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  • Originally posted by Cribbs>Hester View Post
    OMG did you just say veteran? Finally another Browns fan who agrees with me. I spent all draft preaching against drafting another young CB...and Phil obviously agreed we had more pressing needs. Now I'm already been hearing how we need to draft a young corner high this year...and we don't. We need a capable veteran.

    Jabari Greer will only be 27 next season and he'll be a free agent. With the drafting of McLevin and Corner I don't see Buffalo resigning him. He would be perfect for what we need in Cleveland allowing us to address the more pressing needs ala pass rushing OLB and interior lineman(McKinney, Friedman, Hadnot, Tucker are all free agents in the next 2 years and all but Hadnot are getting to that age when performance hits a hault). Also we still need a ILB or two. Orr, Davis and Griffin are all free agents next year and Davis probably wont be back. Not high though round 4 or 5 would work again.
    I disagree. We play a 3-4 defense which requires our CB to be shutdown CB's who have a lot of man to man coverage responsibilities. Teams that require shutdown CB's need to be always on the lookout for one in the draft if one is available. Depending on signing a decent FA's is a high gamble since your in a bidding war with 31 other teams and there is no guarantee you'll get a good one since few are available every year. It's easy to say sign so and so but the reality is that it is very difficult to grab a decent one no matter how hard you try.
    Buffalo plays a Cover 2 defense where their CB's play 95% of the time in zone coverage with very little man to man responsibilities. Few if any Cover 2 CB's are very good in man to man coverage so there is no guarantee that Greer can be a solid shutdown CB.
    The top priority positions on a 3-4 football team's defense is DE's, NT, OLB's and CB's in no particular order. Dallas and San Diego who play in a 3-4 defense have used very high picks on CB's so saying don't waste a #1 or even a high pick on a CB is ludicrous. When we draft, if a CB is the top talent left where we pick, we should definitely grab him without a second thought.
    Saying Savage agreed with you this year is rather silly since we drafted very late and only had a few picks. He may very easily target a CB next year when he has some high picks to use.
    I do agree that at this time we could use another veteran CB badly but finding a decent one this late is almost impossible.
    And proud of it!!!

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    • Did someone say veteran cornerback?

      http://cle.scout.com/2/781371.html

      Travis Daniels from Miami. Good enough to be a number three, more than good enough to be a number three on the Browns this year. Good enough to start in Miami possibly but they want Andre Goodman to start. Not a great player, but veteran depth who will help if we have injuries.
      Last edited by keylime_5; 08-20-2008, 03:24 PM.

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      • Originally posted by keylime_5 View Post
        Did someone say veteran cornerback?

        http://cle.scout.com/2/781371.html

        Travis Daniels from Miami. Good enough to be a number three, more than good enough to be a number three on the Browns this year. Good enough to start in Miami possibly but they want Andre Goodman to start. Not a great player, but veteran depth who will help if we have injuries.
        Me Likey!!!!!!!!

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        • Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post
          I disagree. We play a 3-4 defense which requires our CB to be shutdown CB's who have a lot of man to man coverage responsibilities.
          Is that why New England has been winning championships with average at best corners then lost it with supposedly one of the best in the game(Asante Samuel)?

          Front 7 comes before CB in a 34 anyday of the week including sundays.

          I'll say it again; you don't draft nickle and dime backs in the first round period. McDonald and Wright are young and here to be our top 2 corners. It would be a completely different story, as you mentioned with Dallas, if we had aging veterans already ala Terrence Newman and Anthony Henry. Oh and San Diego drafted Cromartie high because Florence sucks and Jammer was not even close to playing like a Top 5 pick they didn't draft him to be a nickleback.

          Oh and looks like Phil Savage agrees with me again. I'll say this one again too; we need veteran leadership in the secondary before another hot shot young gun who doesn't know a thing about the NFL again. Ya know as a Cleveland fan I'm at a loss as to why other Cleveland fans are still stuck in this draft and let them learn mode. We need guys who have already learned how to play in the NFL now. I don't want to be an up and coming young team forever. We need leadership, who is not over the hill(Fat Teddy and Slow Willie).

          A pass rushing OLB and the interior offensive line need to be addressed in rounds 1 and 2 this year before corner. Jamal Lewis is younger than LT who everyone seems to think is still fine, and young backs have a quicker learning curve...we can wait on a back.
          Last edited by Cribbs>Hester; 08-21-2008, 11:14 PM.

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          • even if brodney pool steps up and provides some leadership in calling coverages, etc., i'd be a little concerned since the concussion he suffered this week is his third in four years.

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            • Originally posted by Cribbs>Hester View Post
              Is that why New England has been winning championships with average at best corners then lost it with supposedly one of the best in the game(Asante Samuel)?

              Front 7 comes before CB in a 34 anyday of the week including sundays.

              I'll say it again; you don't draft nickle and dime backs in the first round period. McDonald and Wright are young and here to be our top 2 corners. It would be a completely different story, as you mentioned with Dallas, if we had aging veterans already ala Terrence Newman and Anthony Henry. Oh and San Diego drafted Cromartie high because Florence sucks and Jammer was not even close to playing like a Top 5 pick they didn't draft him to be a nickleback.

              Oh and looks like Phil Savage agrees with me again. I'll say this one again too; we need veteran leadership in the secondary before another hot shot young gun who doesn't know a thing about the NFL again. Ya know as a Cleveland fan I'm at a loss as to why other Cleveland fans are still stuck in this draft and let them learn mode. We need guys who have already learned how to play in the NFL now. I don't want to be an up and coming young team forever. We need leadership, who is not over the hill(Fat Teddy and Slow Willie).

              A pass rushing OLB and the interior offensive line need to be addressed in rounds 1 and 2 this year before corner. Jamal Lewis is younger than LT who everyone seems to think is still fine, and young backs have a quicker learning curve...we can wait on a back.
              agreed. front 7 is the most important. they stop the run and make the pass rush. if the front seven can do those two things, it makes the opposing offense one dimensional and also unable to find a groove, forcing bad and hurried passes. San Diego did it with an outstanding front 7. so has the steelers. New England won a super bowl with a WR playing in the secondary.

              i was actually one of the people against drafting a corner high last year. but it worked out. i disagree slightly with what you think our needs are for rounds one an two next year. but its waaay to early to tell. my early predictions are a developing center. possibly a guard. if someone like duke Robinson was available at a good spot, i'm all for it. OLB looks like a big need now, but i'm willing to bet we don't address it. Alex hall is making way more progress than what the team expected. and maybe we can finally see was Peek is made of this year.

              i'm all for a RB in round one or two next year. you say that LT is older than JLew, which is true, but only by two months. the big difference is that Lewis has a full other year in the league. but he did miss a full season with the broken leg or whatever it was, but thats all the more wear on him.

              Originally posted by barry View Post
              even if brodney pool steps up and provides some leadership in calling coverages, etc., i'd be a little concerned since the concussion he suffered this week is his third in four years.
              this is a big concern for me as well. glad to see someone else noticed. he plays a lot like polomalu, but isn't around the ball as much bc of the coverage he plays in our D.
              When will commissioner Goodell ban Al Davis from making football decisions?

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              • I don't think we're counting on Hall to become more than a situational pass rusher, if he does then that's a huge bonus. OLB is definitely a possibility for round 1 or 2 next year even if Wimbley has a big year simply b/c Peek has never stayed healthy and McGinest is retiring. Corner is not as big a need in the draft as a lot of people make it out to be, especially those who make the mock drafts on the internet. We have 2 good young CB prospects, we just need a nickel and some veteran depth. Round 1 is not an ideal place to draft a nickelback, but if Wright and/or McDonald have a bad year individually this year (cross fingers) then a RD1 corner could definitely be a possibilty this year in order to have him be the #1 corner and have either Wright or McDonald be the nickel with the other being the #2 corner.

                I really don't think we'll pick an interior offensive lineman on the first day of the draft. Savage has said before he likes to get guards and centers on day two or in free agency. Our offensive line is very good, we could get an heir apparent right guard and center in rounds 3-7 or just sign a guy who fits the system well in free agency.

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                • Hey guys-

                  I had to fill out a report on the Browns and I thought you might be interested in reading some of what I came up with.

                  -Defensively, I don't think the Browns are quite there just yet. It's a new scheme for the most important piece to the puzzle (Rogers) and it's tough to assume he'll pick it up with ease. Considering he doesn't have to the best track record in the world when it comes to his work ethic and on-field motor, the Browns front seven may again struggle to vault the defense into a playoff caliber unit. Corey Williams is a guy I like, but he still looks uncomfortable on the outside. When the Browns put four down linemen on the field and he is back inside like he was in Green Bay, he looked like an entirely different player. If he can gain confidence as the season wears on, and I'm sure he will, the front seven will be that much better but if he is still looking awkward 8 weeks from now, it's going to be a long season for you guys.

                  -Why am I putting so much weight on the D-line's shoulders? Well from what I see, the 'backers need space to be effective. Andra Davis is the lone excpetion to this rule up up the middle because he plays the hit and shed role very well. He never has been and never will be a superstar, but he is the reliable, sure tackler all 3-4 teams need. D'Qwell Jackson however, tough guy to figure. I love the speed, the quickness, the tackling ability he has but I just don't think he is in the right scheme here. He struggles to take on blocks and will instead run around them, creating massive cutback lanes. There isn't a ton of speed on this defense and if this gaping holes are going to exist, teams will continue to run wild. The OLB trio of McGinest, Wimbley, and Orr is something I like. McGinest amazes me with how quick he is off the ball considering his age. Sure, he is limited when it comes to how he can be used, but with Orr spelling him and Wimbley on the other side, these guys can really make a difference. Speaking of Wimbley...I don't think he'll ever be a star but I like the progression I have seen over the course of his young career. He still lacks the balanced attack when rushing the passer but there are few in the game that get to the edge as fast as him.

                  -I came into the process expecting very little out of the Browns secondary. While they are going to be the weak unit of the Cleveland defense, there is promise for improvement this season. I'll start with the corners. Eric Wright is still too hands happy and will get penalized a ton all year if he keeps these ways. I like and appreciate how physical he is at the line but he needs to learn how to run downfield with his man without his hands draped all over him. He still has technique work to do but if and when he gets there, he could be a legit #1 cover man. His ability to defend the short and intermediate routes compares with the best I have seen outside of the obvious top 5-6 corners in the league. I REALLY like Brandon McDonald and his issues are pretty much the opposite of Wright, which are easier to work out. He can run downfield with anybody and has the ball skills to make a play on the pass time after time. He needs to get more physical with his press coverage but he has certainly improved from last year. The combination of Sean Jones and Brodney Pool gives this secondary some credibility, although Pool could be upgraded in the future. Jones reminds me a ton of Jets safety Kerry Rhodes. He plays in the box very well, which will be needed with Jackson in there. His coverage ability is a tad underrated from what I have heard people tell me in contrast to what I saw. He has tremendous athleticism and can change direction on a dime, which is what I like in a safety.

                  -The depth on the Cleveland defense is what would have me scared. The trade for Travis Daniels was needed as Terry Cousin and AJ Davis can be picked on with ease all day. The defensive line better stay healthy all year because there is not a body in that second unit I was impressed with. Shaun Smith gets tossed around too easily and and Ahtyba Rubin lacks the consistent leverage needed at that NT spot. None of your backups along that front three offer anything when it comes to disruption against the run or pass.

                  -The major key to how your defense will perform this year revolves around Shaun Rogers. Sure you can point to a few different important facets of the scheme and whatnot, but that NT in the 3-4 is so essential to the unit's success. If he can't free up Jackson behind him, teams will run those cutback and weakside plays all day and have plenty of success. The defense as a whole will be improved, but I'm not sure it will be to the point where it gives the Browns that needed extra push into postseason action.

                  -I'll give the offensive report when I have more time.
                  Originally posted by Paul
                  Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                  Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                  These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by keylime_5 View Post
                    I don't think we're counting on Hall to become more than a situational pass rusher, if he does then that's a huge bonus. OLB is definitely a possibility for round 1 or 2 next year even if Wimbley has a big year simply b/c Peek has never stayed healthy and McGinest is retiring. Corner is not as big a need in the draft as a lot of people make it out to be, especially those who make the mock drafts on the internet. We have 2 good young CB prospects, we just need a nickel and some veteran depth. Round 1 is not an ideal place to draft a nickelback, but if Wright and/or McDonald have a bad year individually this year (cross fingers) then a RD1 corner could definitely be a possibilty this year in order to have him be the #1 corner and have either Wright or McDonald be the nickel with the other being the #2 corner.

                    I really don't think we'll pick an interior offensive lineman on the first day of the draft. Savage has said before he likes to get guards and centers on day two or in free agency. Our offensive line is very good, we could get an heir apparent right guard and center in rounds 3-7 or just sign a guy who fits the system well in free agency.
                    I tend to agree with your assessment. If our CB's play really well then obviously we won't draft one with our 1st 2 picks but if either or both prove to be a liability then a #1 shutdown CB will be a top priority. At this point it is difficult to assess.
                    If we are lucky and both CB's play well then a pass rushing OLB could be our #1 priority. It's really a tough call since our defense sucked last year and we don't know how well it will perform this coming season. Nobody afterall, knows at this point how well our players will perform. There could be a whole lot of defensive positions that still need upgrading.
                    And proud of it!!!

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                    • Well Alex Hall is playing way better OLB than Eric Wright is playing CB. If Hall keeps playing well, earns playing time and proves he can be an effective player like he's been all day today then by all means Savage draft a 1st round corner because, as it looks now(this game is the same old same old) you obviously missed on this Eric Wright punk.

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                      • Wright was solid last year as a rookie, and just inconsistent so far this preseason. Bright spots with a few mistakes, but the key word in the last sentence is preseason. Hall is a raw raw rookie OLB with the athletic ability who needs to figure out how to consistently get into the backfield before he can even get a role as a situational pass rusher.

                        Wright at CB covered Randy Moss pretty well as a rookie even though there was a safety in the neighborhood most of the time. You make it sound like Wright is on the path to being a bust, but that is not the case at all considering how much he improved week to week last year in his first year in the league. He does need to improve upon his ball skills running deep in man coverage, but his hips and footwork is fantastic for a guy that young. Mentally he will improve with experience which has really been where his only problems were.

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                        • Hey guys I have Jamal Lewis as a RB for my fantasy team. Is his hamstring injury serious or should I pick up Wright just in case?
                          Penn State University - Detroit Red Wings - New York Jets - Red Bull New York - Fulham FC

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                          • Wright was pretty damn good last year...Savage didn't "miss" on him because he's having a bad preseason.

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                            • Wait I don't think you really answered my question.
                              Penn State University - Detroit Red Wings - New York Jets - Red Bull New York - Fulham FC

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                              • Originally posted by TimDris View Post
                                Wait I don't think you really answered my question.
                                Wasn't responding to you...but Lewis should be ready to go for the season. Just watch for updates on his condition.

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