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Official Browns 2011 Draft Thread

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  • Originally posted by j05son View Post
    I actually thought this too. Not a lot of names in free agency and Heckert likes Mitchell. However I think Mitchell is a LDE and Sheard will move to RDE. Mitchell is a big boy weighing around 285.
    Well, if we do resign Mitchell, do you think we see subpackages with Benard and Sheard at DE and Mitchell kicked inside to DT? Or is there any chance we leave Benard at LB and try to bring him off the edge as an additional pass rusher?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by fear the elf View Post
      Well, if we do resign Mitchell, do you think we see subpackages with Benard and Sheard at DE and Mitchell kicked inside to DT? Or is there any chance we leave Benard at LB and try to bring him off the edge as an additional pass rusher?
      In one of Heckert's pre-draft pressers, he said he was expecting our ends to be 250's max. He also stated that Mitchell (who's a FA) is our best pass rusher. I've also heard him say that none of the coaches have had a chance to look at Benard (who is also a FA - we hold exclusive rights) and that they can only project him as a de for now but have also heard Heckert say that Benard would be a situational pass rusher at worst.

      Mitchell 285 lbs
      Sheard 265 lbs
      Benard 255 lbs.

      Seems like Benard could be a RE and played as a rush DE in college (Grand Rapids Community College and Jackson St) where he combined for 46 sacks total with 16 sacks in one year. Not against the best schools or anything, but still a lot of sacks.

      Mitchell could swing inside on obvious passing situations to get more pressure in the middle. Benard is definitely versatile enough to be a LB but I would expect to see him on the line just rushing the QB. That's what he does best. It's definitely nice to have guys who are versatile enough to play different positions though.

      Let's get some activity going in the Cleveland sub-forum!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Balls Deep
        No Heckert said his DEs in Philly were 250 lbs maxed, you're mis quoting him. He didn't specify to what he expected in Cleveland just that undersized, light guys work/fit/can be productive.
        No, it's not a misquote. Heckert was asked a direct question of how light would he go on DE and he answered that he and Dick [Jauron] had 250 max in Philly. By indirectly answering the media's question with what he used at his previous stop, you can insinuate the same format would be used here or at the very least the blueprint.

        Here's an exercise:

        ME: "Mike Holmgren, what offense would you be most comfortable running here in Cleveland?"

        MH: "Well, I used the west coast offense in Seattle."

        Although Mike didn't come out and say "I feel most comfortable in a WCO" he did insinuate that's what he would be most comfortable in running.
        Last edited by j05son; 05-14-2011, 07:21 PM.

        Let's get some activity going in the Cleveland sub-forum!

        Comment


        • During one of the press conferences, Holmgren wouldn't say whether Vickers was tendered, although I'm sure he was. Too good of a player not to get something if we end up losing him. One of the best FB's in the league, and I think catches the ball better than is given credit for. Devasting blocker and has a fiery knock you out attitude. I doubt Marecic his rookie year could equal what Vickers did for the Browns the past couple of seasons.

          I don't see why they both can't be on the 53-man roster. The rookie could play ST's like Vickers did his rookie season, and backup at FB. Might come at the expense of someone like Ventrone, but tough decisions have to be made. And even though they've stated Marecic will not play at LB, I'd be interested in finding out if he can play there as well. Although in future years as his rookie year he'll have enough trouble learning FB and ST's at the NFL level.

          Overall our braintrust did a good job in the draft. Now I'd like to see QB Pat Devlin and Sanzenbacher signed as rookie FA's. I like Devlin's accuracy and believe he has enough physical ability to develop, even if it's on the practice squad for a year or two.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by j05son View Post
            No, it's not a misquote. Heckert was asked a direct question of how light would he go on DE and he answered that he and Dick [Jauron] had 250 max in Philly. By indirectly answering the media's question with what he used at his previous stop, you can insinuate the same format would be used here or at the very least the blueprint.
            While I agree, you can insinuate that, you could also argue that by drafting Sheard in the 2nd round at 265lbs, he is going against that philosophy; or, that is a general guideline not to be followed too strictly.

            /devil's advocate

            Comment


            • Originally posted by fear the elf View Post
              While I agree, you can insinuate that, you could also argue that by drafting Sheard in the 2nd round at 265lbs, he is going against that philosophy; or, that is a general guideline not to be followed too strictly.

              /devil's advocate
              Sounds like we may be using a lot of Cover 2 type defense. Just means smaller DE's whose main job is to rush the passer and not worry so much about stopping the run. Anything 270 and under.
              Maybe Rubin and Taylor will spell each other while another smaller DT is used beside both.
              Jauron used the Cover 2 while HC of Buffalo so he likes that defense.
              And proud of it!!!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by fear the elf View Post
                While I agree, you can insinuate that, you could also argue that by drafting Sheard in the 2nd round at 265lbs, he is going against that philosophy; or, that is a general guideline not to be followed too strictly.

                /devil's advocate
                At the same time, Sheard is a prototypical LDE who are usually bigger.

                Also, this is from Grossi

                * Jauron expressed some intrigue in experimenting with linebacker Marcus Benard as a full-time defensive end. As a situational pass rusher, Benard, 6-2 and 256 pounds, produced 11 sacks in 21 NFL games under former coach Eric Mangini.

                At the very least, Jauron said he expects Benard will continue in a pass rush role on obvious passing downs.

                "We definitely have to find out about a lot of (the players)," Jauron said, "but we do believe that that may be a good spot for (Benard) and we've talked about that. It's kind of what we're looking at as we eventually get him here. We'll put his hand on the ground. We'll stand him up. And then we'll make decisions. But absolutely he'll get an opportunity to play that (situational) position, too."
                Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post
                Sounds like we may be using a lot of Cover 2 type defense. Just means smaller DE's whose main job is to rush the passer and not worry so much about stopping the run. Anything 270 and under.
                Maybe Rubin and Taylor will spell each other while another smaller DT is used beside both.
                Jauron used the Cover 2 while HC of Buffalo so he likes that defense.
                Our defensive tackles are Phil Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin - that screams a 2 gap 4-3. Jauron ran a 2 gap at Jacksonville and Chicago and I'm pretty sure with Detriot (you should know that one). The 2 gap 4-3 is not the base defense for a cover 2.
                Last edited by j05son; 05-16-2011, 06:53 PM.

                Let's get some activity going in the Cleveland sub-forum!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by j05son View Post
                  Our defensive tackles are Phil Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin - that screams a 2 gap 4-3. Jauron ran a 2 gap at Jacksonville and Chicago and I'm pretty sure with Detriot (you should know that one). The 2 gap 4-3 is not the base defense for a cover 2.
                  I've heard that a few times, and i really like the idea of two exceptionally large DT's holding up 3 or 4 blockers freeing up one-on-one's for the DE's. Hopefully we'll actually be able to execute it :)

                  NFLN was doing their 32 teams in 32 days segment about the Browns, and they were questioning why we let Shaun Rogers go. They thought he could mentor Phil Taylor and teach him how to play.

                  McGinest questioned why we let go of our linebackers when we need linebackers... They were saying these things as they put the answer right up on the screen, showing how old every single player was. Not to mention the fact that none of those LB's really fit our scheme anymore.

                  I've got to wonder how Brian Baldinger keeps his job, he's pretty much awful. I'll give Willie McGinest a pass since he's pretty new to the whole media thing.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by j05son View Post
                    At the same time, Sheard is a prototypical LDE who are usually bigger.

                    Also, this is from Grossi





                    Our defensive tackles are Phil Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin - that screams a 2 gap 4-3. Jauron ran a 2 gap at Jacksonville and Chicago and I'm pretty sure with Detriot (you should know that one). The 2 gap 4-3 is not the base defense for a cover 2.
                    All I'm saying is that Jauron prefers the Cover 2 defense since as a HC, that is what he used when it was his decision, and it fits with smaller DE's.
                    At this point I'm not sure Rubin and Taylor will be on the field together, as I said, they could rotate and have a 1 gap penetrator play the other DT.
                    I guess only time will tell which direction they go, I certainly don't know, just suggesting possibilities.
                    And proud of it!!!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by fear the elf View Post
                      I've heard that a few times, and i really like the idea of two exceptionally large DT's holding up 3 or 4 blockers freeing up one-on-one's for the DE's. Hopefully we'll actually be able to execute it :)

                      NFLN was doing their 32 teams in 32 days segment about the Browns, and they were questioning why we let Shaun Rogers go. They thought he could mentor Phil Taylor and teach him how to play.

                      McGinest questioned why we let go of our linebackers when we need linebackers... They were saying these things as they put the answer right up on the screen, showing how old every single player was. Not to mention the fact that none of those LB's really fit our scheme anymore.

                      I've got to wonder how Brian Baldinger keeps his job, he's pretty much awful. I'll give Willie McGinest a pass since he's pretty new to the whole media thing.
                      I saw that too. Rogers is/has always been an undisciplined player, now aging. I def think Rubin is better equipped to mentor a young DT. He's made himself into a starter through hard work and mastering technique.

                      Did you notice how flat and unemotional the HC looked? He looks like he's been battered down by a tough season already. I have no idea what his on field personality is but he sure didn't look like the guy you choose to get the troops going..lol. Eh, I'm just being overcritical with this lockout humdrum but I'm curious what Rams/Eagles fans thought about his personality.

                      Originally posted by borg9
                      Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Brown Leader View Post
                        I saw that too. Rogers is/has always been an undisciplined player, now aging. I def think Rubin is better equipped to mentor a young DT. He's made himself into a starter through hard work and mastering technique.

                        Did you notice how flat and unemotional the HC looked? He looks like he's been battered down by a tough season already. I have no idea what his on field personality is but he sure didn't look like the guy you choose to get the troops going..lol. Eh, I'm just being overcritical with this lockout humdrum but I'm curious what Rams/Eagles fans thought about his personality.
                        Don't know much about Shurmer's personality but I can tell you many if not most Rams fans were very dissatisfied with his play calling during his tenure as Rams OC.

                        I hope that he progressses in that area as the Browns coach or, better yet, hands over the job to somebody else.

                        Granted the Rams have a lot of talent issues on the offense, but I still feel he was overly conservative in that he tried not to lose games instead of going for it and making some gutsy calls to win them.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ArkyRamsFan View Post
                          Don't know much about Shurmer's personality but I can tell you many if not most Rams fans were very dissatisfied with his play calling during his tenure as Rams OC.

                          I hope that he progressses in that area as the Browns coach or, better yet, hands over the job to somebody else.

                          Granted the Rams have a lot of talent issues on the offense, but I still feel he was overly conservative in that he tried not to lose games instead of going for it and making some gutsy calls to win them.
                          Yeah, it is called a rookie QB. Even then, the Rams almost made the playoffs.
                          And proud of it!!!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post
                            Yeah, it is called a rookie QB. Even then, the Rams almost made the playoffs.
                            If Shurmer continues to call games with his new rookie QB, Colt McCoy, like he did with Sam Bradford then the Browns will also be playing not to lose which is usually a recipe just that-losing.

                            BTW Sam started every game and took every snap last year. At what point is he no longer a rookie?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ArkyRamsFan View Post
                              If Shurmer continues to call games with his new rookie QB, Colt McCoy, like he did with Sam Bradford then the Browns will also be playing not to lose which is usually a recipe just that-losing.

                              BTW Sam started every game and took every snap last year. At what point is he no longer a rookie?
                              When it's not his first year in the league. =p

                              Honestly though, all OC's limit a lot of the playbook or call a little safer while their young QB transitions into the pro game. You don't want to destroy your QB's confidence by taking shots that end up being mistakes, interceptions, etc.

                              The only rams game I watched was our preseason game and it was what it was - a preseason game. Not worth analyzing play calling in a game that means nothing as I'm sure they were saving a lot of their playbook or just running generic stuff that's been scouted already.

                              So I don't have any knowledge of Pat's play calling but I hope he opens it up a bit more as the conservative approach will only go so far with Cleveland fans. I would like to have a head coach for more than 3 seasons...

                              Let's get some activity going in the Cleveland sub-forum!

                              Comment


                              • well it's not like Sam had a very bad year with Shurmur's playcalling so we can't complain if McCoy looks as good as Colt did last year. I think it will be slightly different though in Cleveland now that he is the head coach not just the OC, and playing in the AFC North with Hillis and Hardesty and a legit tight end to throw to and a guy like Josh Cribbs that can do so many things will change the gameplans a little more too. Conservative doesn't mean bad, we've seen more than our fair share of aggressive calls get burned in Browns football over the recent seasons. Jauron and Shurmur might be a little more conservative than what fans prefer, but with a young team that might not be a bad thing.

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