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  • #76
    Originally posted by Iamcanadian
    I don't think you can rule out Quinn. He would be a huge upgrade over Frye. Peterson is a huge risk, he looks good on paper but couldn't even get through a college season for the last 2 years. What good is he if he can't stay on the field?? Thomas will probably be drafted by Detroit.
    I think it is going to come down to player's workouts and personal interviews. If Quinn passes with flying colours, he'll be our pick , if not, then it's Johnson or a trade down, because after Russell, Thomas, Quinn and Johnson, it's a pretty good dropoff in talent to the #5 prospect. These 4 guys are the elite prospects in this draft, at least before the combine and personal workouts, so unless some player blows the scouts away, we will have to take one or trade down. It's pretty feasible as the demand for Quinn or Johnson could be very tempting for some top 12 NFL team. We won't go any lower than that.
    I still say it comes down to free agency. I am neither pro or anti Quinn/Russell. With our salary cap space, if we can bring in 3 studs, i.e. Dielman, A. Thomas (as a DE possibly), N. Clements, etc. or any other OL, then I trust Savage to take his pick in round number 1. If that ends up being Quinn, Russell or Peterson, than I know he has done his homework and is comfortable with the choice. He has two drafts under his belt now, and I consider both Edwards and Wimbley to be solid picks.

    BUT, if he decides to add Thomas with the first pick AND take 1-2 OL in FA then I would back that as well, with the hope that the qb/rb positions are addressed next year, because I am still solid with thinking that Fry is not a starter in this league, but a very solid backup, and Droughns has seen better days and was never an elite back. (I am selfish and want my LT or LJ, what can I say :D )

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by RoyHall#1
      Originally posted by ChazMonk
      Originally posted by RoyHall#1
      Originally posted by ChazMonk
      I don't post much, but am always reading up on my Brown's, so here is some tidbits I have come up with regarding what I think, though of course I am no expert.

      I like to think I am always loyal to the players on my teams, so bear that in mind when I say this: If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we possibly be happy with Droughns and Fry as our starting RB and QB respectively? Droughns will never be an elite back and Fry will never be a Manning or Favre (I know, few QB's are, but why can't we strive for it, instead of being the Raven's of 2000 with Dilfer or the Bears of this year). So why are so many people against picking a Russell, Quinn or Peterson in the first round.
      If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we be happy with a sub-par offensive line not allowing any of our quarterback's or running back's any chance (seemingly) to do their jobs correctly year after year?
      True, but to that I say our best bet is FA for the line and picks 2-7. Getting an outstanding QB and RB would be more realistic with the 1st round pick. And my main point is we will not win a super bowl with our current qb and rb situation, so why not strive for the best at those positions as well? I for one have never understood all the hoopla surrounding Fry, not that I think he is terrible. And when was the last time the Browns had a "blue chip" RB? And why not? I know the line is to blame as well, but I for one am completely tired of the 31st ranked running attack in the league every year.

      I totally agree we need the trenches fixed to go to the next level, but having an outstanding backfield would be nice as well, and would even stoke the interest of fans.
      So basically we both think that we need to strive for a great backfield and o-line (obviously :roll: ) but there's an issue with money and only 1 pick for an elite player. I feel that o-line is a more pressing need, but, don't get me wrong, I would not be upset at drafting AP in the 1st round. However, I'm still on Charlie's bandwagon and will be ticked off immensely if we take Quinn or Russel.

      Also, look at Tampa Bay about 5 years ago. Who did they have behind center? Brad johnson with Warrick Dunn behind him? That's hardly great. Granted, they had an amazing defense, and it is a rare occurrence that a team wins the super bowl without an elite RB or QB, but it can be done.

      Lastly, you've prompted me to change my sig, although I'm still putting Thomases name first.
      First, I'm glad I inspired someone today :D . Secondly, I honestly think there are some pretty elite/solid OL that will be around for our second pick. I don't feel the same way about the skill positions we have discussed. So here is my sad attempt at my perfect draft (which is far from perfect because I can't make up my mind....) Again, these will change with who we pick up in FA

      1. Russell/Quinn/Peterson/trade down (and option I like, and take Okoye or Carriker or Branch)
      2. Grubbs/Blalock
      3. Kalil/M. Bush

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Iamcanadian
        I don't think you can rule out Quinn. He would be a huge upgrade over Frye. Peterson is a huge risk, he looks good on paper but couldn't even get through a college season for the last 2 years. What good is he if he can't stay on the field?? Thomas will probably be drafted by Detroit.
        I think it is going to come down to player's workouts and personal interviews. If Quinn passes with flying colours, he'll be our pick , if not, then it's Johnson or a trade down, because after Russell, Thomas, Quinn and Johnson, it's a pretty good dropoff in talent to the #5 prospect. These 4 guys are the elite prospects in this draft, at least before the combine and personal workouts, so unless some player blows the scouts away, we will have to take one or trade down. It's pretty feasible as the demand for Quinn or Johnson could be very tempting for some top 12 NFL team. We won't go any lower than that.
        I'm not ruling Quinn out, I just want to

        Both of Peterson's injuries were freak accidents, not at all related, and are the types of injuries that do not linger, so I don't think that his injury problem's are a huge concern.

        I agree that right now it seems like Detroit will take Joe Thomas, but the draft is still a long time away and hopefully something will change their minds. (At least I hope so)

        Johnson as our pick? Last time I checked Matt Millen wasn't a part of our front office. But I agree with the huge drop-off in talent, which would probably make it easier to trade our pick. If we could trade it for an extra 3rd round pick and still get Branch, then we could have helped our trenches just as much as we would've without the trade in the first 3 rounds while still getting Michael Bush. Not a bad day 1.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by RoyHall#1
          Originally posted by Iamcanadian
          I don't think you can rule out Quinn. He would be a huge upgrade over Frye. Peterson is a huge risk, he looks good on paper but couldn't even get through a college season for the last 2 years. What good is he if he can't stay on the field?? Thomas will probably be drafted by Detroit.
          I think it is going to come down to player's workouts and personal interviews. If Quinn passes with flying colours, he'll be our pick , if not, then it's Johnson or a trade down, because after Russell, Thomas, Quinn and Johnson, it's a pretty good dropoff in talent to the #5 prospect. These 4 guys are the elite prospects in this draft, at least before the combine and personal workouts, so unless some player blows the scouts away, we will have to take one or trade down. It's pretty feasible as the demand for Quinn or Johnson could be very tempting for some top 12 NFL team. We won't go any lower than that.
          I'm not ruling Quinn out, I just want to

          Both of Peterson's injuries were freak accidents, not at all related, and are the types of injuries that do not linger, so I don't think that his injury problem's are a huge concern.

          I agree that right now it seems like Detroit will take Joe Thomas, but the draft is still a long time away and hopefully something will change their minds. (At least I hope so)

          Johnson as our pick? Last time I checked Matt Millen wasn't a part of our front office. But I agree with the huge drop-off in talent, which would probably make it easier to trade our pick. If we could trade it for an extra 3rd round pick and still get Branch, then we could have helped our trenches just as much as we would've without the trade in the first 3 rounds while still getting Michael Bush. Not a bad day 1.
          I disagree on Peterson, his running style means he is going to take a lot of big hits. If he couldn't stay healthy for 2 years in college, he'll have a hard time taking punishment as a pro. He's a huge risk to draft and we simply cannot be taking risks with the #3/4 pick in the draft. If he proves to be brittle as a pro, this franchise will have wasted an opportunity to advance and it would be 2009/2010 before we would recover. It's simply not worth the risk for a rebuilding franchise and I seriously doubt we take him.
          And proud of it!!!

          Comment


          • #80
            I thought our secondary was a bright spot this season, and, when healthy, I believe it to be a top 10 secondary in the league. Granted, we are missing another good starting corner opposite Bodden, who is a top ten corner when healthy. And we have a strong core of safeties, led by Sean Jones who is an elite safety and the best player on the Brown's.
            Just another Browns fan horribly overrating his own team. Be realistic.

            Bodden (despite being a good player now) isnt near the top 10 in the league!

            Sean Jones is nowhere near an elite safety, I have no clue why you even think this. Hes a solid up and coming player so far.

            And to even think the Browns (when healthy) are a top 10 unit in the backfield is crazy. The stats speak for themselves. We are weak in that category.

            Sean Jones our best player? Hopefully you ment on deffense and even then its not true. Wimbley won our deffensive player of the year, voted by teamates. And even then Andra Davis is better and more productive than Jones.

            Comment


            • #81
              You got the wrong read on Jones, Montainya....Jones was a playmaker in our secondary and should have made the pro bowl - in fact he probably would've been a top vote getter if he played on a good defense like San Diego or Baltimore instead of us. Jones is on his way to being elite though he isn't there yet, and he is 100000x better than Andra Davis on defense.

              Bodden is near the top 10 in the league as a CB despite your misconception, if we won games in 2005 he would've went to the probowl then. If we add Clements then the young and talented D-backfield of Bodden-Pool-Jones-Clements could have the pontential to be one of the top secondaries in the NFL

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by JoeMontainya
                I thought our secondary was a bright spot this season, and, when healthy, I believe it to be a top 10 secondary in the league. Granted, we are missing another good starting corner opposite Bodden, who is a top ten corner when healthy. And we have a strong core of safeties, led by Sean Jones who is an elite safety and the best player on the Brown's.
                Just another Browns fan horribly overrating his own team. Be realistic.

                Bodden (despite being a good player now) isnt near the top 10 in the league!

                Sean Jones is nowhere near an elite safety, I have no clue why you even think this. Hes a solid up and coming player so far.

                And to even think the Browns (when healthy) are a top 10 unit in the backfield is crazy. The stats speak for themselves. We are weak in that category.

                Sean Jones our best player? Hopefully you ment on deffense and even then its not true. Wimbley won our deffensive player of the year, voted by teamates. And even then Andra Davis is better and more productive than Jones.
                statisticaly, our secondary wasnt that good. if you actually watched the browns games you would know that is b/c our DL doesnt provide enough pressure on the QB. bodden is one of the better coverage corner's in the league. says so ocho cinco.

                while we may not be a top 10 coverage unit, we are pretty good. give Brodney Pool a year or 2 to start, and we'd have one, if not the best, saftey duo in the league. and to say that wimbley is the best player on the team would be an overated statement. while he showed one of the best performances of a rookie in browns history, sean jones is also one of the best players on the team. thats a matter of opinion. and he WILL be and elite saftey. brodney pool will also be an elite saftey, says so phil savage.

                to say that davis was more productive than jones is an overating a player. while davis is good, he racks up 100+ tackles a year b/c our Dline sucks. and with 100 so tackles, less then 10 were for a loss. and davis didnt show up untill half way thru the season. davis is consistant. a decent coverage LB. he's not a playmaker. sean jones is a future pro bowler. mark my words.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Whatever excuses you guys want to keep making as to why Jones isnt elite/made the pro bowl, why are secondary was bad, why Bodden didnt make the pro bowl/isnt quit top 10 yet, it doesnt matter! The fact is its not true yet, and weather it will be or not, the fact is its just not true right now.

                  Elite safeties = Reed, Dawkins, Palamolu, etc.......

                  Sean Jones didnt even make the pro bowl. He might be an all pro one day, but that doesnt even make him near elite.

                  i can name 15 DB's that are better than Bodeen despite him being a very good player, hes not close to top 10.

                  And if Bodden was top 10, and Jones was elite, then our secondary wouldnt have gave up so many TD's.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by JoeMontainya
                    Whatever excuses you guys want to keep making as to why Jones isnt elite/made the pro bowl, why are secondary was bad, why Bodden didnt make the pro bowl/isnt quit top 10 yet, it doesnt matter! The fact is its not true yet, and weather it will be or not, the fact is its just not true right now.

                    Elite safeties = Reed, Dawkins, Palamolu, etc.......

                    Sean Jones didnt even make the pro bowl. He might be an all pro one day, but that doesnt even make him near elite.

                    i can name 15 DB's that are better than Bodeen despite him being a very good player, hes not close to top 10.

                    And if Bodden was top 10, and Jones was elite, then our secondary wouldnt have gave up so many TD's.
                    one reason why jones didnt make it to the pro bowl is b/c the browns are not a nationally televised team yet. we dont play monday nights. ppl vote for who they watch. the whole country doesnt watch the browns yet. just from here to pittsburgh.

                    thats great that you can name 15 db's better than bodden. thats pretty good. if there's 4 Dbacks in each standard defensive alignment, that means there are 128 starting DB's in the league. so if there are 15 better than bodden, that makes him the 16th right? i'll take that.

                    2 players dont make a secondary, thats why we let so many TD's. holly is proven to be valuable, but not a starter, and as much as i like russel, he's slow.

                    as far as the players that you mentioned(dawkins, palamolu, reed) ED and Troy belong to a great defense. making them that much better. and dawkins belongs to a fairly stout secondary. good players are made elite by the help of other good players. jones is a good player with a s*** DL, 2 rookie LB's. one on the decline. and one that shows up but doesn't make plays. not to mention that jones is THE ONLY PLAYER on defense to start every game.

                    on another note, ed reed was drafted by savage. (see above posts)savage also says that pool is and elite player. i'll take his word for it.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      I would actually like to hear who the 15 better than Bodden are.
                      I wouldn't say top 10, but top 15 is a definite.

                      As for Jones, of course he isn't elite, he has only started on year. However, he is one of the better young safeties in the NFL, and had his play not trailed off a little in the last 3-5 games, he would have had a legitamate shot at the pro bowl (if people knew about him).

                      Russell is solid, and important to our secodanary.

                      I don't think CB is big need this season, with Tucker coaching them, we can get away with average talent. We need to work on the trenches, then see what we have outside, because it all starts up front.

                      I say let Pool and Holley battle for the #2 and 3 corner spots this year and maybe next depending on how much more work our front seven needs. Then move Pool to FS and draft a legit corner.

                      DChess resizing inc.

                      Reality is relative.

                      We don't give a DAMN for the whole state of Michigan

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by JoeMontainya
                        Whatever excuses you guys want to keep making as to why Jones isnt elite/made the pro bowl, why are secondary was bad, why Bodden didnt make the pro bowl/isnt quit top 10 yet, it doesnt matter! The fact is its not true yet, and weather it will be or not, the fact is its just not true right now.

                        Elite safeties = Reed, Dawkins, Palamolu, etc.......

                        Sean Jones didnt even make the pro bowl. He might be an all pro one day, but that doesnt even make him near elite.

                        i can name 15 DB's that are better than Bodeen despite him being a very good player, hes not close to top 10.

                        And if Bodden was top 10, and Jones was elite, then our secondary wouldnt have gave up so many TD's.
                        I agree, there is a huge difference between potential and how they are playing now. While the Cleveland secondary has real potential to get better, they aren't there yet, not even close, that's just wishful thinking.
                        Can Bodden, Jones, and Pool turn into solid pros, I think so but it will take time and unless the DL gets better, we won't be sending too many guys to Pro Bowls.
                        And proud of it!!!

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          you guys are in love with "potential". Potential is what every NFL player has, not just Jones, Poole etc....

                          You think there the only 2 young safetys in this league noone has heard of? When they deserve it, thats when people will hear of them.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            on another note, ed reed was drafted by savage. (see above posts)savage also says that pool is and elite player. i'll take his word for it.
                            So that means Reed = Poole because Savage drafted both?

                            Savage has.....NEVER said Poole is an Elite player. Maybe a top talent, there is a 100% difference.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Chazmonk
                              1. Russell/Quinn/Peterson/trade down (and option I like, and take Okoye or Carriker or Branch)
                              2. Grubbs/Blalock
                              3. Kalil/M. Bush
                              Round 1: agree about Russell/Quinn/Peterson. Okoye won't make a good 3/4 DE. Branch is allright, Carriker, I don't know about him THAT early.

                              Besides, it has already been stated from Phil that this draft will focus on the Offense. Add in that Phil is a BPA guy, and we'll take JR/BQ/AP.

                              Round 2: Both of them are guards. While you really never know what Phil will do, history has shown us that he won't pick guards until day 2 (rounds 4-7). We have been 'talking' to Staley, Ugoh, Harris, Free, Marten, etc. Tackles that are sapose to be there in R2. <---Source Cleveland Plain Dealer.

                              We could see abriamri or bush or someone, but offense is the focus point of the 07 draft.

                              Round 3: Kalil is an interior lineman as well who is basically a jeff faine copycat which didn't fare well here. Plus with Bentley, I don't see us taking a long term option at C. Fraley is just the scapegoat for another year.

                              I do like Bush though. He can be used anywhere, RB/WR. He has the hight/speed/hands to be an WR and has had the success at BIG EAST Louisville @ HB. It would also give Russell/Frye/Quinn/Anderson or whoever else COULD be our starting QB next year another target out of the backfield since he's one of the best HB receivers.


                              Lastly on the secondary debate.

                              It's not bad! They were injured and bagged up. They didn't get any help form the DLINE, nor the offense for the situations the Defense was put in.

                              “It wasn’t that hard a pick. We really feel good about him. I think he’s going to be a pleasant surprise for us in a year or so. He’s the total package.”
                              That is what was said about the pick of Pool. I couldn't find the word 'elite' anywhere, but that little Phil Savage quote is enough for me to think he'll be something special.

                              Also, Montainya, I would like to hear what corners are better than a HEALTHY Bodden. Chad Johnson/Ocho Cinco loves to go up against him since it's such a challenge.

                              Lastly, if you are going to say that if you didn't go to the pro bowl, your aren't good or whatever statement you're trying to make, than you, are, an idiot! I'd love for you to tell me Tom Brady is a bust since he didn't win the super bowl this year nor did he go to Hawaii.

                              Pro Bowlers are fan favorites, not people who are the best of the best at their position. Cleveland is not a nationally televised team. Hell all of our games weren't even shown in northeastern Ohio! Hard for people in California to consider Jones a fan favorite and give him a free vacation to the 50th state.

                              Our secondary is not only good, but loaded with potential. With that said, our depth is in question and another EXPERIENCED corner should be brought in to ease the loss of Dutch, and not having Baxtor.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Heres the facts, the safeties that made the pro bowl are currently better than Sean Jones. The Browns not being on TV much is an excuse. Theres plenty of horrible teams that have good players make it out there.

                                Jones stats looked above average because we were on deffense so much.

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