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  • #91
    Originally posted by JSimmsy21
    Originally posted by JoeMontainya
    Whatever excuses you guys want to keep making as to why Jones isnt elite/made the pro bowl, why are secondary was bad, why Bodden didnt make the pro bowl/isnt quit top 10 yet, it doesnt matter! The fact is its not true yet, and weather it will be or not, the fact is its just not true right now.

    Elite safeties = Reed, Dawkins, Palamolu, etc.......

    Sean Jones didnt even make the pro bowl. He might be an all pro one day, but that doesnt even make him near elite.

    i can name 15 DB's that are better than Bodeen despite him being a very good player, hes not close to top 10.

    And if Bodden was top 10, and Jones was elite, then our secondary wouldnt have gave up so many TD's.
    one reason why jones didnt make it to the pro bowl is b/c the browns are not a nationally televised team yet. we dont play monday nights. ppl vote for who they watch. the whole country doesnt watch the browns yet. just from here to pittsburgh.

    thats great that you can name 15 db's better than bodden. thats pretty good. if there's 4 Dbacks in each standard defensive alignment, that means there are 128 starting DB's in the league. so if there are 15 better than bodden, that makes him the 16th right? i'll take that.

    2 players dont make a secondary, thats why we let so many TD's. holly is proven to be valuable, but not a starter, and as much as i like russel, he's slow.

    as far as the players that you mentioned(dawkins, palamolu, reed) ED and Troy belong to a great defense. making them that much better. and dawkins belongs to a fairly stout secondary. good players are made elite by the help of other good players. jones is a good player with a s*** DL, 2 rookie LB's. one on the decline. and one that shows up but doesn't make plays. not to mention that jones is THE ONLY PLAYER on defense to start every game.

    on another note, ed reed was drafted by savage. (see above posts)savage also says that pool is and elite player. i'll take his word for it.
    My thoughts exactly JSimmsy. Also, I'd like to take back my comment that Jones is an elite safety, since he has only started one year. However, he did have an elite year and if he continues to play like he did this past season year after year, he should be considered an elite safety.

    Also, he hasn't gone unnoticed. I believe an SI writer put Jones as a starter on his All-Pro defensive team and called it "probably the easiest decision I had to make." And it can't be said enough: Our Dline was horrendous and no secondary can look good when the QB has that much time to throw.

    Comment


    • #92
      RoyHall, I saw that you had us taking Victor Abiamiri in RD2. I feel the same way and really think he could be a monster in a year or 2 to replace McGinest.

      I really excited about the fact that he could still be there in early RD2.

      Comment


      • #93
        http://www.realgmfootball.com/src_wi...shopping_carr/

        For a third rounder I would take David Carr. Preferably a 4rth but...

        I want Frye to have competition.[/quote]

        Comment


        • #94
          i really do play the role of having anti posts. lol

          anyways. i'd be happy with taking a LB in the second rnd. but i feel, personally, that the gap of good talent on this team needs to be more filled before we go picking up more LB's in the second rnd. we need ppl for the trenches. i'd love to have carriker. even tank tyler in the second rnd. or staley. even ugoh. somebody for the trenches is what i am looking forward to.

          Comment


          • #95
            carriker. even tank tyler in the second rnd. or staley. even ugoh.
            Carriker will not get past the 1st round.

            Tank Tyler could, but would just be Ted Washingtons back-up for most the season.

            Ugoh played horrible in the senior bowl and was really esposed, if we drafted him he wouldnt even play this year.

            The DL is a hard place for a rookie to produce compared to a LB. We will probably target a DE in FA.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by JoeMontainya
              carriker. even tank tyler in the second rnd. or staley. even ugoh.
              Carriker will not get past the 1st round.

              Tank Tyler could, but would just be Ted Washingtons back-up for most the season.

              Ugoh played horrible in the senior bowl and was really esposed, if we drafted him he wouldnt even play this year.

              The DL is a hard place for a rookie to produce compared to a LB. We will probably target a DE in FA.
              you're right, carriker will more than likely go in rnd 1.

              teddy can't play a whole game. who do we have that will take his spot when he is out of breath every 3 plays? nobody.

              ugoh was just a suggestion. but staley is 100% possiblity. and that would solve our other T spot.

              Comment


              • #97
                but staley is 100% possiblity
                IMO, Staley is the same player as Eric Winston. There athletic (use to be TE's), but just dont get the job done like you exspect. Staley is a project and will be drafted on potential. He would also not play this year for the Browns unless we have injuries.

                RD2 position contributers could be a SLB, CB, or OG right away. Most other positions would take time.

                You mentioned Washington not being able to play much, its not like McGinest can either.

                A SLb is more of a skilled psoition than a NT or 3-4 DE. You can get impact DL later in the draft. Its harder to find a SLB in this draft.

                Comment


                • #98
                  in a 3-4 Defense. the DL job is to take the blocks for the LB's to get by more freely. lets take a look at some of the best 3/4 d's in the league.

                  New England. NT spot led by wilfork. has the help of seymour. this DL makes 31+ year old LB's look REALLY good. the good play of this DL make offenseive lines double team the constantly. wilfork was a first rnd pick.

                  San Deigo. NT spot led by williams. regarded as one of the most disruptive NT's in the league. same situation. he wasnt a first rnd pick. but he's damn good. two good DE's help this cause. and makes merrimans job ALOT easier, which is why he will be one of the best LB's ever to play the game.

                  Pittsburgh. NT led by Hampton. has no help from a DE. first rnd pick. he is consitantly double teamed, letting the likes of farrior and foote run freely. this team constantly applies pressure against both run and pass. with just one good DLmen.

                  Baltimore. NT led by Ngata. a first rnd pick. Ray lewis said himself that this team better draft him to make is job that much easier. he was an upgrade over Teddy.

                  my point is that the the LB in the 3/4 is a key spot. but the the NT is the heart of if all. if he doesnt supply a good rush, then he will only be single covered. meaning the LB wont be able to do anything. EVERYTHING STARTS IN THE TRENCHES.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by JoeMontainya
                    but staley is 100% possiblity
                    IMO, Staley is the same player as Eric Winston. There athletic (use to be TE's), but just dont get the job done like you exspect. Staley is a project and will be drafted on potential. He would also not play this year for the Browns unless we have injuries.
                    Do you not realize how good Winston was before his injury? You said Staley is the same, meaning a dominant Left Tackle? That's what Winston was before he hurt his knee. He was even projected to be a top 15 pick.
                    Overall: Winston is a former tight end who moved to left tackle as a sophomore in 2003. He was in the process of becoming a dominant left tackle towards the end of that season, but suffered a season-ending left knee injury four games into the 2004 season. Winston returned to the starting lineup as a senior in 2005, starting all 12 games at left tackle. Winston is a former tight end who shows impressive athletic ability for his size. He also is a mature player, who will work hard to maximize his physical tools at the next level. Had he not suffered the injury as a junior, Winston likely would have left school early and could have been a high first round pick in 2005. However, Winston was not the same dominating player in 2005 as he was prior to his 2004 season-ending knee injury.
                    Winston was never the same after his knee problems (like a lot of people, a la, Winslow who said his knee has never been the same). To say Staley will be like him is a huge plus for him considering how many teams lushed after Winston HOPING he could work past his injury and become that dominant LT.

                    They were both TE's turned LT. Both big. Both fast (winston not quite like Staley). Both very athletic due to their size.

                    He's dedicated to the game, gained 85lbs without losing any athletic ability to be able to be a force in football.

                    Lastly, who would beat out Staley if we drafted him? Tucker? Sowells? Butler? It would only be between him and Butler.

                    Originally posted by joemontainya
                    RD2 position contributers could be a SLB, CB, or OG right away. Most other positions would take time.

                    You mentioned Washington not being able to play much, its not like McGinest can either.

                    A SLb is more of a skilled psoition than a NT or 3-4 DE. You can get impact DL later in the draft. Its harder to find a SLB in this draft.
                    Not an exact quote, but something along the lines of "Offense will be the focus point of the 2007 draft." ~ Phil Savage.

                    The last guard to be drafted in round 2 by Phil Savage.....none.
                    The last guard to be drafted on the first day by Phil Savage.....Casey Rabach, by the Newsome/Savage tandem (also the only guard/center drafted by Savage on day 1)
                    It's been established that Phil thinks guards drafted on the second day can be just as or even more productive than the guards drafted first round. It is very unlikely we draft interior lineman first day.

                    McGinest not being able to play the whole game...It has already been stated that Williams WILL compete for the starting job with Willie in preseason. source: Phil's press conference. Wille will probably start but if Leon is competing against him, I guess he'll be able to relieve him as well? Leon doesn't have the preferred weight/height to play there, but Brees and Steve Smith are considered to small and they seem to do alright...

                    Lastly, please name one TRUE nose tackle for a 3/4 defense in this draft.

                    Branch, considered a 3/4 end that could be a serviceable DT. Tank, maybe. Brown and Soliai would be good fits but aren't first day material.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JSimmsy21
                      in a 3-4 Defense. the DL job is to take the blocks for the LB's to get by more freely. lets take a look at some of the best 3/4 d's in the league.

                      New England. NT spot led by wilfork. has the help of seymour. this DL makes 31+ year old LB's look REALLY good. the good play of this DL make offenseive lines double team the constantly. wilfork was a first rnd pick.

                      San Deigo. NT spot led by williams. regarded as one of the most disruptive NT's in the league. same situation. he wasnt a first rnd pick. but he's damn good. two good DE's help this cause. and makes merrimans job ALOT easier, which is why he will be one of the best LB's ever to play the game.

                      Pittsburgh. NT led by Hampton. has no help from a DE. first rnd pick. he is consitantly double teamed, letting the likes of farrior and foote run freely. this team constantly applies pressure against both run and pass. with just one good DLmen.

                      Baltimore. NT led by Ngata. a first rnd pick. Ray lewis said himself that this team better draft him to make is job that much easier. he was an upgrade over Teddy.

                      my point is that the the LB in the 3/4 is a key spot. but the the NT is the heart of if all. if he doesnt supply a good rush, then he will only be single covered. meaning the LB wont be able to do anything. EVERYTHING STARTS IN THE TRENCHES.
                      Are you trying to say that all those teams run a successful 3/4 defense and one key element is that they all have a DT that is great along with good linebackers (which the browns have)? AMAZING...

                      [sarcasm]I wonder if it's a coincidence?[/sarcasm]

                      Comment


                      • Lastly, please name one TRUE nose tackle for a 3/4 defense in this draft.
                        There are 2 very good NT prospects in next years draft we should target.

                        Secondly who cares what Savage has did in past drafts? Does it mean he will do it this time? HE NEVER HAD TO draft interior OL early with the Ravens because they managed to get a solid interior through FA. The Browns havent done that due to injuries so obviously we could look to do it in the draft.

                        If Savage wasnt interested in a day 1 OG/OC, when did he have his scouts interview just about every day 1 guard?

                        Quit speculating based on the past, because it isnt a gaurantee like you make it seem.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JSimmsy21
                          i really do play the role of having anti posts. lol

                          anyways. i'd be happy with taking a LB in the second rnd. but i feel, personally, that the gap of good talent on this team needs to be more filled before we go picking up more LB's in the second rnd. we need ppl for the trenches. i'd love to have carriker. even tank tyler in the second rnd. or staley. even ugoh. somebody for the trenches is what i am looking forward to.
                          I hope we get help for the trenches with our 1st pick, but if we don't, we almost have to in rnd 2. Again, everything depends on what we do in free agency. I think we have to target another NT in free agency as there really aren't many good NT prospects in the draft.

                          I think we need to keep our options open to take the best player available sometimes, even if he's not at a position that we really need. I don't want our hand to be forced to take a player who does not have good value at a particular spot just because we absolutely need someone at his position. This scenario would most likely happen with a NT, as there are so few of them.

                          Comment


                          • Getting Victor is almost like getting a trench player. He will be exspected to put his hand on the line sometimes just like a DE would.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JoeMontainya
                              Getting Victor is almost like getting a trench player. He will be exspected to put his hand on the line sometimes just like a DE would.
                              True, but drafting abiamari won't help our starting 3 dlinemen get any better. But, I still want to draft him as I believe he is a 1st round talent and you can never get enough LB's in a 3-4 scheme. What you said is also a good point as to why we should draft him.

                              Comment


                              • here's a little thing, fill in the blanks!


                                1) I have my fingers and toes crossed that if we keep the #3/#4 pick, we'll use it on _______________.

                                2) I'll throw a HUGE fit if we keep the #3/#4 pick and use it on _______________.

                                3) If I can't get the guy I really want with that pick, the player I want next most with that #3/#4 pick is _______________.

                                4) With the eight (I'm guessing, after compensatory picks) draft picks we'll have, I'd like to see about _____ used on offense and _____ used on defense.

                                5) If we trade down to the middle of the first round, the guy who might be there I'd really love is _______________.

                                6) But if we trade down to the middle of the first round, we better not do it to take _______________.

                                7) The mid-round prospect I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is _______________.

                                8) The late-round sleeper I'd really love to see come to Cleveland is _______________.

                                9) I'll consider this a successful draft if we can improve our ________________ unit/position.

                                10) The prospect I'd bet the farm on being a star (if I had to) is _______________.

                                11) Likewise, the guy I'd bet will be a huge giant bust is _______________.

                                12) The guy who I think will get taken way too high is _______________.

                                13) But _______________ will fall farther than he should.

                                14) The one thing we absolutely don't need is another _______________.

                                15) My one pet player for this draft - the guy nobody is talking about who I know is on his way to great things - is _______________.

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