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  • Should be worried about kicker, but I like Bailey. I dont have a problem with him at all...but it's probably more likely that they go with Rayner.

    As for O-Line...it depends on your expectations for the season. If you expect us to be playoff or division contender...then you should be worried. Because the actually chances that we found a good o-line by this means are not good for the upcoming season. Going into a season with two rookies (one of which was a late 7th rounder) and a second year, former undrafted, green Center. This should worry any fan, of any team. If there is really no worry or doubt then, you have to be a little delusional. It takes years to find the right mix of players along the line...and to think that we're going to have that right mix with rookies and Costa from day one? The percentages themselves are incredibly low. This would be an exteremly rare occurence. And Graziano (sp.)...saying the line couldnt be much worse as a whole? Based off of what? Rookie inexperience could be just as bad, or even worse than the play of declining veterans. We have no idea how Nagy and Costa will fair against starters over the course of a full game. Nagy's upper body strength may not even be of starting NFL quality yet. We're going to find out...and I hope they surprise. But fans should lower their expectations if they expect this line to be an instant upgrade or even be enough to help get us to the playoffs. There's always a chance...but league wide history, would tilt the scales greatly to the side of us struggling, more so than succeeding.

    Dallas was a sleeper team for this season...but the moves along the line, could eliminate any real chance of that. Just being a realist, because success with a line built this way, would be very uncommon.

    Thanks BoneKrusher^

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
    KO KNOWS

    Comment


    • Originally posted by yanksknicks View Post
      Difference between 6-10 and 10-6 in the NFL is little to nothing. So, yeah we could be 10-6 and going to a Wild Card.

      With that said, I do believe that Player Personnel and Development has been a big problem. Since 2007, Jones thought he was 1-2 players away. Which he was not. Young bodies were sacrificed for short term gain at the expense of long term improvement.

      Miles Austin taking 3.5 years to see the field. Doug Free taking 3 years. Giving up on Carpenter after one year. Giving up on Burnett. Giving up on Elam very early. Giving up on Peterman (Lions). Giving up on Lousaka Polite. Going Felix and forgoing Mendenhall. Roy Williams trade. Giving up on Fasano for Bennett. Some of the draft picks like Brewster, the 2 fourth round QBs Stanback and the current back-up. Trade up for Spencer. ....... so, quite a few decisions made ******** development in favor of bigger names or swapping one complimentary player for another and losing value in the process.

      I am not arguing all these guy are stars or that what we gave up was any great shakes but those moves have been a burden and cost the team a bit.
      Hindsight is 20-20 man. And Dallas hasnt missed the majority of the players you listed. Teams strike gold on other team's garbage all the time. Just look around the league, it happens with every team. Every team has bad draft picks as well...it happens. No one said this stuff was easy.

      And Doug Free had to go through years of strength training before the coaches even gained confidence in the guy. He took his beatings early in his career. It happens a lot with young lineman, their strength is just not where it needs to be. Add to the fact that Flo and Colombo were actually doing a good job of protecting Tony for a while in there.
      Last edited by M.O.T.H.; 08-30-2011, 06:08 PM.

      Thanks BoneKrusher^

      http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
      KO KNOWS

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Macarthur View Post
        Frankly, I'm more worried about the kicker than I am the OL.
        Meh enough solid/potential left on our roster to field a reliable kicker. Between Buehler and our new signing Rayner I'm not too worried. Really can't buy that we'll go with Bailey since he's been are terrible as Buehler and he doesn't have an absolute cannon like the other two potential candidates. I loved that we stashed Kai for 6 weeks though. Getting one of the most highly touted kickers in the draft for a non-roster spot is worth it I imagine :)

        Loving the idea of Free-Nagy-Costa-Kosier-Smith. Athletic pass blockers instead of the road grating cement feet of old. Have to imagine we'll be scouring the waiver wire for a potential LG but it has to be encouraging our UDFAs are playing well (Kowalski held his own with the 1st team).
        Originally posted by D-Unit
        I have no clue what Bortles is all about. Has a funny name though. Sounds like a Pokemon.


        Dallas Cowboys GM -Forum Mock

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        • It will be interesting to see if Mike Jenkins will play against all the scrubs in our last game. I hope so...It's really scary that both of our starting corners are banged up. lol. Awful. Hopefully Miles sees no ill effects from that hamsting either. Cliche, but true...they linger.

          Thanks BoneKrusher^

          http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
          http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
          KO KNOWS

          Comment


          • I think it's a no brainer Dan Bailey should win the job. He's got upside to get alot better, Buehler never was or will be an accurate, consistent kicker. He was perfect for what he initially was, which was touchbacks and 45+ FG's. Ironically that was the big knock on Bailey is that he was very inconsistent with the longer kicks, but inside of 40 he was money in the bank.


            He made some pretty big kicks too during his time there also, if he takes the job I think he'll end up being alot more consistent which is what we need. With Buehler, I think every single one of us watches a game and knows there is a 50/50 chance of it missing. 20 yards or 50 yards away, extra points, doesn't matter. He's just not a natural at it, and it'll never change.


            Bailey is better at everything kicking except leg strength, I'll trade that in for some higher percentages inside of 40.


            To my knowledge, we let alot of solid kickers exchange hands relying on Buehler. Neil Rackers anyone? Yea, let's pass on him to wait and see what we have in Buehler.





            Originally posted by Scott Wright
            I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
              Hindsight is 20-20 man. And Dallas hasnt missed the majority of the players you listed. Teams strike gold on other team's garbage all the time. Just look around the league, it happens with every team. Every team has bad draft picks as well...it happens. No one said this stuff was easy.

              And Doug Free had to go through years of strength training before the coaches even gained confidence in the guy. He took his beatings early in his career. It happens a lot with young lineman, their strength is just not where it needs to be. Add to the fact that Flo and Colombo were actually doing a good job of protecting Tony for a while in there.
              Well, I am one who thinks we tend to "start them" one year too late instead of "one year" too early.

              To me, if by mid second year the coaching staff does not plan on them playing lots in year 3 .... move on ... they will never be, but you gotta have a belief in them and put them on the field year 3 at latest.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post

                As for O-Line...it depends on your expectations for the season. If you expect us to be playoff or division contender...then you should be worried. Because the actually chances that we found a good o-line by this means are not good for the upcoming season. Going into a season with two rookies (one of which was a late 7th rounder) and a second year, former undrafted, green Center. This should worry any fan, of any team. If there is really no worry or doubt then, you have to be a little delusional. It takes years to find the right mix of players along the line...and to think that we're going to have that right mix with rookies and Costa from day one? The percentages themselves are incredibly low. This would be an exteremly rare occurence. And Graziano (sp.)...saying the line couldnt be much worse as a whole? Based off of what? Rookie inexperience could be just as bad, or even worse than the play of declining veterans. We have no idea how Nagy and Costa will fair against starters over the course of a full game. Nagy's upper body strength may not even be of starting NFL quality yet. We're going to find out...and I hope they surprise. But fans should lower their expectations if they expect this line to be an instant upgrade or even be enough to help get us to the playoffs. There's always a chance...but league wide history, would tilt the scales greatly to the side of us struggling, more so than succeeding.

                I'm just curious, what motivation would Jason Garret have to cut offensive lineman who were clearly better? What FA's are we saving cap money for? Who was in the doghouse that resulted in them not playing?


                Your talking about fans are delusional if they are not worried, so you mean Jason Garret is worried? Because it's actually his ass that's on the line, so if he's not worried why am I delusional if I'm not? I get that it's a risk, I get that your worried, but why does 1 side always have to be a homer, or delusional, or crazy, or whatever else it ends up?


                I know you didn't mean it literal or anything, but while teams(especially ours) make bad moves quite a bit, I think it's ridiculous to assume these guys are cutting players who are clearly better. What agenda does that fit? So we want to be younger and cheaper, so we cut better players to meet the quota?


                They see these guys in practice, they know Romo upright and running the ball is important to making everything work that Jason Garret plans to do, but I'm supposed to assume he's cutting offensive lineman that are clearly better, in favor of younger guys just for the hell of it.


                There is not going to be a big drop off in offensive line play, just because it's unknown doesn't make it automatically suck. Nor does it make you crazy if you feel the same. Moves like these happen for 1 reason only, they aren't clearly better then the option who is moving into the starting line-up.





                Originally posted by Scott Wright
                I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
                  I'm just curious, what motivation would Jason Garret have to cut offensive lineman who were clearly better? What FA's are we saving cap money for? Who was in the doghouse that resulted in them not playing?


                  Your talking about fans are delusional if they are not worried, so you mean Jason Garret is worried? Because it's actually his ass that's on the line, so if he's not worried why am I delusional if I'm not? I get that it's a risk, I get that your worried, but why does 1 side always have to be a homer, or delusional, or crazy, or whatever else it ends up?


                  I know you didn't mean it literal or anything, but while teams(especially ours) make bad moves quite a bit, I think it's ridiculous to assume these guys are cutting players who are clearly better. What agenda does that fit? So we want to be younger and cheaper, so we cut better players to meet the quota?


                  They see these guys in practice, they know Romo upright and running the ball is important to making everything work that Jason Garret plans to do, but I'm supposed to assume he's cutting offensive lineman that are clearly better, in favor of younger guys just for the hell of it.


                  There is not going to be a big drop off in offensive line play, just because it's unknown doesn't make it automatically suck. Nor does it make you crazy if you feel the same. Moves like these happen for 1 reason only, they aren't clearly better then the option who is moving into the starting line-up.
                  That's where I have a disagreement. I don't think Garrett is one bit worried about his ass being on the line. It may be on the line in 3-4 years, but definitely not now. That's why he can make these moves and not panic for his ass to be canned.

                  Moth and I are in agreement that expectations for this year have taken a hit, but it's not to say we don't hope for the best. Or that the team isn't hoping for the best either. Just the odds are against us with this young line.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
                    I'm just curious, what motivation would Jason Garret have to cut offensive lineman who were clearly better? What FA's are we saving cap money for? Who was in the doghouse that resulted in them not playing?


                    Your talking about fans are delusional if they are not worried, so you mean Jason Garret is worried? Because it's actually his ass that's on the line, so if he's not worried why am I delusional if I'm not? I get that it's a risk, I get that your worried, but why does 1 side always have to be a homer, or delusional, or crazy, or whatever else it ends up?


                    I know you didn't mean it literal or anything, but while teams(especially ours) make bad moves quite a bit, I think it's ridiculous to assume these guys are cutting players who are clearly better. What agenda does that fit? So we want to be younger and cheaper, so we cut better players to meet the quota?


                    They see these guys in practice, they know Romo upright and running the ball is important to making everything work that Jason Garret plans to do, but I'm supposed to assume he's cutting offensive lineman that are clearly better, in favor of younger guys just for the hell of it.


                    There is not going to be a big drop off in offensive line play, just because it's unknown doesn't make it automatically suck. Nor does it make you crazy if you feel the same. Moves like these happen for 1 reason only, they aren't clearly better then the option who is moving into the starting line-up.
                    Really? Garrett's position is incredibly safe. He's going to get ample time, they wouldnt be taking risks like this, if Jerry wasnt invested in the guy for the long term. As for cuts...I dont really understand where you're going with that. Colombo and Davis both sucked, I wanted them gone. Gurode is still a good player. They already committed to revamping the line with two rookies and they like Costa, so they strong armed Gurode into leaving. Fully committing to a complete overhaul of the line, with younger players. Does that mean they're even the best players? No it doesnt. If they like Costa, that's fine...but the whole point is, that you're teaming him up with two rookies, which makes the majority of your line incredibly green. We have the line you'd expect to see from a team in complete rebuild mode.

                    This is crazy to me...look at the history of the league, as I've stated a bunch of times. Two rookies and second year center with one start. Are you kidding me? lol. If you cant see why having these three starting at the same time is worrisome....then I cant help you at all.

                    Percentages, percentages, percentages. I'm sorry, but any fan that isnt worried about three inexperienced guys on the line. Should really take a look around the league. I hope it works out, I really do. But you have to realize, that a complete overhaul of a line, with additions of rooks and inexperienced players...doesnt bode well in most cases.

                    I was behind starting two rookies or Smith and Costa...but the fact that now 3/5 of our line are essentially rookies, should spell trouble, based on years of league trends. It's actually common sense. It would be better if we had another veteran in there at either G or C.

                    I wouldnt be making as big of a deal, if I didnt think we had the talent to contend at other positions. Offensive skill players say playoffs, offensive line...screams rebuilding, as in not contending. You dont make moves like this, if you really have post season aspirations for this season. Because it would make absolutely no sense at all.
                    Last edited by M.O.T.H.; 08-30-2011, 08:42 PM.

                    Thanks BoneKrusher^

                    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                    KO KNOWS

                    Comment


                    • I understand Gurode refused to restructure, but if he goes to another team and they play him at Guard, I think he could beast it up. I would've been interested in seeing that move here.

                      Comment


                      • I get that Garrett's job is safe, he's not gonna get fired. But I'm not buying that he's purposely trying to ruin his chances at putting a good product out on the field, especially on the offensive side of the ball. These guys are rookies and/or unproven yes, but I missed the part about where that means we will suck.


                        I hardly think the line is gonna be worse then last year, the same one that was getting Romo drilled until he was out for the season. So yea, guess I'm delusional and crazy and everything under the sun for not panicking about the offensive line.


                        I'm sure Garrett specifically wants a worse offensive line out on the field this year if he has anything to do with it. Because that obviously makes the most sense.





                        Originally posted by Scott Wright
                        I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

                        Comment


                        • Gurode was due $5.5 million and they already committed to two younger lineman...having two rookies starting, is worrisome in itself, so why not go the extra yard, since they were going younger anyway? Complete the youth movement now, instead of later. I can say without a shread of doubt, that I believe Gurode is a better player than both Nagy and Costa, no question.

                          When I bring up "delusion", I mean it toward fans that expect success with the line we've invested in, right now. To not have a worry at all, makes no sense, if you really think we can contend. Seriously...because this type of line, made up of, pretty much three rookies sees success in the NFL all the time. :/

                          And I love Nagy...but there is always a chance, he's just the best we got...same with Costa. It's not like the level of competition was amazing. Not like they beat out great, established players to get their jobs. The LG competition consisted of Nagy and Arkin and Gurode never had the opporunity to challenge for his job.

                          I hate making posts like that...because I do like the young guys...but there is a chance, that it's true. The bottom line, is that you just dont see teams having great success when they have to play three inexperienced lineman along the line. You're banking on hitting on three young players, and it doesnt normally work out that way at all. For as good as they've looked...grouping them all together, one should expect some big struggles.

                          These are rebuilding type moves...not contending moves.

                          Thanks BoneKrusher^

                          http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                          http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                          KO KNOWS

                          Comment


                          • If they're good....I'm going being extremely happy, obviously. You may have potentially found 4 long term starters. But the sheer odds of that happening are just not in our favor.

                            As I said, though...given the talent we've invested in our offensive skill position players. This type of move is incredibly inconsistent and risky in regards to them.

                            Intent to contend + three "rookie" starters on the O-Line

                            Just doesnt add up.
                            Last edited by M.O.T.H.; 08-30-2011, 09:39 PM.

                            Thanks BoneKrusher^

                            http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                            http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                            KO KNOWS

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
                              I get that Garrett's job is safe, he's not gonna get fired. But I'm not buying that he's purposely trying to ruin his chances at putting a good product out on the field, especially on the offensive side of the ball. These guys are rookies and/or unproven yes, but I missed the part about where that means we will suck.


                              I hardly think the line is gonna be worse then last year, the same one that was getting Romo drilled until he was out for the season. So yea, guess I'm delusional and crazy and everything under the sun for not panicking about the offensive line.


                              I'm sure Garrett specifically wants a worse offensive line out on the field this year if he has anything to do with it. Because that obviously makes the most sense.
                              Sigh. Again for the umteenth millionth time... it's not the cuts that is the problem I see. It's the replacement plan. I would've been more at ease with cutting Gurode had we drafted Stephen Wisneiwski over Bruce Carter or signed Olin Kruetz or some other FA. Or how about both? Daryn Colledge would've been a nice pick up. Cutting Gurode opened up $5/year... isn't that less than what Justin Blalock and Harvey Dahl and Davin Joseph signed for? Correct me if I'm wrong.

                              You guys are loving the change. I get that. I wanted change too. But not this way. You guys may like it this way, but it's a gigantic risk. You say that you missed the part where they suck because they are rookies... Well, let's be clear here... we're not the Eagles who spent their 1st rounder on a Guard. No, we're talking about a 7th rounder who didn't start in college and an UDFA with 4 games under his belt. I'm sorry that I'm not as sold as you are.

                              I'm not saying Garrett isn't concerned about putting the best 5 players we have out on the field. I'm saying our best 5 players are freaking scary inexperienced and I'm asking WHY WASN'T THERE A BETTER PLAN??? For a team that was so highly invested on an offensive heavy draft and purposeful in their early cuts (Roy, Hurd, Barber, Davis, Colombo) ...and now Gurode... DID THEY REALLY PLAN TO GO INTO THE SEASON THIS WAY? Damn them for not being more aggressive in FA for a Guard and/or Center.

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                              • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                ..... I'm asking WHY WASN'T THERE A BETTER PLAN???
                                The GM stinks.

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