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  • Originally posted by FreshBoy! View Post
    You realize the Colts & Pats are consistently picking in the bottom 10 every single year right? I don't understand why you're taking this we need to pick top 7 stance?
    That's why I'm not too worried about where they pick. Yeah, picking high gives you a better choice of who you want, but it doesn't matter if you have a front office that doesn't draft well. Detroit and Oakland always get blue chip prospects, yet they never have the same success as perennial top 20 pickers like the Colts, Steelers, and Titans. The Cowboys have shown the ability to find steals in later rounds, so I have confidence that they can get a good player anywhere. I'm really more worried about them getting too cute like in 2009. They don't need to get too flashy or pick greedy. They just need to focus on finding players with a premium on intelligence and heart to turn the team around.
    "If you have one finger pointing at somebody, you have three pointing towards yourself."
    ~Nigerian Proverb

    Da riddum is too much for you.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKx27QrgO0

    Comment


    • Only a fool would trade Witten. The chemistry he has between Romo is invaluable. It makes up for a lot of normal weaknesses. ie. If Martellus Bennett had lost a step, he'd be useless to this team. Same doesn't go for Witten because of his years and years of building a relationship with Romo. The Patriots wouldn't do that. You don't see them trading Wes Welker do you?

      The assumptions are lovely... but wildly inaccurate.

      Comment


      • Jesus christ, throw out the Witten example..it was just that...an example. Let's say Barber a year or 2 ago, or Newman BEFORE he became a liability....You're avoiding the point I'm making in that winning franchises have Front offices that make tough decisions that consistently churn the roster and add new talent...despite drafting late in each round. The Pats trading Richard Seymour is a perfect example of this...at 29 he obviously had some years left in him, and was playing at a pro-bowl level.

        Respond to that....or ignore it like you've been doing...either way...The Witten example wasn't the main point.
        Last edited by FreshBoy!; 12-20-2010, 11:32 PM.

        Comment


        • Also the Steelers didn't trade Heinz Ward 4 years ago, the Ravens didn't trade Ray Lewis 5 years ago, the Colts didn't trade Reggie Wayne because they have a bunch of other WR's producing, etc etc.



          While you can say good teams let great players go it's true, but there are some guys you don't just go "Madden" with and trade for mid round picks. There are times when trading a guy isn't even an option, Witten is one of those guys and he's gonna retire a Cowboy.


          It's not even a chance for him to be traded, but every so often someone always throws him into an off-season plan where we get some mid round picks lol. I'm not gonna lie when I start my madden franchise the first thing I do is trade Witten for Jermichael Finley and a 3rd round pick, but that's the only place he's gonna be getting traded so were just wasting our time talking about how it would help us out.





          Originally posted by Scott Wright
          I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

          Comment


          • and on Barber I wish we could have traded him as soon as we saw what we had in Choice. Which should of been before the 2009 season, and he gave us alot in terms of heart and intangibles but he's not on the untouchable level of Witten where a good pick would of been worth it for Barber even awhile ago.


            At this point we missed the boat, nobody wants him now, and I think he's another guy who gets cut. We can't worry about hurting feelings on the team when we lost 10 games.





            Originally posted by Scott Wright
            I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by FreshBoy! View Post
              Jesus christ, throw out the Witten example..it was just that...an example. Let's say Barber a year or 2 ago, or Newman BEFORE he became a liability....You're avoiding the point I'm making in that winning franchises have Front offices that make tough decisions that consistently churn the roster and add new talent...despite drafting late in each round. The Pats trading Richard Seymour is a perfect example of this...at 29 he obviously had some years left in him, and was playing at a pro-bowl level.

              Respond to that....or ignore it like you've been doing...either way...The Witten example wasn't the main point.
              You can't compare Seymour with Witten in what they mean to their team. It's a lot easier to find a replacement 5-tech than it is to find a replacement go-to guy for your QB, especially with the chemistry of Romo to Witten.

              And winning franchises do not trade away franchise guys, I don't know what evidence you have to back that statement up. I think you'd be hard pressed to find even 3 examples of winning teams who traded away a blue chip guy in his prime for draft picks.
              Cowboys Mock:
              1. Myles Jack | LB | UCLA
              2. Vernon Butler | DT | LA Tech
              3. Karl Joseph | SS | WVU

              Comment


              • Here's something to look for on Saturday:

                Arizona's offense line has allowed the 2nd most sacks in the NFL only behind Chicago with 43 this season. Ware is 2.5 sacks behind NFL sack leader Cameron Wake going into week 16.
                Cowboys Mock:
                1. Myles Jack | LB | UCLA
                2. Vernon Butler | DT | LA Tech
                3. Karl Joseph | SS | WVU

                Comment


                • I admit I would trade Witten. If a team were to give me a 2nd and 3rd I would do it. Witten is great but he will be in a contract year next year and if we re-sign him it will be based on his current and previous play and not how well he will play out the rest of his contract. He's declined as a blocker has already taken a ton of hits and was not the most athletic guy to begin with. As he grows with age I expect him to threaten the seam less and less. I just dont see tight end being an issue when we have marty b who will break out if ever given extensive playing time and john phillips. IMO tight ends are easily replaceable. A team like New England would get rid of him in a heart beat. I could care less if he's Romo's best friend if our passing offense collaspses because we dont have Witten maybe Romo, Dez, and Miles arent as good as we thought. With those picks you could rebuild the worst defense in Cowboys history and the offense wouldnt miss a beat.

                  Comment


                  • Jason Witten will probably be a Hall of Fame player. He'll probably pass Michael Irvin in terms of catches in 2-3 years, he's a great receiver and blocker, and he's considered the best tight end in the game right now. You don't trade players like that for draft picks. Draft picks are potential while great players are the pieces that you need to build a successful team. You don't trade a player that is everything you need for draft picks. That is not only backwards thinking in terms of team progression, but it sends a bad message to current and future players. Dallas wouldn't be a hot place for free agency all of a sudden if they decided to get rid of a great player in his prime.

                    The goal of getting new players is to upgrade on what you have or to replace something that is missing. You would be hard pressed to upgrade Witten, and getting rid of him creates a problem of losing the most reliable offensive weapon you have had in years. It's also not like you have only 3 or 4 picks in the upcoming draft. They have 7 picks in the upcoming draft, and that's enough to get new players on the team. Losing Witten loses the matchup problems he causes for opposing defenses, an easy target for Romo when under pressure, and it puts more heat on Miles and Dez in the passing game.
                    "If you have one finger pointing at somebody, you have three pointing towards yourself."
                    ~Nigerian Proverb

                    Da riddum is too much for you.
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKx27QrgO0

                    Comment


                    • Trading Witten is absolute blasphemy. The dude is 28 and is already a HOFer. He can't be replaced. People who would trade him for a 2nd and a 3rd are absolutely ********. He can't be replaced.

                      Like they say, you don't realize what you have till its gone. Witten may run a freakin 5.3 forty right now, but the guy is a baller. He is invaluable. Stop with the blasphemy. If he was 32 then MAYBE i couldt listen to the talk, but the dude is 28, and to top that off speed was never his game anyway. the dude still has 5+ pro-bowl years left. You could easily bust on those 2nd and 3rd round players or they could be back-ups and you got NOTHING in return... FOR A HALL OF FAME TIGHT END.

                      AKA... GET THE **** OUT.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by E-Man View Post
                        Jason Witten will probably be a Hall of Fame player. He'll probably pass Michael Irvin in terms of catches in 2-3 years, he's a great receiver and blocker, and he's considered the best tight end in the game right now. You don't trade players like that for draft picks. Draft picks are potential while great players are the pieces that you need to build a successful team. You don't trade a player that is everything you need for draft picks. That is not only backwards thinking in terms of team progression, but it sends a bad message to current and future players. Dallas wouldn't be a hot place for free agency all of a sudden if they decided to get rid of a great player in his prime.

                        The goal of getting new players is to upgrade on what you have or to replace something that is missing. You would be hard pressed to upgrade Witten, and getting rid of him creates a problem of losing the most reliable offensive weapon you have had in years. It's also not like you have only 3 or 4 picks in the upcoming draft. They have 7 picks in the upcoming draft, and that's enough to get new players on the team. Losing Witten loses the matchup problems he causes for opposing defenses, an easy target for Romo when under pressure, and it puts more heat on Miles and Dez in the passing game.
                        I wouldnt trade him if I believed we could contend for a super bowl right now but I think there are too many holes on this team to win right now and I think sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward. Witten is a great player but again he's going to be paid on his past performance and not how he's expected to play in the future. He will be 29 next year and will be receiving top dollar. I love him as a player and everything he symbolizes but when it comes to free agency you have to be ruthless and I wouldnt resign Witten because of age and expected diminishing returns therefore I'd trade him a year in advance and collect picks for the future. Tight ends are easy to replace look at how many rookies have been successful Gresham, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Moeki, and etc. If Marty B were to ever play extensively he would break out.

                        Comment


                        • If Marty B were to ever play extensively he would break out.
                          That's called an opinion. Trading Romo's security blanket that also happens to be the best combined TE in the game for draft picks especially ones that aren't in the 1st is a poor investment. And NONE of the names you mentioned are anywhere near the top 10 in combined TEs. If you take a narrow statistical approach in terms of catches / TDs that might be the conclusion however you CANNOT replace his overall ability with a 2nd or 3rd pick. Considering he is the top combined TE ... no one can replace him especially a rookie.

                          By that same token Romo is getting old and we shouldn't resign him and should off load him for some mid-rounders. Quarterbacks are easy to replace look at how many rookies have been successful Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, and etc. If McGee were to ever play extensively he would break out.

                          Hyperbole is dangerous. Witten is MUCH more valuable to the team than any 2nd or 3rd rounder.
                          Originally posted by D-Unit
                          I have no clue what Bortles is all about. Has a funny name though. Sounds like a Pokemon.


                          Dallas Cowboys GM -Forum Mock

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Trogdor View Post
                            That's called an opinion. Trading Romo's security blanket that also happens to be the best combined TE in the game for draft picks especially ones that aren't in the 1st is a poor investment. And NONE of the names you mentioned are anywhere near the top 10 in combined TEs. If you take a narrow statistical approach in terms of catches / TDs that might be the conclusion however you CANNOT replace his overall ability with a 2nd or 3rd pick. Considering he is the top combined TE ... no one can replace him especially a rookie.

                            By that same token Romo is getting old and we shouldn't resign him and should off load him for some mid-rounders. Quarterbacks are easy to replace look at how many rookies have been successful Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, and etc. If McGee were to ever play extensively he would break out.

                            Hyperbole is dangerous. Witten is MUCH more valuable to the team than any 2nd or 3rd rounder.
                            Silly conclusion because you have to understand premium of the position. Witten is an overrated blocker now. Marty B is clearly the best blocker on this team and he's more than athletic enough to threaten the seam. Witten is a great player but his position isnt of the most importance and we will be receiving diminishing returns for his next contract. Romo would obviously garner more than middle round picks and plays a position of the upmost importance on offense. McGee hasnt shown the ability that Martellus has in actual playing time. Nice try with the comparison but not even close. We have plenty of pass catching options IMO. Miles is more important to the offense than Witten because his ability to threaten and keep the safeties back allows for Witten to threaten underneath and i'm sure Marty B can fill the role not up to the ability of Witten but a solid player nonethless and being a better blocker. We're going to have 2 #1 WR's in Miles and Dez I dont think pass catching options is anything to be worried about. Again opinions vary but I think we have ALOT of holes and we're going to have to fill them some how. The defense is atrocious. You cannot blame scheme we've played 2 gap 1 gap zone coverage and man coverage and all have failed. We need a serious overhaul on defense.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by romo4prez415 View Post
                              Silly conclusion because you have to understand premium of the position. Witten is an overrated blocker now. Marty B is clearly the best blocker on this team and he's more than athletic enough to threaten the seam. Witten is a great player but his position isnt of the most importance and we will be receiving diminishing returns for his next contract. Romo would obviously garner more than middle round picks and plays a position of the upmost importance on offense. McGee hasnt shown the ability that Martellus has in actual playing time. Nice try with the comparison but not even close. We have plenty of pass catching options IMO. Miles is more important to the offense than Witten because his ability to threaten and keep the safeties back allows for Witten to threaten underneath and i'm sure Marty B can fill the role not up to the ability of Witten but a solid player nonethless and being a better blocker. We're going to have 2 #1 WR's in Miles and Dez I dont think pass catching options is anything to be worried about. Again opinions vary but I think we have ALOT of holes and we're going to have to fill them some how. The defense is atrocious. You cannot blame scheme we've played 2 gap 1 gap zone coverage and man coverage and all have failed. We need a serious overhaul on defense.
                              But Bennett hasn't shown much with the opportunities, his route running and overall football IQ is not what you would expect from a 3rd year guy. I'm confused on what makes you think he could step in for the role that Witten plays for our offense right now. Make no mistake about it, the Tight End in our offense is the go to guy. Romo and Witten have been playing so long together, they have a rare chemisty that takes years and years for players to develop. Romo knows exactly what Witten is going to do on any given play and vice-versa. That type of chemistry is invaluable.

                              Witten is only 28, he has probably another 5 years of playing at a high level. I'm not sure why you think we'd be getting diminishing returns on him for his next contract.
                              Last edited by TheFinisher; 12-22-2010, 06:43 PM.
                              Cowboys Mock:
                              1. Myles Jack | LB | UCLA
                              2. Vernon Butler | DT | LA Tech
                              3. Karl Joseph | SS | WVU

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by romo4prez415 View Post
                                Silly conclusion because you have to understand premium of the position. Witten is an overrated blocker now. Marty B is clearly the best blocker on this team and he's more than athletic enough to threaten the seam. Witten is a great player but his position isnt of the most importance and we will be receiving diminishing returns for his next contract. Romo would obviously garner more than middle round picks and plays a position of the upmost importance on offense. McGee hasnt shown the ability that Martellus has in actual playing time. Nice try with the comparison but not even close. We have plenty of pass catching options IMO. Miles is more important to the offense than Witten because his ability to threaten and keep the safeties back allows for Witten to threaten underneath and i'm sure Marty B can fill the role not up to the ability of Witten but a solid player nonethless and being a better blocker. We're going to have 2 #1 WR's in Miles and Dez I dont think pass catching options is anything to be worried about. Again opinions vary but I think we have ALOT of holes and we're going to have to fill them some how. The defense is atrocious. You cannot blame scheme we've played 2 gap 1 gap zone coverage and man coverage and all have failed. We need a serious overhaul on defense.
                                If there is not such a premium on the tight end position, then Witten won't be getting a huge contract that cripples the team's salary cap. When is the last time a team has given a tight end a big contract anyway? In the past it seems like teams would rather ship them because they think they're slowing down,a la Tony Gonzalez and Shannon Sharpe. In both of those cases the "old" tight ends had a lot left, and it would have benefited the team to keep them. Imagine Gonzalez with the Chiefs now. They'd be much better than what they are.

                                As for the team having holes, it's not like this is the Buffalo Bills we're talking about. There are holes, but not so much that you have to trade Pro Bowl players just to have a competitive team. The O-line can be fixed in FA, and the same can be said defensively. The draft will take care of areas that are lacking good FA help, but there's no need to acquire two unknown picks for the most reliable player on the team. Like I mentioned before, the reason why you get new players is either to replace someone or upgrade. No sense in doing that with a tight end that's the best at his position. Those two picks aren't guaranteed, but Witten is more than likely to have yet another slew of Pro Bowls in the next 3-5 years barring injury.
                                "If you have one finger pointing at somebody, you have three pointing towards yourself."
                                ~Nigerian Proverb

                                Da riddum is too much for you.
                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKx27QrgO0

                                Comment

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