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  • sounds like the Browns front office/coach is trying to force Hillis out of Cleveland or gain leverage on him in contract negotiaitons.. They are phasing him out of the offense for the less talented Hardesty and spreading rumors that he missed last weeks game because of his contract situation..ignoring the fact that he lost 10-2 lbs. Pretty pathetic stuff and a bad way to treat their best offensive player.

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    • Originally posted by SolidGold View Post
      sounds like the Browns front office/coach is trying to force Hillis out of Cleveland or gain leverage on him in contract negotiaitons.. They are phasing him out of the offense for the less talented Hardesty and spreading rumors that he missed last weeks game because of his contract situation..ignoring the fact that he lost 10-2 lbs. Pretty pathetic stuff and a bad way to treat their best offensive player.
      Browns don't want to pay Hillis for what he did in 2010. At this point they probably want to see what his role will be in the new offense before they give him a big contract. As far as the game against the Titans-I figure they felt Hardesty is more explosive and since they were down big, he was more apt to make a big play than Hillis. And "less talented" ? ...that's debatable. Less experienced for sure.

      So Hillis' agent has come out and said he advised him not to play...so much for spreading rumors. Idk why it's such an issue anyways-a few players random thoughts become a media frenzy-smh. Hillis is great and needs to stay in Clev but he's not the team's best offensive player.

      Originally posted by borg9
      Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

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      • Originally posted by Cudders
        Nice to know I'm not the only Browns fan around here, haha.

        To your point, I think Cribbs should be viewed as a weapon first and foremost. He's a jack-of-all-trades and our best big play threat to boot. With how much this offense revolves around underneath stuff and mesh concepts, I wouldn't mind Cribbs getting more targets this year. But he's still way too inconsistent for my liking on the perimeter and I don't trust him enough to pencil him in as our long-term split-end, flanker, or slot. And, by the way, I absolutely love him in that role as a fourth wide out and full-time special teams demon. He brings a lot to the table for an offense and football team. But at this point his ceiling is a debate of plausible versus possible.



        I'm interested to see how his scheme unfolds as well. Shurmur used the tools available to him as offensive coordinator of the Rams. In 2009, Steven Jackson had 324 rushing attempts, which was third most in the NFL. In 2010, Steven Jackson followed that up with 330 rushing attempts, which was second most in the NFL. So Shurmur's body of work certainly suggests that he isn't opposed to a run-heavy offense. Whether his play-calling in St. Louis was influenced by Spagnuolo's philosophies remains to be seen though.



        His deep ball is a long-standing source of doubt though. I've gotten in numerous arguments so far about McCoy as the future of this organization. Quite frankly, I wasn't expecting him to light the world on fire in 2011. Far from it. All I was expecting was some tangible improvement in a few areas and he hasn't delivered those results. For being heralded as an accurate passer, I've been disappointed with him in that regard even in the short-to-intermediate ranges. He's leaving balls at his receiver's feet far too often. And, for being touted as a cerebral quarterback, he looks awfully uncomfortable and uncertain in the pocket.

        McCoy's shortcomings are especially troubling if Shurmur does intend on implementing a pass-first system. I was never ready to buy into Colt as a guy that could put a pro team on his shoulders and carry an aerial attack. But, if he was surrounded with a plethora of talent on offense and backed with a strong defense, I thought he had a legitimate shot at being a reliable caretaker; however, if Shurmur intends to make him the identity of the offense, I think it's putting Colt in a precarious position. A struggling young passer without much help offensively in an environment notoriously ill-suited for passing games? Oh boy...



        Hillis isn't an issue of fit. Hillis is a permeable back. He can carve out a spot in all types of offenses, including any variant of the West Coast system. He's a bruiser with plus athleticism and surprising softness in the passing game. I'd be mildly shocked if Hillis' role in this offense was related to anything other than his contract situation.



        Who argues otherwise? In reality, the Browns have four guys that I would feel comfortable calling impact players. Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joe Haden, and Josh Cribbs as a special unit ace. Then they have a few players that are very solid contributors. Peyton Hillis, D'Qwell Jackson, Ahtyba Rubin, etc. I think Greg Little and Phil Taylor have fair potential to become impact players from what we've seen so far. But I really don't think anyone is arguing the Browns as contenders as currently constructed. The need for a talent infusion or two is quite obvious.

        Personally, I'd leave Mack out of the equation, OC is a secondary position on a pro football team, a position that almost all teams fill with a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Thomas is certainly an impact player and Haden is close but they were expected to be since they were both top 10 picks. Cribbs is a very nice player but like Hester isn't really an every down player.
        My philosophy is simple, learned over 50 years of watching pro sports teams build themselves into champions, 'you finish last to get the top end talent to finish first', constantly finishing in the middle keeps you there for years.
        Sure, it is easy to say, top 10 talent especially top 5 talent won't make you a champion but you put a solid NFL GM in charge of a team and he will use those picks to produce a solid contender.
        Yeah, we can all point out players who became impact players from being drafted later in round 1 and even the lower rounds but it is a very tough challenge to find them and very few teams can rebuild using later picks.
        Look at NE, a team that develops talent very well but drafts later in round 1, they have the 32nd ranked defense with only one impact player on that side of the ball, Mayo, who by the way is the only high draft pick on their defense. So if we continue to totally waste our high round 1 picks by trading back, it is a sure fire recipe for mediocrity, and with an owner who cannot stay the course and tends to panic quickly, no GM is ever going to get the time with him, to use a slow method of development.
        I'd say our future is currently bleak, it is going to take a real miracle to right this sinking ship.

        Teams do not need a slew of top five picks to become competitive. It's popular to say on a draft site, but it's simply not true. You can find talented players and important pieces all over the draft. The only position your argument has its merits at is quarterback. But it isn't impossible to find a promising signal-caller unless you're drafting first overall. Not to mention, the Browns have the ammunition to make a move for a big-time quarterback prospect if it's deemed necessary next April.

        Here I completely disagree, see above, I repeat, you finish last to get the talent to finish first through the draft. Sure, for years, Cincy, Buffalo, and even Arizona had high picks every year but they were all low income teams with very small scouting departments who lacked the funds to hire the top people to make their draft picks.
        Detroit under Matt Millen is a perfect example of a horrible GM hired by a weak owner, who destroyed his team with high picks, but suddenly the owner gets lucky and finds a GM who got the job done with high picks and the Lions will only get better and be a top team for years.

        I couldn't agree more on Big Ben. His style of play isn't easy to watch, but it's incredibly effective. Even when their defensive core completely falls apart outside of Timmons and Woodley, I think Ben's underrated ability keeps them very relevant within the division. But you're right. It's not like the Steelers are an unsurpassable road block. The same can be said for the Ravens.



        That's a spot-on assessment of Cleveland's needs more or less. If Colt doesn't improve, quarterback is a first-round priority. So is a game-changing receiver and a stud pass rusher. Right tackle and guard are mid-round values to me. Personally, I would like the Browns to add some athleticism next to D'Qwell Jackson at linebacker. The second level of this defense is woefully unathletic. Free safety is probably a need too, I'm just not sure how dire yet.
        First and foremost, we must get a franchise QB, without a stud at this position, you are not a contender, period.
        And proud of it!!!

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        • So is Hillis pretty much done in Cleveland? After all the lip service from Shurmur looks like they are going with Hardesty anyways.

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          • Yup. Madden curse exists through coaching decisions now not just injury. Cleveland: Innovation for curses. ****

            Have it your way, with BK (BoneKrusher)

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            • seems like they suck at running the ball no matter who they put in there. I guess losing both of the starting OGs from last year and replacing them both with in all essence two rookies will do that.

              I really don't get the whole not play hillis and until sunday hardly play evan moore (which was replaced with play watson a lot less). seems like we're taking our best playmakers off the field too much.

              Our offense last year was Hillis and Watson. We need to get Hillis, Watson, and Cribbs the ball a LOT more if we're gonna do anything on offense. The west coast system is supposed to be about short passes with the backs and tight ends heavily involved. It seems like Colt's completion pct. is really low in part b/c we throw it downfield to our below average WRs too much.

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              • Haven't been watching any Browns games, but how do you evaluate your run game?

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                • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                  Haven't been watching any Browns games, but how do you evaluate your run game?
                  Like a bull running with eleven freight trains coming at him with a few prepubescent girls standing in the way.

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                  • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                    Haven't been watching any Browns games, but how do you evaluate your run game?

                    Absolutely no push. Against the good front 4's, Trent essentially has guys in his face as soon as he takes the handoff. Our guard play in the rushing attack is pathetic.

                    Have it your way, with BK (BoneKrusher)

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                    • Originally posted by kalbears13 View Post
                      Like a bull running with eleven freight trains coming at him with a few prepubescent girls standing in the way.
                      Hahahaha! Too funny.

                      I think I overestimated the strength of your OL when I drafted Trent in my fantasy leagues. I saw Joe Thomas, Alex Mack... a high pick in Mitchell Swartz and 2 Guards that were NFL serviceable.

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                      • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                        Hahahaha! Too funny.

                        I think I overestimated the strength of your OL when I drafted Trent in my fantasy leagues. I saw Joe Thomas, Alex Mack... a high pick in Mitchell Swartz and 2 Guards that were NFL serviceable.
                        They're pretty solid against the pass.

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                        • yeah, they keep the QB clean. Neither of our guards are maulers though and are both younger more finesse guys. Schwartz is a rookie (and he's actually done a fine job the past couple weeks since he got his NFL cherry busted by Jason Babin) and Thomas isn't having his best season. Not having any passing threat at all doesn't help Trent's case either.

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                          • In truth it's Trent too. He's still a rookie and feeling his way. I think there have been times he hasn't made the right cut or hit things as fast as he should have. I also hadn't realized till now how ineffective Watson and Cameron are in the run game. We really miss Alex Smith. Couple that with a rookie RT who's basically been hit or miss thru 3 games and a pair of pedestrian OGs who are better pass blockers then run blockers and you see the results. Not to mention a completely useless FB. Plus, our solid guys, Thomas and Mack, haven't played their best ball yet either.

                            The game tonight has the two best rookie RBs this year imo, Trent and Bernard Pierce. In case the score gets embarrassing, these two should be worth looking at and comparing.

                            Originally posted by borg9
                            Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

                            Comment


                            • Until Weedon proves he can actually beat a defense by throwing, teams are going to continue with 7 or 8 bodies in the box making life miserable for the OL and RB's. Teams are simply saying Cleveland cannot beat you by throwing, so play defense to take away the run and Cleveland has no offense. And that will be the story the whole year.
                              And proud of it!!!

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                              • I tuned in to the game late. Does anyone know what happened to Pinkston?

                                Have it your way, with BK (BoneKrusher)

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