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  • Originally posted by thule View Post
    ....no way can you paint Austin as a problem off the field.
    I did? Where did I do that?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CDCB14 View Post
      ..... get better value in return. .......
      No, that is not the idea. Not to get better value b/c it won't happen but get some value back in other positions of deep need.

      When you got tooo many bananas, no matter how much you like bananas, it is not a bad idea to trade them for apples even if you don't like apples as much.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by baghdadbob View Post
        I did? Where did I do that?
        I didn't say you did...but in the context i was using "you" as like the person who would say Austin is bad off the field. That doesn't make a ton of sense...but I just meant there wasn't ANYONE who could say Austin is a trouble maker or cancer. My b

        you don't pay players to play for other teams unless they are cancerous....no way can you paint Austin as a problem off the field.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by thule View Post
          I didn't say you did...but in the context i was using "you" as like the person who would say Austin is bad off the field. That doesn't make a ton of sense...but I just meant there wasn't ANYONE who could say Austin is a trouble maker or cancer. My b
          So I am like someone who might say he is a bad influence in spite of the fact no one thinks he is a bad influence? Come again?

          Bro, all I said very early on if you read is we need to consider trading from positions of strength in order to shore up our weaknesses.

          Romo if Luck is around. Witten. Austin. MBIII. Choice. Come to mind as possible players. Also some undervalued guys like Bowen, Hatcher, etc.

          At 1-7 with our recent player personnel mistakes it makes sense to take a fresh look at everything -- even if it sounds taboo.

          But, hey, maybe better coaching is enuff and we need no changes whatsoever outside of the draft and a spot FA.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by baghdadbob
            So I am like someone who might say he is a bad influence in spite of the fact no one thinks he is a bad influence? Come again?

            Bro, all I said very early on if you read is we need to consider trading from positions of strength in order to shore up our weaknesses.

            Romo if Luck is around. Witten. Austin. MBIII. Choice. Come to mind as possible players. Also some undervalued guys like Bowen, Hatcher, etc.

            At 1-7 with our recent player personnel mistakes it makes sense to take a fresh look at everything -- even if it sounds taboo.

            But, hey, maybe better coaching is enuff and we need no changes whatsoever outside of the draft and a spot FA.
            Not a slight on Jerry or anything but no GM on the planet is going to be willing to trade a player for the likes of Miles Austin/Jason Witten. Still way to productive and thus no team has the pieces to trade fair market value.(which has to be considered in a league which already has massive Anti-trust issues with congress)

            It's a pipe dream spawned straight out of Madden.

            Now trading Miles Austin is ******* ridiculous. Yes we currently have the luxury of having three potentially Pro Bowl recievers. But with the lack of progress of our depth this year it would be ridiculous to trade our best reciever.(any reciever based on that previous information)

            I can understand the idea of trading Witten with Bennett sitting there waiting for work. But there has been a total lack of faith in him from the coaching staff. That there is a worrying sign. At the moment you could probably buy Witten as the fourth reciever. Utilising Bennett as your blocking TE. It's still very tough to expect the Cowboys to trade away the greatest TE in franchise history. I guess it's a matter of getting the correct type of offer(2nd round pick) You definately wouldn't get a player for player trade.(Might have considered Gaither for Witten trade earlier in the year)

            Romo trade is beyond belief stupidity. There is NOTHING you could get in return that would ve a)fair market value and b) How often do teams trade for Pro Bowl Quarterbacks coming off injuries that DON'T effect there throwing arm. This is a broken bone. Not a Shoulder muscle injury like Brees.

            As for drafting QB with the first overall pick. What happens when he can't usurp Romo for five or so years? Drafted QB will be traded long before that. But what are the chances we can capitalise and nab two firsts with such a trade? Even if it's simply to trade out of the spot. You need a buyer willing to bet the farm on him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by shane_man View Post
              Not a slight on Jerry or anything but no GM on the planet is going to be willing to trade a player for the likes of Miles Austin/Jason Witten. Still way to productive and thus no team has the pieces to trade fair market value.(which has to be considered in a league which already has massive Anti-trust issues with congress)

              It's a pipe dream spawned straight out of Madden.

              Now trading Miles Austin is ******* ridiculous. Yes we currently have the luxury of having three potentially Pro Bowl recievers. But with the lack of progress of our depth this year it would be ridiculous to trade our best reciever.(any reciever based on that previous information)

              I can understand the idea of trading Witten with Bennett sitting there waiting for work. But there has been a total lack of faith in him from the coaching staff. That there is a worrying sign. At the moment you could probably buy Witten as the fourth reciever. Utilising Bennett as your blocking TE. It's still very tough to expect the Cowboys to trade away the greatest TE in franchise history. I guess it's a matter of getting the correct type of offer(2nd round pick) You definately wouldn't get a player for player trade.(Might have considered Gaither for Witten trade earlier in the year)

              Romo trade is beyond belief stupidity. There is NOTHING you could get in return that would ve a)fair market value and b) How often do teams trade for Pro Bowl Quarterbacks coming off injuries that DON'T effect there throwing arm. This is a broken bone. Not a Shoulder muscle injury like Brees.

              As for drafting QB with the first overall pick. What happens when he can't usurp Romo for five or so years? Drafted QB will be traded long before that. But what are the chances we can capitalise and nab two firsts with such a trade? Even if it's simply to trade out of the spot. You need a buyer willing to bet the farm on him.
              To each his own but it is equally stupid in my eyes to (again) fall in love with players and call them un-trade-able -- all the while seeing their trade value decrease and then being forced to cut them b/c their contracts are too big.

              As a note, Romo is 31 by start of next year, he is not a kid. Folks still talk about him like he is 24. Romo is past his prime physically and mentally he has not progressed much. Very good NFL QB but how far can he take this team before he becomes OLD? Peyton won his first at that age in spite of being vastly superior player to Tony.

              I think many folks here are vastly over rating what Romo can accomplish for this organization in the coming years. Unless he becomes a game manager with great running game and stout D -- you might have a Danny White situation. Even took the great Tom Landry took 5-6 years with some great teams to figure that out and by the time he did the talent level of those teams got very old. They did not replace anyone thinking "Next Year" and had poor drafts.

              Sound like a familiar path?
              Last edited by baghdadbob; 11-13-2010, 07:00 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by baghdadbob
                To each his own but it is equally stupid in my eyes to (again) fall in love with players and call them un-trade-able -- all the while seeing their trade value decrease and then being forced to cut them b/c their contracts are too big.
                Like I said. The Witten trade example makes a fair bit of sense. We won't get a player for him and the best bet is finding a team looking for a quality veteran reciever(and safety blanket) for a young QB. I would definately consider contacting Detroit and St Louis in the offseason. But it would be much better for them to contact us. You do not want to "shop" a beloved player like Witten. Especially when it's realistic to think we could be right back to challenging again next year.

                As a note, Romo is 31 by start of next year, he is not a kid. Folks still talk about him like he is 24. Romo is past his prime physically and mentally he has not progressed much. Very good NFL QB but how far can he take this team before he becomes OLD? Peyton won his first at that age in spite of being vastly superior player to Tony.
                He's not young. But at the same time. He hasn't got anywhere near the tread on his tires that Manning has. He could easily play for 5 or 6 years at a quality level.

                I'm a little confused by your use of the line "in spite of being vastly superior to Tony"... How would him winning be in spite of being a better QB? Maybe i am misinterpreting...

                I think many folks here are vastly over rating what Romo can accomplish for this organization in the coming years. Unless he becomes a game manager with great running game and stout D -- you might have a Danny White situation. Even took the great Tom Landry took 5-6 years with some great teams to figure that out and by the time he did the talent level of those teams got very old. They did not replace anyone thinking "Next Year" and had poor drafts.

                Sound like a familiar path?
                Danny White was a good QB. We just couldn't get it done in the 80's. Remember there was a ridiculous amount of quality in the 80's and we were playing in the toughest division on the planet at the time. I do get the possibility of the comparison between White and Romo.

                But like I said before. Where are you going to get a trade partner for a top 10 QB in the league? AND to top that off. You have to be certain Locker is going to be a Manning type QB(like once in a lifetime) to justify trading away that type of quality QB.


                It's not that there are so many things wrong with the idea of moving our most valuable assets. It's finding legitimate trade partners. Without putting out word that you want to trade off your best pieces. It's also putting faith into the organisation to absolutely NAIL every decision they make during the process. You don't want to trade away Witten and find out Phillips and Bennett can't handle that workload.(nor the responsibility). You don't want to trade Romo away and get Ryan Leaf in return.

                Also assuming there is a coaching change in the offseason. Can you imagine anyone that would want to take the job on and trade Romo for Locker?

                It's not just hard for the supporter base to digest. It would be hard to justify that to a coaching staff. It would be hard to justify that to a GM... Let alone Jerry who has had to spend 10 odd years chasing a replacement for Aikman.


                So outside a few outside the box thinkers(none of which would coach in the NFL.) It's not really a slur for the posters on NFLDC not to buy into the idea of trading away your most profitable and talented assets.

                Comment


                • Johnson & Switzer's take on Dallas

                  From Friday's LA Times sports:

                  Jimmy Johnson, Barry Switzer see some big problems in Big D
                  The former coaches, who each led the Cowboys to Super Bowl victories, say there's a lot of blame to go around for the current 1-7 team. But they differ on how much of the trouble can be pinned on Dallas owner Jerry Jones.

                  Sam Farmer
                  sam.farmer@latimes.com

                  6:22 PM PST, November 11, 2010


                  The Dallas Cowboys thought they might be the last team standing. Now, they could be the first team drafting.

                  So how does a proud franchise miss the mark in such a spectacular way, following its most promising season in a decade by losing seven of its first eight games?

                  Is it all coaching? What role does Cowboys owner Jerry Jones play? How do those players essentially the same group that won a playoff game last season allow themselves to be embarrassed the way they were in Sunday's 45-7 loss at Green Bay?

                  To find some answers, I called Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer, the only living coaches to have led the Cowboys to Super Bowl victories. (Johnson won two, matching the total of Tom Landry, and Switzer won one.)

                  While Johnson and Switzer agreed about the lack of effort and emotion with the 2010 Cowboys, they differed on how much blame Jones deserves responses reflective of their polar-opposite working relationships with the owner during their coaching days.

                  "The problem with the Cowboys is you're not real sure who the leader is and therein lies the problem," said Johnson, now a "Fox NFL Sunday" analyst. "Their players haven't answered to the head coach, and I think that's a problem."

                  Despite the coaching switch from Wade Phillips to Jason Garrett Johnson doesn't think that will change. By his thinking, Jones will always loom largest.

                  "Jerry will never change," he said. "Jerry wants to be right in the middle of it. That's why he paid all that money to buy them.

                  "Stephen is such a huge part of the process too," he added, referring to Jones' son, the club's chief operating officer. "So that's family. And when it comes to family, there's no stronger bond. Jerry's not going to change because his family's so involved."

                  Switzer said he never had an issue with Jones' involvement, said it didn't seep into the game-day decisions, and praised the owner for his financial commitment to winning.

                  "Jerry Jones does not have one thing to do with what happens on that football field, I promise you," Switzer said. "Jerry is the biggest supporter. He's willing to put up money. He competes. A lot of guys who own football teams in that league do not even compete for a Super Bowl. Jerry wants to win Super Bowls. He'll put his money up, he'll write the big checks.

                  "He never interfered with me, never did one thing. Hell, he wasn't even around. Jimmy didn't let him around; that was the problem they had."

                  Both Johnson and Switzer praised Phillips as a good coach, although neither said the Cowboys made the wrong move in firing him.

                  "The easiest scapegoat is Wade," Johnson said. "But it's hard to put it all on just one person. They've been a sloppy team the past two or three years with penalties and turnovers. They've put up a lot of yards. But they've made critical mistakes that have cost them games. That's been a disappointment.

                  "But this year, it's just been a lack of effort. Obviously the effort has something to do with not only the performance on the field, but also their preparation."

                  For Switzer, effort and emotion are interchangeable. If a team is playing without emotion, it's surely not making the effort required to win games and a lot of that is up to the coach.

                  "Everybody can get the mental and the physical down, but it's the emotional part," he said. "That's why coaches know they've got to go if that arrow is pointed down. And it was pointed down for Wade, big time. He knew he had to go."

                  Switzer said he saw the same lack of emotion in the Cowboys at the end of his tenure there, when they lost the last five games of the 1997 season and finished 6-10.

                  He and Jones would always go out to dinner the night before a game. And it was in Cincinnati, the night before the second-to-last game, when Switzer dropped a bombshell.

                  "Jerry's talking about what we've got to do next year," Switzer recalled. "I looked at him we'd already had a bottle of wine and said, 'If we don't beat them tomorrow, the first thing you'd better do is fire my [butt] and hire yourself a new football coach.' It just shocked Jerry that I said that. I was serious. The arrow was pointing down."

                  The Bengals won that game, 31-24, and it wasn't long before Switzer stepped down. He said it's painfully obvious when a team has packed it in for the season.

                  "Backs don't ricochet up into those dark holes like they did when they had a chance to get into the playoffs," he said. "When they aren't going to the playoffs, they get out of bounds sooner. They get down quicker. The receivers come across the middle and they might not stretch and lay out for a ball. They would have given it all up to make a play to get in the playoffs.

                  "I know that from watching film when I was with the Cowboys. It's no different now. There are a few players that have the pride to do it every snap. But a lot of guys protect themselves. It's human nature."

                  On that, the two coaches agree. These Cowboys are as lifeless as their record suggests.

                  "Just the way they played the last couple of weeks, they just kind of quit," Johnson said. "That was a shocker to me."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by shane_man View Post
                    Like I said. The Witten trade example makes a fair bit of sense. We won't get a player for him and the best bet is finding a team looking for a quality veteran reciever(and safety blanket) for a young QB. I would definately consider contacting Detroit and St Louis in the offseason. But it would be much better for them to contact us. You do not want to "shop" a beloved player like Witten. Especially when it's realistic to think we could be right back to challenging again next year.


                    He's not young. But at the same time. He hasn't got anywhere near the tread on his tires that Manning has. He could easily play for 5 or 6 years at a quality level.

                    I'm a little confused by your use of the line "in spite of being vastly superior to Tony"... How would him winning be in spite of being a better QB? Maybe i am misinterpreting...


                    Danny White was a good QB. We just couldn't get it done in the 80's. Remember there was a ridiculous amount of quality in the 80's and we were playing in the toughest division on the planet at the time. I do get the possibility of the comparison between White and Romo.

                    But like I said before. Where are you going to get a trade partner for a top 10 QB in the league? AND to top that off. You have to be certain Locker is going to be a Manning type QB(like once in a lifetime) to justify trading away that type of quality QB.


                    It's not that there are so many things wrong with the idea of moving our most valuable assets. It's finding legitimate trade partners. Without putting out word that you want to trade off your best pieces. It's also putting faith into the organisation to absolutely NAIL every decision they make during the process. You don't want to trade away Witten and find out Phillips and Bennett can't handle that workload.(nor the responsibility). You don't want to trade Romo away and get Ryan Leaf in return.

                    Also assuming there is a coaching change in the offseason. Can you imagine anyone that would want to take the job on and trade Romo for Locker?

                    It's not just hard for the supporter base to digest. It would be hard to justify that to a coaching staff. It would be hard to justify that to a GM... Let alone Jerry who has had to spend 10 odd years chasing a replacement for Aikman.


                    So outside a few outside the box thinkers(none of which would coach in the NFL.) It's not really a slur for the posters on NFLDC not to buy into the idea of trading away your most profitable and talented assets.
                    1) I agree it is really tough.
                    2) Luck not Locker. Locker, to me, is Jake Cutler II. Luck is as sure a thing as you can have at the top of the draft.
                    3) If we get #1, we have currency that trading out of would yield poor results IMHO but you never know. Maybe their is a GMen II situation like with Rivers.
                    4) Jones tried to find a replacement for Aikman on the cheap and failed. Plus he never had high enough choices really to draft the type of talent he wanted. Also his salary cap situation was tough and in fact had to trade down in a few drafts b/c of it.
                    5) Danny White, like Tony, are was very very good but not good enough to overcome the superior play/talent of other teams. Tony, to me, is very similar. Very good but not great and in games where maybe the other team is playing a little better, he can't will the win. Not a knock on Tony -- just the truth IMHO.
                    6) Peyton is superior to Tony and it took him some time to get there with better teams. That is what I meant.

                    It is a tough off season for us and Jerry will need to make some tough personnel choices to get this right.

                    We are very week between the hashes and it will take 3-4 drafts to get it right unless we use our edge players as currency to speed that process up.

                    Unless, of course, someone thinks we have the "between-the-hash-marks" personnel already on the team and simply need to remove the old-vet progress stoppers. Maybe.......... dunno, I know Pittsburgh plays its 3-4 with it OLB playing ILB on certain plays and mixing things up. Mabye some of our OLB talent can move inside and that certainly solves some things quickly.

                    I dunno. I just think this off season is tough b/c is this a "coaching" fluke or an endemic problem with flawed talent in some spots and too much in others.

                    Comment


                    • Your wrong, bro. I don't need to elaborate.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CDCB14 View Post
                        Your wrong, bro. I don't need to elaborate.
                        Could be. But I think I have pretty good judgment. So, let the chips fall where they may.

                        Comment


                        • Romo isn't going anywhere. While Jerry may admit he has been wrong in other areas, he isn't gonna give up on him. And he isn't the problem. The Andrew Luck talk is nonsense. End of story.

                          Comment


                          • Just wondering why so many of you think that you'd have to trade Romo this year if drafted Luck? Why not hold onto Romo for a year or two to cover For Luck while you plug some holes and then trade Romo after he's gotten a chance to re-establish his trade value with a healthy year and Luck has gotten to show the coaching staff how good he could be.
                            Last edited by Rosebud; 11-13-2010, 12:19 PM.

                            BK

                            Originally posted by AcheTen
                            JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
                            Originally posted by abaddon41_80
                            Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
                            Originally posted by JBCX
                            Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

                            Comment


                            • I just realized that Scandrick is still only 23... I don't think you can give up on him yet.

                              Comment


                              • Obviously he's young still...he just sucks.

                                Thanks BoneKrusher^

                                http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                                http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                                KO KNOWS

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