pothead.)
    I think Bunkley and Wroten were probably picked about where they should have been (so far) but my point is that completely unpredictable things happen on Draft Day.


    No doubt, Chris Henry has proved his worth time and time again (big YAC run in the Steelers game) but what I meant was that while Chris has clearly gotten several chances already, Odell seems to have been nixed for only one or two big indescretions.
    I'm guessing that for the Bengals to have Odell so deep in the doghouse means that he must have been a constant gnawing distraction or some such a thing.
    I just haven't heard any new recently about his future, which is why I'm asking whether or not you guys know if he's supposed to be back, or if they're completely undecided about his future or what.

    To PalmertoCJ:

    I wouldn't be too sure about not taking a DT on day one; that might not be Marv's style, but you have to remember that Mike B. is the one who makes the final call.
    Peko is definitely one of the big steals of last year's draft; I appreciate Peko and I hope Peko becomes a starter. I've lost most of my faith in Adams, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is his last year. I don't even have a clue as to what's happening with Thornton, and you usually don't have a shorter heavier guy like Shaun Smith come in to stop teams in the hurry-up.
    So you've got Peko whenever he's not tired, and Smith for teams that don't run the hurry-up, but outside of that and maybe John Thornton, who? Bryan Robinson? Yeah, that one hasn't worked out so well.

    Not that it's a lock that they'll draft a DT, but if the right guy falls to them like an Okoye or Tyler, I would be happy if they did -even in the first.

    I really don't think DT is their primary need, either. I think DB is. But I don't see that many lock-down CBs on the horizon for this draft. I haven't seen Darrelle Revis play (not that he'd be there at 18 anyway according to the experts) and I don't know about any other major corners that are going to be in this draft.
    Which is why I'm rooting for Michael Griffin, Okoye, or Tyler to be our first round pick (in that order.)
    But, as always:
    In Marvin I Trust.

    I enjoyed the final Steelers game, too. I just didn't enjoy the way it ended with Graham, the OT catastrophe, and the Broncos/49ers situation working out to where we would have gotten in. We should have won that game.
    I was bouncing off the walls in my house when Chris Henry made the big TD reception, though.


    So what would you guys think about Michael Griffin?

    EDIT: I also meant to mention that while I completely disagree with ANY loss of faith in Marvin for this year I have heard a few people around say things like "Marvin needs to win this year or he's done" and "Marvin's on the hotseat" (the latter is a Jim Rome-ism.)

    With a year this chock full of injuries, legal problems, and the like; why even throw a question to MARVIN?
    He can't help it that his future HOFer QB was severely injured and thusly didn't perform quite as well this year (at least some of this year.)
    He can't help it that eight of his players are childish individuals who can't stay out from behind bars.
    He can't help it that he lost LBs (Pollack, Thurman, Simmons), WRs (Henry, Houshmandzadeh, T. Perry, Brazell, Chatman), O-Linemen (Braham, Jones, Anderson, Williams), and DBs (Tory, Deltha, Jackson) like they were going out of style.

    So why blame him for those problems?

    Nevertheless I hear it from -like you said- the "Bandwagon-Hoppers" and the Jim Romes of the world.
    And I resent every bit of it.

    Go Marvin!

    Sincerely,
    DA

    Comment


    • Too be honest I like Griffin alot but I hate his value at 18. In order to take him I think a trade down would be best maybe picking up a 3rd rounder since we dont have one. I would say 24 and up would be a nice place to draft him. But if a player like Moses, Okoye, Adams, Anderson, or Landry is at 18 we pick one of them first.

      Big ups to jkpigskin for the sig.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by BengalsPwn
        Originally posted by Dark Apprentice
        Originally posted by FootballGod
        I am going to start this off by saying that I am going to assume that we finish the season at 8-8 or at best 9-7. That would give us a pick between 16-22. Lets go ahead and say that we average a 19th pick. Please tell me what you think. I can take the criticism and welcome it.

        Round 1. Quinn Pitcock, DT, Ohio State Sr, 6-3, 295: I feel that he is the second best DT in the draft behind Alan Branch. Quinn would fit perfect into our 4-3 base defense and could also play DE when we switch to 3-4. Sam Adams and John Thornton are unproductive and old. Pitcock and Peko in the middle would look great for years to come.

        Pretty good prediction of 8-8.
        We should have finished 12-5, If you don't believe me, let's take a little stroll down Washout Lane.
        Remember Tampagate? The San Diego Meltdown? Denver? That final Steelers game with that traitor Santonio :).
        My dad's been a Bengals fan for 20-25 years or so (I haven't even been on the planet quite that long) and he always says it's just nice to be able to be disappointed with an 8-8 finish.
        Back in the mid-nineties people would have cried tears of joy at an 8-8 Cin City finish.
        We know we're on the way up, so why am I hearing cries of "fire Marvin" around where I live and "Marvin's on the hotseat" by the likes of Jim Rome *cough* narcissist *cough*?

        I know the discussion has shifted to O and ST, but I saw this post and couldn't pass it up.
        No offense, FootballGod, but even if Pitcock is there -which somebody will probably buy into the hype and take him in the first 15- I'd absolutely hate this pick.
        Pitcock is not an impact player, but he is surrounded by them (even if they don't get the credit they deserve yet) and he does not merit a 18th overall pick.
        Where was Quinn when we needed him in the NC game? Playing hide-and-go-seek with the Florida O-line.


        I love Pitcock and I hope he does well in the NFL, I'm also a OSU fan, but I don't think he should go nearly this high and I think if Mikey B. did take him with that pick it could potentially be another "Big Daddy"/ Klingler/ etc. type of pick. Not that Pitcock doesn't have the drive like Wilkinson didn't, but that it would be a disaster of comparable magnitude to a team clearly on a big upswing.

        Now, I could be out of the loop, since I have no one offline to consistently discuss football with that researches, but I'm thinking maybe Michael Griffin with this first pick (or L. Landry if he somehow managed to fall this far.)
        Not that I don't love Dexter Jackson, but I think he's going to hit the same age curve that Tory hit in the next year or two. When that happens, we need a guy who has the size and speed to come into the lineup and I'm not necessarily believing (just yet) that Kaesviharn is it.
        Plus I hear that they might be trying to move Madieu over to CB which would open up the slot opposite Dexter for Griffin to step into early.
        So, assuming they've lost all faith in Deltha (the way I have lost all faith in Tory) we'd end up with Madieu, Dexter, JonJo, and M. Griffin as our DBs.
        I think that would be an excellent arrangement (particularly with Kaesviharn as extraordinary safety depth.)

        I also would be extremely happy with either Omobi Okoye or a DeMarcus Tyler.
        I know Okoye isn't supposed to fall this far, but neither was Claude Wroten last year (I think he fell to the fourth round) so who knows where a high-octane guy like Okoye could end up within the first.
        DeMarcus could also fall to the second because there are so many playmakers on the board that other teams would probably take first; in which case, I would consider it a "steal" if the Bengals nabbed him there.
        Forgive me if I don't exude much confidence in Sam Adams, but I saw teams running straight at him last year and winning those battles on a consistent basis. Injured or not, Big Sam didn't play like a former pro-bowler too much last year.
        Age has a funny way of dealing with football, two years ago Tory was a pro-bowler and now the consensus is that he's done -I believe that consensus- and I think Sam might have hit the same point last year (I could be completely mistaken.)

        Another thing I don't understand, why does everyone hate Frostee Rucker so vehemetly? I know he wasn't supposed to go until the seventh round last year, but obviously something changed in the weeks leading up to the draft. Just because the "experts" said he wasn't worthy of a pick earlier than the seventh round doesn't mean the teams agreed with those experts.Anyone remember Brodrick Bunkley last year? He was supposed to go in the late first or second by almost all of the accounts that I saw. I think he ended up at 11th overall. I already mentioned Claude Wroten from last year. Almost every draft analysis book I read had him written off by the second easily, he ended up in the fourth or so.
        So why is it so shocking to see a high-motor guy from an elite college program that was in the National Championship the year before jump up the board?
        I may be the only guy here who will say this, but so far I can't disagree with the Frostee pick (outside of the spousal battery -only bastards, pardon my French, do that.)
        He hasn't even touched the field in a regular season game yet. So can we cut him and Marvin a little slack?
        Maybe this is the wrong crowd for slack.

        Another interest of mine is whether or not Odell will be back next year.
        Bengals.com is expectedly tight-lipped about him, so does anyone here know what the consensus is?
        Don't forget this man was mini-RayLew last year, and he was a steal (talent-wise) in the second. I'm all for seeing him back next year -especially after giving Chris Henry a second, third, fourth, fifth, and nineteenth chance at returning- but I would like to know the general thoughts and your ideas about whether or not he even SHOULD come back.

        Sincerely,
        DA
        First off theres no way we can finish 12-5 unless your saying we would of lost in the playoffs.
        Secondly, Madieu played nickel his rookie year and played well. But theres no way he could start at CB. His hips are way too stiff to play CB and thats why he is a FS.
        Third, we hate Frostee bc he shouldnt of been picked there. Not only did his play on there field not merit a 3rd round pick, but he had off field issues, and is short and slow. Atleast Chris Henry had 1st round talent to go along w/ his issues. Wroten tested positive at the combine for a little thing called mary jane and thats why he fell. Also Bunkley was a late first rounder pre combine. He put up arguably the best combine results there. Also he had the stats to back up a top 15 pick.
        I agree with everything that you said. We were not a 12-4 team at all. Madieu is a safety for the rest of his nfl life. Bunkley WAS a top 15 pick after the combine because he did put up the sickest numbers out there.
        Who Dey & Go Bucks
        The Bengals are going to the Super Bowl.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BengalsPwn
          Too be honest I like Griffin alot but I hate his value at 18. In order to take him I think a trade down would be best maybe picking up a 3rd rounder since we dont have one. I would say 24 and up would be a nice place to draft him. But if a player like Moses, Okoye, Adams, Anderson, or Landry is at 18 we pick one of them first.
          I can agree with you on Griffin, the way Marvin is though he'll take a guy if he sees the potential (see Peko).

          Okoye/Tyler are no where on my first round board. There will be someone there worth taking.

          I see what you're saying about Shaun Smith and the hurry up, he's not an every down DT yet but Adams has some left in the tank (he's insane off the snap) and guys like Robinson/Fanene(Pass rushing threat)/Thornton are still on the team and they're adequate. We could take a DT round 4 or 5 or address it via FA. Note that 3 of our DT's were brought in during FA to be a starter (Robinson/Thornton/Adams) so Marvin seems to prefer DT's via FA or later in the draft. It's so rare to find a playmaking DT and their bust factor is so high in the early rounds. The CB/S/DE/LB route is better.

          If Marvin thinks Willis is the next Ray Lewis do you actually think he'd hesitate to pick him, regardless of who we have at LB? He can put pressure on the QB and stop the run, sideline-sideline... We could move Ahmad to SLB and have Jeanty as a solid backup and just wait out Pollack. It all depends on what he does with Odell but what our defense is lacking is a playmaker. Madieu is sort of but other than that we've got nothing (KK maybe, those end zone picks were sweet ). You can't have a top 15 defense without a playmaker and that's what Marvin is looking for. Ahmad/Madieu are the only ones with that potential on our D. Joseph is solid obviously but it's hard for a good CB to make plays because they throw away from him. LB's and S's are allowed to roam (obviously).

          Nelson is a possibility (I think his stock shoots at the combine and we have no shot at him). He can hit like a saftey but cover like a CB (something Marvin LOVES) and he has speed (the biggest key to Marvin on defense).

          Say we re-sign Justin Smith then I think it's between Revis/McCauley/Willis/Nelson/Griffin... One of them is bound to be there.

          Comment


          • Mock 4.0, Comments will come next week. Sorry guys I am really busy these days. Who Dey.

            Round 1. Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno St., Sr, 6-1, 205, 4.35
            Round 2. Jarvis Moss, DE, Florida, Sr, 6-6, 255
            Round 3. Brooks duh
            Round 4. Justin Warren, ILB, Texas A&M, Sr, 6-3, 245
            Round 5. Paul Soliai, DT, Utah, Sr, 6-4, 334
            Round 6. Roderick Rodgers, Safety, Wisconsin, Sr, 6-2, 185, 4.45
            Round 7. Brent Celek, TE, University of Cincinnati Sr, 6'4", 260
            Tell me what you guys think. What would you change? Do you like the positions that were picked? Who Dey
            Who Dey & Go Bucks
            The Bengals are going to the Super Bowl.

            Comment


            • Good mock I really think Marcus McCauley can be a shutdown corner in a couple years..... I don't think Moss will be there when we select, he is just too much of a physical freak....

              Comment


              • Nice... Not sure if Moss will be there round 2 but I like it. McCauley is like a Joseph clone from the idea that people are saying yeah he's physically perfect for the position but what did he do in college... Well we saw what Marvin did with Joseph and I don't see why he can't do the same with McCauley.

                I really like Celek, he'd be a sweet addition.

                The one pick I don't like is Warren. ILB isn't a big deal given Simmons still being on the team, Caleb, Nicholson and Ahmad all being capable of MLB so we're good to go there.

                I'd personally rather see a saftey round 4 or OL. IMO round 4 or 5 we have to address OL because of losing depth via players moving into a starting spot.

                Comment


                • In regards to Scotts mock, its alright......... Im just not a big fan of 1 year wonders. The bust rate on them is sooo high. I'll take anybody but Tyler. But Merriweather in the 2nd isnt too bad. He can play run and pass well but he has trouble with really big backs. Id be satisfied with Moses/Merriweather first day. I just hope we dont draft a CB first round unless Leon Hall drops to us.

                  Big ups to jkpigskin for the sig.

                  Comment


                  • Alright guys i'm the GM for the Bengals in the mock draft. I'm floating some ideas aroudn but thougth i'd get the opinion of the actual teams fan's....alright everybody that is suspended and FA's are considered resigned...I have acquired CB Drayton Florence and SS Terrence Kiel with the plans of moving Tory James to FS and inserting Jonathan Joseph at the other CB so they secondary is set for the most part for now. The positions I've looked at the most for the Bengals are DT(but they are very slim after the first 2), LB(probably not gonna be in position for any of the top 3), and TE(dont really want to take one), by the way T.J is now gone and Chris Henry is the # 2 WR. So what do you guys think I should address in the first round?

                    Comment


                    • You've lost me. Was TJ part of a trade to acquire Florence and why would the team resign James who is worse than O'Neil? What happened to O'Neil? I take the best def. player on the board whether i's a LBer, DE or DT or even another CB.

                      Comment


                      • T.J was traded for Drayton Florence, Terrence Kiel and a 4th rounder. All players are considered resigned. So hence Tory James automatically is back on the team as well as Justin Smith and Eric Steinbach. So the secondary is patched up pretty nicely with Florence and Joseph at CB, and James and Kiel at Safety(which is not great but still an upgrade over what you had). I have a couple players in mind for the pick just thought i should let u guys give me some opinions. I traded O'neil for draft picks, I feel he is an all or nothing CB and Joseph and Florence are better all around CB's

                        Comment


                        • I hope your not our gm. Arguably our best defensive player is our current starting FS Madieu Williams, so why you would aquire a terrible SS and move our worst CB to FS?

                          Big ups to jkpigskin for the sig.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BengalsPwn
                            I hope your not our gm. Arguably our best defensive player is our current starting FS Madieu Williams, so why you would aquire a terrible SS and move our worst CB to FS?
                            I agree with BengalsPwn.
                            We'd seriously be screwed if you were our GM.

                            I can't say I'd be entirely against a Deltha trade, but we probably can't get much for him so unless we find a desperate team or something, I'd say keep him and draft into the CB slot early anyway.
                            That way, you've got Deltha for next year in case the hypothetical rookie can't hack it yet. And if Deltha turns out to be a great corner and this year was just a fluke, then you've got trade bait.
                            On the other hand trading away T.J. -who I think we just resigned long term- would be a disaster.
                            He's so consistent (especially on third down) and he's got the "big-play ability" even though he doesn't always show it.

                            An impact WR with an outstanding track record who's a high-character guy would be worth more than Florence, Kiel, and a 4th, too.
                            And I don't think that Steinbach, Smith, and James will be back (some combo might but more than likely it'll just be James.)

                            I don't think much in your hypothetical would be in the Bengals best interest or would be economical for next season.

                            On FootballGod's Mock:

                            I can't say anything much about McCauley because I haven't seen him at all or researched him, but Jarvis Moss in the second would be a dream pick if he manages to fall that far.
                            He could be the Manny Lawson Marvin was looking for last year, but in this year's draft.
                            The man's a physical freak. Did you see Moss dominate my beloved OSU in the NC? I'm sure if you were a Florida fan it was a symphony of destruction.

                            Can't really disagree with any of your other picks either (mostly because I haven't researched some of the guys) but there is one pick I'd like to see in the 5th-7th instead of Warren, Soliai, or Celek:
                            If Dallas Sartz (LB USC 6'5" 240) falls that far I'd love to invest one of those picks in him. He played like a beast in the Michigan game, and is a big guy that's pretty quick for his size.
                            I think Michigan's O-Line (with Long) was supposed to really be something, but they were completely circumvented by Sartz in the Rose Bowl.

                            Nothing against your mock, I'm just saying I'd like to see Dallas become a Bengal instead of any one of those guys.

                            Sincerely,
                            DA

                            Comment


                            • I got a 4th and 7th for Deltha O'neal

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by gonzo1105
                                I got a 4th and 7th for Deltha O'neal
                                I wouldn't necessarily be able to disagree with such a move if the Bengals made it in reality, but I would be wary of trading a guy like O'Neal because he could still be something. This year may have been a fluke.

                                Although, with a fourth and seventh rounder who knows what we might get.
                                We could get players the caliber of Domata Peko, Marques Colston, or maybe even someone of equivalent value to a Tom Brady with those picks.
                                Or we could end up with Maurice Clarett (yes, I know, he was picked in the third -I'm just using him as the poster-child of mid-round draft failure.)

                                I assume you were replying to my reply, but when I mentioned the fourth round pick in my previous post, I was referring to you talking about trading T.J. away for the fourth-rounder (plus Florence and Kiel.)

                                I also couldn't disagree with picking up Florence (from what I've seen of him) but he's certainly not worth anywhere near a T.J. -even with Kiel and the pick.
                                Now Maybe he'd be worth -say- a Brian Simmons (no offense to Brian, but we'll probably have even more solid linebackers to add after the upcoming draft, and Brian's getting up there a little) or someone like that, but the chances of us actually aquiring Florence specifically, are remote at best.

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