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  • #46
    Funny how some can be so self-righteous about these types of things.

    It's a no risk type of deal.
    In war, you win or lose, live or die - and the difference is just an eyelash.


    -Douglas MacArthur

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    • #47
      Originally posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
      You're not aware of the history of the Cowboys are you? Half of the guys on those Superbowl teams (both of them) did coke off of dead hookers at halftime.
      yea im sure you were right there with them....and which of those players were free agent signings? as I asked before since you know better then I do...care to name players, or just say "half of those guys"





      Originally posted by Scott Wright
      I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by robert_in_bigd View Post
        Horrible signing but nothing surprises me with Jerrah GM.

        Unless we "are inventorying" Tank for a trade or switching to a newer, more fashionable 4-3, I don't get it.

        I am sure nearly everyone thinks it is great but don't count me.

        Jerry is the George Steinbrenner of Football. Just sign big names and pray it helps the team and fits the scheme!
        you make jerry jones sound like daniel snyder, which he is far from...snyder is the one who signs big names, doesnt build through the draft, trades away draft picks every year etc etc...


        yea he may not be a perfect fit, but so what? he doesnt cost much, he will be less then 285K with only an 8 game salary, and we need another huge body in the center with talent...you find a way for everything to be negative and then throw jerry under the bus, as if it would be better if we sat around and kept who we had it would be alot better...


        if it doesnt work out, so what? look at the cost of things, he's cheaper then a rookie right now anyway, and your probably in the minority again as to those who think this signing is "dumb" or pointless...


        But I guess hamlin was pointless as well, TO, Leonard Davis, all those guys were signings that didnt fit and just big names...i think you do have us confused with the redskins, half our team is draft picks not FA signings





        Originally posted by Scott Wright
        I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
          you make jerry jones sound like daniel snyder, which he is far from...snyder is the one who signs big names, doesnt build through the draft, trades away draft picks every year etc etc...
          Not as short sided but going along the same path. At least Snyder does not play Player Personnel -- he just throws around money to toys his coaches want.

          Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
          yea he may not be a perfect fit, but so what? he doesnt cost much, he will be less then 285K with only an 8 game salary,
          He costs you a roster spot on D.

          Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
          and we need another huge body in the center with talent...
          Ratliff is as good as Tank Johnson in the type of role Tank played in Chi.

          Tank is not a big body by any NT standard.

          Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
          you find a way for everything to be negative and then throw jerry under the bus, as if it would be better if we sat around and kept who we had it would be alot better...
          Sometimes, you gotta stand still to let the storm pass.

          Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
          if it doesnt work out, so what? look at the cost of things, he's cheaper then a rookie right now anyway, and your probably in the minority again as to those who think this signing is "dumb" or pointless...
          Just throwing a body at it instead of paying up for a potentially smart solution.

          Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
          But I guess hamlin was pointless as well, TO, Leonard Davis, all those guys were signings that didnt fit and just big names...i think you do have us confused with the redskins, half our team is draft picks not FA signings
          I liked TO at the time but would have let him go to keep BP. Still would.

          I liked Leonard Davis but would have preferred Hutch in 2006 and saved ourselves that horrid Kosier signing.

          I like Hamlin as a player but he is a SS and we already have Davis and Watkins and Elam (who was cut) plus "The Player" who can't play any DB role. All are SS types.

          BTW, Hamlin too was a Jerrah Jones cheap it out move. Cheap in the sense that he values his draft picks way too much. Jeez, heaven forbid you give up some draft picks to get real FS or NT value from another team. How about a second for Kris Jenkins or Gabe Watson.

          No, can't do that. Jerrah loves him his draft picks. He gets to say "I did it" if he ever wins another SB.

          Like the Switzer move. Completely stupid but he did it to prove a point. Sad fact is that point proved just how valuable a real GM (Johnson) was to building the team b/c it was all down hill talent and "fit" wise from 1994.

          We are going down hill as we speak right now. Just takes time for the results to come in.
          Last edited by robert_in_bigd; 09-19-2007, 12:29 PM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
            You're not aware of the history of the Cowboys are you? Half of the guys on those Superbowl teams (both of them) did coke off of dead hookers at halftime.
            Let's go to the Video tape!

            I don't like the signing, but I understand why, Cowboys to the Super bowl. WOW.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by robert_in_bigd View Post
              Sure it does, it took away a roster spot from another player who could help.

              Who helps out more is definately a "You Don't Know" situation.

              You are just placing bets. It is not a zero sum game.
              If Jones passes waivers today he will be brought back tomorrow. Not sure how that is taking away a roster spot....it's one day.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by robert_in_bigd View Post
                Cheap in the sense that he values his draft picks way too much. Jeez, heaven forbid you give up some draft picks to get real FS or NT value from another team. How about a second for Kris Jenkins or Gabe Watson.

                No, can't do that. Jerrah loves him his draft picks. He gets to say "I did it" if he ever wins another SB.

                well guess you cant make everyone happy...I guess you would like us better like the redskins that get 2 draft picks per year and trade the rest away, one first day, one second day and call it a draft...heaven forbid an owner wanting to build through the draft then FA, ya I cant believe Jerry and his antics





                Originally posted by Scott Wright
                I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by robert_in_bigd View Post
                  Not as short sided but going along the same path. At least Snyder does not play Player Personnel -- he just throws around money to toys his coaches want.



                  He costs you a roster spot on D.



                  Ratliff is as good as Tank Johnson in the type of role Tank played in Chi.

                  Tank is not a big body by any NT standard.



                  Sometimes, you gotta stand still to let the storm pass.



                  Just throwing a body at it instead of paying up for a potentially smart solution.



                  I liked TO at the time but would have let him go to keep BP. Still would.

                  I liked Leonard Davis but would have preferred Hutch in 2006 and saved ourselves that horrid Kosier signing.

                  I like Hamlin as a player but he is a SS and we already have Davis and Watkins and Elam (who was cut) plus "The Player" who can't play any DB role. All are SS types.

                  BTW, Hamlin too was a Jerrah Jones cheap it out move. Cheap in the sense that he values his draft picks way too much. Jeez, heaven forbid you give up some draft picks to get real FS or NT value from another team. How about a second for Kris Jenkins or Gabe Watson.

                  No, can't do that. Jerrah loves him his draft picks. He gets to say "I did it" if he ever wins another SB.

                  Like the Switzer move. Completely stupid but he did it to prove a point. Sad fact is that point proved just how valuable a real GM (Johnson) was to building the team b/c it was all down hill talent and "fit" wise from 1994.

                  We are going down hill as we speak right now. Just takes time for the results to come in.
                  This is absolutely ridiculous. The point is that Johnson is not replacing Ratliff, but the Cowboys are rather trying to upgrade the position and bring in some fresh legs midway through the season. NT is a position that NEEDS depth. Right now, depth is seriously lacking. By signing Johnson, you give Ratliff a period to settle in and prove himself as a starter, and then you bring in a fresh guy to spell Ratliff as his legs get more tired. Remember, Ratliff has never started for a full season, and has played minimal amounts of nose tackle. Tank gives us a guy who can provide insurance in case Jay starts to wear out.

                  If the coaching staff didn't think Jay could do it, they would have gone out and gotten someone to play the nose tackle position immediately, not signed someone who won't be able to play until Week 9. Personally, when it comes down to it, I'd rather have Tank Johnson than Remi Ayodele (who is the guy who probably gets cut once Johnson gets off the suspended list).

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I would like to take this space to extol the virtue of the ignore list.

                    Thank you.
                    Originally posted by 21ST
                    He was protecting his self
                    Originally posted by tjsunstein
                    From what? His leg?
                    Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck
                    That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
                    "We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

                    DeMarcus Ware

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
                      well guess you cant make everyone happy...I guess you would like us better like the redskins that get 2 draft picks per year and trade the rest away, one first day, one second day and call it a draft...heaven forbid an owner wanting to build through the draft then FA, ya I cant believe Jerry and his antics
                      If we went off and gave the Arizona Cardinals a 2nd for Watson -- I would be much happier.

                      I just think Tank Johnson is a Ratliff clone and I DEFINATELY don't think that is what is needed.

                      But hey, if throwing a body at the problem is what we want. Sure why not. Throw a body at it and call it a day.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by DMWSackMachine View Post
                        I would like to take this space to extol the virtue of the ignore list.

                        Thank you.
                        Whatever, just because I don't parrot popular opinions.

                        Just because I say better to give away something and get something of value then try to get a FA freebie?

                        Whatever. Most of you are simply apologists. There is simply nothing Jerrah does that is not fine and the thinking usually starts with "maybe" and "you never know" or "He is a beast."

                        I just have a hard time understanding how Tank Johnson suddenly becomes a NT or for that matter why folks are so rah rah on this.

                        It is like saying you need a Closer in baseball then go sign a starter and say "He can do it!" Yeah, maybe, a beast as a starter but ..... big but.

                        But I am an independent thinker and don't drink kool aid. It explains the ferocity of the rah rah club.
                        Last edited by robert_in_bigd; 09-19-2007, 07:11 PM.

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                        • #57
                          You rub people the wrong way. That's the gist of it. You're very combative, and your posts tend to be very annoying. A man can only see "AHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA" typed out so many times before he stops reading your posts entirely.

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                          • #58
                            Rob, your stance on Tank is based off a lot of assumptions. You are entitled to them, but you can't try to convince us on them.

                            You say he takes up a roster spot. You know who should be worried? Remi Ayodele.

                            Does anyone know if Tank takes up a roster spot now or when he ends his suspension?

                            Is Ratliff as good as Johnson as you claim? It's an assumption, but you may be right. But nobody is saying that Johnson is unseating Ratliff without having to battle for the starting spot.

                            You say Tank isn't a NT by NFL standards. His height isn't a problem, so you must be worried about his weight. Do you know his current weight? He's been out of football for a long time now without training camp. Guys like him don't usually lose weight while they sit watching TV at home. Another factor that you don't consider is that perhaps he can get to a weight that Phillips wants him at. He has 6-8 weeks to get there. I agree that he's not a prototype NT. But I disagree that size makes the player. I honestly would prefer Tank over Gabe Watson. What exactly has Gabe proven in this league? And you want to give up a second rounder for him? That's nuts! Tank is more proven. His Bears teammates can attest to his value. Despite his personal problems, his Bears teammates supported him and miss him to this day.

                            You're also assuming that by this signing that all of our offseaon plans on addressing the NT situation are gone... no more. I don't know where you get that.

                            You're also assuming that the Panthers would be willing to give up Jenkins for a second. I haven't heard much about Jenkins being on the market. On the other hand, we don't know if Jerry approached him either. He could have, and he could have been rejected. If you knew all of the ongoing behind the scenes that would be one thing, but you're points are all based off assumption.

                            We were never in the Hutch hunt and the money he got for a Guard is atrocious. If anything, I would've preferred Mark Wahle over Marco Rivera.

                            You also claim we're apologists for Jerry. That's not true. He's a work in progress. He's made plenty of bad moves. So has Parcells. I know you like Parcells and I do as well, but he's not without fault. Parcells couldn't build an OL in this era. ...and I still get upset thinking about passing on Steven Jackson for Julius Jones and Marcus Spears. gah. Parcells made up for it, which brings me back to appreciation. That's something you need to realize as well. As much as Jerry has done bad in the past, he has also done some good.

                            Jury is still out on Tank. Money is cheap, contract can be terminated at any time. I don't see what we have to lose.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by robert_in_bigd View Post
                              Whatever, just because I don't parrot popular opinions.

                              Just because I say better to give away something and get something of value then try to get a FA freebie?

                              Whatever. Most of you are simply apologists. There is simply nothing Jerrah does that is not fine and the thinking usually starts with "maybe" and "you never know" or "He is a beast."

                              I just have a hard time understanding how Tank Johnson suddenly becomes a NT or for that matter why folks are so rah rah on this.

                              It is like saying you need a Closer in baseball then go sign a starter and say "He can do it!" Yeah, maybe, a beast as a starter but ..... big but.

                              But I am an independent thinker and don't drink kool aid. It explains the ferocity of the rah rah club.


                              i honestly cant find many or one person here that is excited about the signing of tank johnson to the extent that we think its going to put us over the top and into the superbowl, or that he's a perfect fit...you want to give up a 2nd rd pick for gabe watson who has done what thus far? and a 2nd rd pick at that???


                              i find it hard to believe how you think that would be better then signing a proven player with ability, for less then a rookie contract, with no long term ties to him...He doesnt even have to play NT the entire year, he can come in on nickel and dime to a position that is alot like what he did in chicago...your so quick to bash moves and Jerry before you see anything played out or what the outcome would be, no one here is giddy with joy saying "yes jerry is awesome and so smart i love tank johnson"


                              its pretty much consesus we need the large body on the D line, bringing in a proven guy with alot of upside and potential left...unless you think it would of been smarter to bring in kris jenkins who has how many good years left? and i guess you would want to give up a high pick on him as well with no guarantees how that would work out with all those reports going around about him being out of shape and losing a step...its ok to have an opinion, but god forbid anyone in this forum look at a decision with some optimism and to you that screams homer or unrealistic





                              Originally posted by Scott Wright
                              I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                Rob, your stance on Tank is based off a lot of assumptions. You are entitled to them, but you can't try to convince us on them.
                                Funny enough I do NOT want to convince you I am right, I want you to convince me I am wrong.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                Is Ratliff as good as Johnson as you claim? It's an assumption, but you may be right. But nobody is saying that Johnson is unseating Ratliff without having to battle for the starting spot.
                                To be precise, I saying Ratliff is similar to Tank and I just don't see the value of two of them.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                You say Tank isn't a NT by NFL standards. His height isn't a problem, so you must be worried about his weight. Do you know his current weight? He's been out of football for a long time now without training camp.
                                Weight and experience. He does not have the experience either and he looks thin.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                Guys like him don't usually lose weight while they sit watching TV at home. Another factor that you don't consider is that perhaps he can get to a weight that Phillips wants him at. He has 6-8 weeks to get there. I agree that he's not a prototype NT. But I disagree that size makes the player. I honestly would prefer Tank over Gabe Watson. What exactly has Gabe proven in this league?
                                Yes to Gabe. Gabe can be a 3-4 NT and can be an excellent young player for years to come in a 3-4.

                                I think Gabe is two times as likely to be a successful 3-4 NT than Tank.... b/c Tank is thin, lighter, and much better 4-3 DT.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                And you want to give up a second rounder for him? That's nuts!
                                To be precise, I say that I would prefer we spend a 2nd rounder on a Gabe type solution then sign Tank for nothing.

                                That is I prefer to spend NFL Currency on Gabe then get Tank for free.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                Tank is more proven. His Bears teammates can attest to his value. Despite his personal problems, his Bears teammates supported him and miss him to this day.
                                I am sure he is a great guy.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                You're also assuming that by this signing that all of our offseaon plans on addressing the NT situation are gone... no more. I don't know where you get that.
                                I did not say that nor did I assume it per se. So not sure where you are going with that. You are putting words in my mouth.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                You're also assuming that the Panthers would be willing to give up Jenkins for a second. I haven't heard much about Jenkins being on the market.
                                To be precise, I say that I would prefer we spend a 2nd rounder on a Jenkins type solution then sign Tank for nothing.

                                That is I prefer to spend NFL Currency on Jenkins then get Tank for free.

                                Plus there where rumors in TC that Jenkins was on the block.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                On the other hand, we don't know if Jerry approached him either. He could have, and he could have been rejected. If you knew all of the ongoing behind the scenes that would be one thing, but you're points are all based off assumption.
                                I assume that if you are willing to PAY UP some team will let go of a young unproven but promising NT.

                                That is all I assume. You got NFL CUrrency and you can do something.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                We were never in the Hutch hunt and the money he got for a Guard is atrocious. If anything, I would've preferred Mark Wahle over Marco Rivera.
                                No sure what Hutch and Marco have to do with each other. Hutch was a 2005 FA. Marco and Wahle 2004 FA.

                                All I said was Jerrah did not spend on Hutch in 2005. Spent on TO, Vanderjerk and Kosier. I would have rather spent on Hutch and some other guys.

                                The ramification of this move by Jerrah was we paid up for Bigg one year later.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                You also claim we're apologists for Jerry. That's not true. He's a work in progress.
                                I think after 15 years on-the-job I would hardly call Jerrah a work in progress.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                He's made plenty of bad moves. So has Parcells. I know you like Parcells and I do as well, but he's not without fault.
                                This is not a BP discussion but fact is I understood what Parcells was doing when he went for certain pieces of the puzzle. Carpenter while not what I wanted (Lawson) made sense if you keep DWare at WOLB. I felt Ware to SOLB and Lawson to WOLB.

                                Fasano made sense even though I felt we did not really need another starting caliber TE. Just a waste in my book because the kid would not get the chance to play (liek Burnett).

                                Jerrah's moves make no sense to me. The only one I got was Bigg. That is it.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                Parcells couldn't build an OL in this era. ...and I still get upset thinking about passing on Steven Jackson for Julius Jones and Marcus Spears. gah.
                                Parcells goes down for Spears. He ran the 2005 draft.

                                Jerrah does down for 2003 and 2004. So throw him and Dopey Scout guy from the 1990s under the bus for Julius.

                                On the OL, I disagree. I just think Peterman and Jacobs where busts and it forced us to find value elsewhere.

                                Colombo comes to mind. A few of the young back-up guys have been brought in under BP's time here to.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                Parcells made up for it, which brings me back to appreciation. That's something you need to realize as well. As much as Jerry has done bad in the past, he has also done some good.
                                I just don't get any of Jerrah plays other than the occasional trade down manuever in the draft.

                                I have said that putting together a team is like a puzzle. Any old piece will not do even if it looks right. It has to fit.

                                I think our current D is a prime example of this. 7 first rounders and 3 high priced FA and yet .......... still sucks.

                                No one philosophy that is consistent over time guiding the building of th team.

                                It is just us taking advantage of one opportunity after another. Each looks OK but cumulatively looks dumb.

                                Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                Jury is still out on Tank. Money is cheap, contract can be terminated at any time. I don't see what we have to lose.
                                Well, in that sense sure. I root for this team every weekend (een with Daryl Clack TB)but frankly I don't get what they are doing in a pure anaytical sense.

                                I wish Tank the best. I just don't see a reason to hope for it.

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