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  • I had read that he was putting on weight for this season but Colt looked noticeably bigger Sat night. Trying to hold off praise for what I thought was an impressive debut by Shurmur and the squad until they play again but I thought the play-calling and execution was solid. Also thought the new defense was solid. They were physical and made few mistakes. But we'll see if it's a trend or not.

    But, I did find it interesting that Sam Bradford didn't look that great in his debut under McDaniels. I remember he was not pleased when hearing that Shurmur was leaving. I'm also really liking Shurmur's personality-it's probably just a byproduct of having to listen to Romeo and Mangini all these years.

    Norwood was a pleasant surprise. Skrine surprised me but reports said he had moments in camp.

    Originally posted by borg9
    Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

    Comment


    • click here for optimism. I'll hold off until I see at least one or two more pre-season games.

      Originally posted by borg9
      Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

      Comment


      • President Mike Holmgren and coach Pat Shurmur consider Massaquoi their "No. 1 receiver," and apparently don't believe Little is ready for a starting job despite back-to-back solid preseason games. The first-team receiver corps in Cleveland has Massaquoi at Z, Brian Robiskie at X, and Jordan Norwood in the slot.
        Smh. Cribbs, if healthy, is the better option there than Massaquoi. He's had a good camp at WR thus far and only recently been set back with a hamstring. Cribbs is more physical and explosive than Massa and imo is better at catching in a crowd. The only thing Massa does better is route running-important yes, but Cribbs just needs more live reps there to be better. And is just me, or does it seem like Little and Shurmur on not really hitting it off? 4th or 5th WR is kind of in the doghouse.

        For his first NFL start, other than allowing Patterson to beat him one one play, Pinkston played pretty well at LG. Looks like a keeper-fortunate, because Steinbach might be finished-forever.

        With B.Jackson down and out-he was one of the slowest backs I've seen this pre season-BEFORE the turf toe-we ought to sign Chester Taylor, who's about to be released.
        Last edited by Brown Leader; 08-29-2011, 10:44 PM.

        Originally posted by borg9
        Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

        Comment


        • For the record, I agree with the common sentiment that Heckert and Holmgren are building the foundation of this roster in a smart manner. Under Mangini, we were the most unathletic team in the NFL and one of the most talent-starved in general. The current brain trust has changed that. We've added some much-needed athleticism on both sides of the ball and stockpiled picks to create overall team depth. I like the direction we're going. That said, I don't know if I would quantify some of these guys as "impact players" yet. They very well could develop into that in the future, but we just don't know. We've seen plenty of players impress early on in their career and then wash out shortly thereafter. We can't project each individual as best-case scenario. While it's theoretically possible, it's mathematically improbable that they all reach their ceilings.

          As a person that also considers the Lions their second favorite team, I agree with IAC to a degree. Yes, Detroit's management has done a commendable job with their roster makeover. They have added cornerstones when they can, developed some talent in-house, and found a competent coach to oversee the effort. But -- and I want to stress this -- there is no universal blueprint for building a championship-caliber team. Sure, historically, there appears to be some overlapping components between them, but no surefire step-by-step approach that guarantees playoff berths and Lombardi trophies. With that in mind, let's look at what Detroit has done in the draft to dig themselves out of their self-inflicted hole since Martin Mayhew took over for Millen as general manager. (As an aside, Millen did hit on Calvin Johnson. Granted, it wasn't a hard pick to make, but he did leave the Lions with one elite building block. We got Joe Thomas the next pick. I'll take him as an impact player.)

          1.) The Roy Williams Trade - Stockpiling picks. Trading a proven commodity for a first, third, and sixth-round pick. The idea behind it? The Lions desperately need talent everywhere and one pretty good receiver isn't going to do much for them. (Note: With those picks, Mayhew took Brandon Pettigrew, Derrick Williams, and Aaron Brown. One hit and two misses. Pettigrew has all the makings of a very good-to-great tight end. Williams was always a better athlete than football player. Since waived. Aaron Brown never showed much more than an emergency third-string tailback. Since waived.)

          2.) Finding the Franchise Quarterback - Obviously, taking Matthew Stafford first overall in 2009 was a no-brainer. I know some preferred Mark Sanchez, but Stafford had the former crushed in terms of physical talent, experience, and upside. Grabbing that franchise quarterback is the biggest part of a rebuilding project and I have a feeling that is the source of your displeasure with the Browns. The bottom-line is that the Browns haven't had the opportunity to add someone like Stafford. Sure, we had our shot at Sanchez and Freeman in 2009, but let's be honest for a moment. Sanchez wasn't in the same tier with Stafford as a prospect and Freeman was a crap shoot. He looked the part of a franchise quarterback and flashed the potential, but he was perceived as a big-time project. Anything else is revisionist history. Instead, we added three Mangini stopgaps (admittedly lackluster compensation), an extra pick (good intentions meets bust), and Alex Mack, who has developed into one of the best centers in the NFL. I can't complain with that.

          Onto the 2010 NFL Draft. Top three quarterbacks were Bradford, Tebow, and McCoy. Like Stafford, Bradford went number one overall. We never had a shot at him. Neither quarterback left was worth a top ten pick, so we went with Joe Haden, the best cornerback prospect on the board. In a league becoming more and more dominated by high-octane passing attacks, defending the pass has become critically important. When you consider the fact that he also supports the run, which is paramount for winning inside our division, he was the right choice.

          Onto the 2011 NFL Draft. We had three shots at a quarterback this year. Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder. Out of the three, I wouldn't have hated Locker. But you also have to consider the external forces at work here. Locker had a disappointing senior season and was considered a project that had to become more comfortable in the pocket to succeed at the next level. Gabbert screamed bust to me. And Ponder doesn't have an enormously high upside either. Plus, McCoy showed some good things on tape in 2010. If the Browns weren't absolutely sold that Locker, Gabbert, or Ponder were franchise quarterback material, they made the right move by passing on all of them.

          3.) Finding the Stud Pass Rusher - A stud pass rusher is one of the four most important positions in football. The Lions had the great fortune of being able to pick Ndamukong Suh in 2010. Much like Stafford, it wasn't a hard choice to make. And, much like Stafford, the Browns haven't been in the position to select a truly elite one. B.J. Raji has shown a little pass rushing push for the Packers, but we were running a two-gap 3-4 in 2009 and already had Shaun Rogers on our roster. Brian Orakpo would have been nice, but the Ghost of Vernon Gholston unfairly hurt his value and he was gone before we got another chance at him at seventeen. In 2010, there wasn't a pass rusher that carried a top ten value. I expect Jason Pierre-Paul to develop into a formidable pass rusher with the Giants, but he was a freak athlete without much polish and lacked a complete repertoire coming out. A talent-deprived team doesn't gamble on that at seven. In 2011, we had our shot at a top-tier rusher, but we dropped back, picked up additional picks, and still found a defensive linemen we're confident in with Phil Taylor. At that point, it becomes an issue of philosophy. Would you rather have, for example, just Nick Fairley or Julio Jones or would you rather have Phil Taylor, Greg Little, and an extra first-round pick next year? Personally, I'm choosing the latter in our situation.

          The Lions have good picks and signings sprinkled throughout their past three drafts and free agent periods, but the coaching staff has meant a tremendous amount to the rebuild, too. Jim Schwartz and Martin Mayhew are on the same page. They share the same vision. That's important for any team. Like I said, I think Detroit has done a savvy job of restocking the cupboards. But every team can't follow the Detroit model exactly.

          Comment


          • As much as I have liked what the Lions have done, they still haven't produced a winning season. I know Stafford was hurt last year but I'll believe it when I see it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by keylime_5
              Browns get hosed apparently, what else is new?

              Sept. 11, 2011 5:23 p.m. - by Marty Gitlin - Shurmur question rule interpretation
              Coach Pat Shurmur on the quick-snap play that resulted in defensive confusion and the game-winning TD . "It's my understanding that they changed personnel lining up and there are rules that go along with that. When the offense changes personnel, it's my understanding the defense has time to do so." Browns RapidReports
              What league is he playing in? Many teams are using the quick snap and no huddle today to prevent the defense from switching personnel.
              And proud of it!!!

              Comment


              • Biggest beef with the coaching first week is the use of personal. Who is the team's best playmaker? Why does that guy only get about 3 touches within the offense, for the game? (Cribbs of course). Evan Moore had two huge drops, especially the probable TD catch but in his defense, he didn't even see the field until late in the 2nd quarter. Just speculating, but more playing time might get him more comfortable rather than standing on the sidelines for an hour , than thrown in to grab a TD.

                Colt had some untimely rookie type moments. But he also seemed unwilling to throw into coverage down the field. Maby that's due to the WRs hopelessly covered but the good to elite QBs in the league make their WRs better. The coaching philosophy might be conservative rather than chance a turnover but instead of a check to Hillis on 3rd and long, which is really conceding a punt, how about check to Cribbs or Armond Smith?

                The defense played fine other than the game deciding mistake ;) The offense sputtered and collapsed with Colt again looking pretty dreadful in the rain. Bengals on offense actually look like they could be really scary when a really good QB emerges.

                Originally posted by borg9
                Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

                Comment


                • yeah, Bengals have potential on offense with their weapons, but who wouldn't be scary with a really good QB, right?

                  Offense is a work in progress. Looked outstanding at times but couldn't maintain drives for most of the 2nd half. With a very young QB, a rookie head coach, and very average weapons that is to be expected. Very young team who is gonna make mistakes and lose games like that one, but they should improve as the year goes on and hopefully win at least 6 games and stay healthy.

                  Comment


                  • Look at the good news; I don't think we can play any worse.

                    How different of a game would it be without 7 1st quarter penalties, without a punter shanking 3 out of his 8 punts (the 3 in question went 20,27,30 yards) and an experienced head coach calling time out before we get embarrassed on that quick snap (which the league reviewed and stated we had ample time for a substitution).

                    edit: rumors are we'll be waiving McGee and signing Brad Maynard.

                    Let's get some activity going in the Cleveland sub-forum!

                    Comment


                    • Cleveland is one defensive breakdown away from leading the division.
                      I like how that sounds.

                      The good:
                      Colt was a fine game manger against the Colts. Massa had the best catch of his career. Cribbs started. (if we feed him the ball he can take over games-that should be obvious by now.) Sheard stood out at his new spot. We have a punter. Rubin is definitely a pro bowler-this year he might get the recognition. Browns have the second ranked pass defense after 2 games =) Hopefully this win gets the monkey off the team's back after a disappointing debut because there's a lot of winnable games ahead.

                      The bad:
                      Oline is getting 0 push in the run game...basically it.
                      Last edited by Brown Leader; 09-21-2011, 09:54 AM.

                      Originally posted by borg9
                      Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

                      Comment


                      • Oh, and about Chad-injuries robbed him of what could have been a career similar to Brees. When healthy he was very good and absolutely capable imo of leading a team to a ring. But Herm was no Sean Payton.

                        recap:

                        2002 - 104.2 rating-his best season-1st as starter. playoffs
                        2003 - misses first 6gms with fractured wrist. 82.9 rat.
                        2004 - 91.0 rat. shoulder surgery following rotator cuff in playoffs @ Pitt
                        2005 - another shoulder surgery-lost week 3 for the season-Herm bailed on him and the team
                        2006 - 82.6 rat Comeback player of the year-playoffs-creates Mangenius
                        2007 - high ankle sprain early on 86.1 rat coach prefers Kellen Clemens
                        2008 - 97.4 rat Comeback player again-turns Mia 1 win to 11- makes Tuna and Sparano look great- playoffs- ok another bad game but that squad overachieved.
                        2009 - Yet another shoulder injury-lost for season after 3gms
                        2010 - Henne takes over. the end.
                        2011 - Basketball oops- Broadcasting

                        Originally posted by borg9
                        Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Brown Leader View Post
                          Oh, and about Chad-injuries robbed him of what could have been a career similar to Brees. When healthy he was very good and absolutely capable imo of leading a team to a ring. But Herm was no Sean Payton.

                          recap:

                          2002 - 104.2 rating-his best season-1st as starter. playoffs
                          2003 - misses first 6gms with fractured wrist. 82.9 rat.
                          2004 - 91.0 rat. shoulder surgery following rotator cuff in playoffs @ Pitt
                          2005 - another shoulder surgery-lost week 3 for the season-Herm bailed on him and the team
                          2006 - 82.6 rat Comeback player of the year-playoffs-creates Mangenius
                          2007 - high ankle sprain early on 86.1 rat coach prefers Kellen Clemens
                          2008 - 97.4 rat Comeback player again-turns Mia 1 win to 11- makes Tuna and Sparano look great- playoffs- ok another bad game but that squad overachieved.
                          2009 - Yet another shoulder injury-lost for season after 3gms
                          2010 - Henne takes over. the end.
                          2011 - Basketball oops- Broadcasting
                          There is no physical similarity between Chad and Brees. Chad had a noodle for an arm while Brees has an above average NFL arm.
                          Chad was very accurate which was his strength but he couldn't make every throw which limited his effectiveness. Brees has no such limitation.
                          And proud of it!!!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Brown Leader View Post
                            I like how that sounds.

                            The good:
                            Colt was a fine game manger against the Colts. Massa had the best catch of his career. Cribbs started. (if we feed him the ball he can take over games-that should be obvious by now.) Sheard stood out at his new spot. We have a punter. Rubin is definitely a pro bowler-this year he might get the recognition. Browns have the second ranked pass defense after 2 games =) Hopefully this win gets the monkey off the team's back after a disappointing debut because there's a lot of winnable games ahead.

                            The bad:
                            Oline is getting 0 push in the run game...basically it.
                            The pass defense rating is totally misleading having faced Dalton and Collins and Dalton didn't even finish the game.
                            And proud of it!!!

                            Comment


                            • Good luck today guys. Hoping for an entertaining, injury free game today.

                              Props to fenikz on the awesome sig

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post
                                There is no physical similarity between Chad and Brees. Chad had a noodle for an arm while Brees has an above average NFL arm.
                                Chad was very accurate which was his strength but he couldn't make every throw which limited his effectiveness. Brees has no such limitation.
                                No physical similarity? What are you talking about, they both got the comb over. ;)

                                Meh, both small stature guys with great understanding of the game, accuracy, leadership traits. Chad's arm progressively got worse while Brees has maintained and maby even improved his arm.

                                Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post
                                The pass defense rating is totally misleading having faced Dalton and Collins and Dalton didn't even finish the game.
                                Hence, the smiley face after I wrote it.

                                But Haden is nearing a Revis like level after shutting down Green, Wayne and now Marshall. If he starts making plays on the ball too, he's there.

                                Sheard is really kind of beasting now. Looking like the best rookie DE. Taylor's doing fine but it irks me when he takes plays off. That doesn't look good next to a hustling beast like Rubin.

                                McCoy looked a lot like the first game except here he pulled out a win-good thing it wasn't raining.

                                Originally posted by borg9
                                Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

                                Comment

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