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  • Originally posted by Staubach12
    Originally posted by Paul
    Have ya'll seen this kid?

    http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...cobyjones.html

    6-4 210lbs, 4.40's 40-time. Has hidden gem written all over him. I say we give him a look in the 5th, he might be reach even there, but word on the boards say he runs hard after the catch and makes big plays.
    Originally posted by Staubach12
    1.DeMarcus Tyler, NT, NC State
    2.Anthony Gonzalez, WR, Ohio St
    3.Mason Crosby, K, Colorado
    4.Jonathan Wade, CB, Tennessee
    5.Isaiah Stanback, QB, Washington
    7.Jacob Ford, DE/OLB, Central Arkansas
    7.Uche Nwaneri, OG, Purdue
    7.Jacoby Jones, WR, Lane
    Staubach's Jacob Ford and Jacoby Jones picks are lights out from a physical talent perspective.

    But Staubach is right in many ways -- use the later parts of the draft for top end combine guys who went to smaller schools and had spoty performance.

    Not everyone ends up at FSU on national TV with a great position coach to teach them.

    Comment


    • As an anaytical fan these are the things that bother me. Scott Wright has us drafting Reggie Nelson (great talent and great first pick if it gets to us) but look at the flawed reasoning:

      "After yet another long season of seeing Williams get burnt in coverage something tells me that is going to change sooner rather than later though. It's really not Williams' fault as he's more suited to be an in-the-box type and by expecting him to cover wideouts deep you are simply asking for trouble."

      Why do I call this flawed reasoning on Scott's part?

      1) Roy never ever ever covers WR unless they are being released to him in a 2 Deep Zone. To say the D Coorindator and BP are exposing (as inplied) Roy to 1-1 with Randy Moss is incorrect.

      2) Roy is a SS he should be able to stick with a WR when he has a 20 yard cushion on a post or bomb. Maybe not as well as a FS but still...

      3) Roy's biggest problem in coverage are not WR -- they are called TEs. 6 TDs this year to TE. 1 to WR where Roy had the double with Watkins.

      4) The Cowboys run a 3-4 -- the use of a SS "in-the-box" is an occasional strategy. Even more occasional than the typical 4-3 scheme

      5) You can not have Roy in-the-box 100% of the time in any scheme. Talk about predictable.

      On another level this gets to my central point on Roy. There are too many individuals telling Roy this very same thing. Too many people repeating this into Jerry's ears. They are called enablers who are masking a real problem.

      Until there is a consensus opinion that Roy is hurting this team with his play (and not because he is "not in the box" or the coaches are not schmeing himright) our Defense will not be able to cover a TE and will continue to give up huge plays to WR.

      SS need to cover in the NFL, all 32 plus 32 back-ups. Designing any scheme to mask this flaw is irrational.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by cowboysforever
        As an anaytical fan these are the things that bother me. Scott Wright has us drafting Reggie Nelson (great talent and great first pick if it gets to us) but look at the flawed reasoning:

        "After yet another long season of seeing Williams get burnt in coverage something tells me that is going to change sooner rather than later though. It's really not Williams' fault as he's more suited to be an in-the-box type and by expecting him to cover wideouts deep you are simply asking for trouble."

        Why do I call this flawed reasoning on Scott's part?

        1) Roy never ever ever covers WR unless they are being released to him in a 2 Deep Zone. To say the D Coorindator and BP are exposing (as inplied) Roy to 1-1 with Randy Moss is incorrect.

        2) Roy is a SS he should be able to stick with a WR when he has a 20 yard cushion on a post or bomb. Maybe not as well as a FS but still...

        3) Roy's biggest problem in coverage are not WR -- they are called TEs. 6 TDs this year to TE. 1 to WR where Roy had the double with Watkins.

        4) The Cowboys run a 3-4 -- the use of a SS "in-the-box" is an occasional strategy. Even more occasional than the typical 4-3 scheme

        5) You can not have Roy in-the-box 100% of the time in any scheme. Talk about predictable.

        On another level this gets to my central point on Roy. There are too many individuals telling Roy this very same thing. Too many people repeating this into Jerry's ears. They are called enablers who are masking a real problem.

        Until there is a consensus opinion that Roy is hurting this team with his play (and not because he is "not in the box" or the coaches are not schmeing himright) our Defense will not be able to cover a TE and will continue to give up huge plays to WR.

        SS need to cover in the NFL, all 32 plus 32 back-ups. Designing any scheme to mask this flaw is irrational.
        starts slow clap...

        FS is not gonna "fix" the Roy Williams issues. Only Roy Williams can do that. If he doesn't shape up this offseason, unless the pass rush becomes really great he will continue to have the same issues.

        I think Dallas is on a BPA status. Im leaning towards CB however, considering the age of your CBs. I think you have solid depth at WR, no need to spend a 1st on a WR.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by cowboysforever
          Originally posted by bigbluedefense
          Maybe its because my head hurts and Im not thinking clearly, but last time I checked, didn't Dave Campo suck?

          I just remember him looking like a bafoon on the Dallas sidelines. There has to be a better candidate than him no?
          Hi BBD,

          Campo as HC is a dud but his Dallas Defenses (without much talent) where fairly good. Ran 4-3. Had the light DE concept. You can check the stats on NFL.com

          He was also a DB position coach who helped develop Darren Woodson as well as some of the decent later round DBs the Cowboys had through 2002.

          Any ideas on the Reggie Nelson mock to the Cowboys by Scott Wright? Love to see your post on the Cowboys board.
          I don't think a round 1 FS is necessary. I like Watkins progress and I think he's gonna be a solid player at FS with more time to develop. Everyone forgets that he was a rookie, he's gonna make mistakes.

          And like Ive said numerous times, a FS doesn't fix the Roy Williams issue, because his duties are independent of what Roy's duties are.

          Covering the TE, covering a deep zone, thats the issues right? Well, how is a FS gonna fix Roy's deficiencies in that area? If you assign your FS those responsibilties, moving him in the box to defend the TE, now you either have no safety zone up top, or you put Roy in that zone, which is useless anyway, so that accomplishes nothing.

          Like I said earlier, you don't sign a big money contract as a SS to cover the flats and blitz on passing downs, and play in the box for run support. You have linebackers for that. You might as well come out with 5 linebackers if thats the case. Roy's a safety, he needs to learn how to play like one. Period.

          Michael Lewis of the Eagles is great against the run. Great in the box. Also gives punishing hits. But he can't cover the TE at all, and can't cover a zone. He got BENCHED. Think about that, what makes him any different from Roy outside of a couple of highlight jacked up hits? Nothing.

          Im sticking to my guns here, Roy needs to lose weight to get better in coverage. As a former safety, I see that his mind is reacting quick enough but his body isn't. Thats because he's too damn big. Lose 20 pounds, and you'll see a totally different Roy Williams. But he needs to dedicate himself. If he continues to inflate his own ego and worry about "hammering" people, the Cowboys are in trouble next year.

          To sum it up, a FS does nothing to fix the issue at hand. Youre good at FS in the future with Watkins.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by bigbluedefense
            Originally posted by cowboysforever
            As an anaytical fan these are the things that bother me. Scott Wright has us drafting Reggie Nelson (great talent and great first pick if it gets to us) but look at the flawed reasoning:

            "After yet another long season of seeing Williams get burnt in coverage something tells me that is going to change sooner rather than later though. It's really not Williams' fault as he's more suited to be an in-the-box type and by expecting him to cover wideouts deep you are simply asking for trouble."

            Why do I call this flawed reasoning on Scott's part?

            1) Roy never ever ever covers WR unless they are being released to him in a 2 Deep Zone. To say the D Coorindator and BP are exposing (as inplied) Roy to 1-1 with Randy Moss is incorrect.

            2) Roy is a SS he should be able to stick with a WR when he has a 20 yard cushion on a post or bomb. Maybe not as well as a FS but still...

            3) Roy's biggest problem in coverage are not WR -- they are called TEs. 6 TDs this year to TE. 1 to WR where Roy had the double with Watkins.

            4) The Cowboys run a 3-4 -- the use of a SS "in-the-box" is an occasional strategy. Even more occasional than the typical 4-3 scheme

            5) You can not have Roy in-the-box 100% of the time in any scheme. Talk about predictable.

            On another level this gets to my central point on Roy. There are too many individuals telling Roy this very same thing. Too many people repeating this into Jerry's ears. They are called enablers who are masking a real problem.

            Until there is a consensus opinion that Roy is hurting this team with his play (and not because he is "not in the box" or the coaches are not schmeing himright) our Defense will not be able to cover a TE and will continue to give up huge plays to WR.

            SS need to cover in the NFL, all 32 plus 32 back-ups. Designing any scheme to mask this flaw is irrational.
            starts slow clap...

            FS is not gonna "fix" the Roy Williams issues. Only Roy Williams can do that. If he doesn't shape up this offseason, unless the pass rush becomes really great he will continue to have the same issues.

            I think Dallas is on a BPA status. Im leaning towards CB however, considering the age of your CBs. I think you have solid depth at WR, no need to spend a 1st on a WR.
            What do you mean by "starts slow clap?" Curious.

            CB in 1? If BPA you may be right but I think Nelson is one of those Ed Reed guys who can man-up if needed. But I don't have anything more than an eye ball test to make that statement.

            Also if we are going the route of the 3-4 with Zone coverage, the emerging consensus is you don't need to spend 1st round material on CB.

            This idea comes right from the Saban/Belichick school which may explain the GMen Second Rounder not panning out in the GMen's scheme.

            In fact, their are two positions folks are starting to say "don't invest a round 1 pick," CB and WR. Sounds odd given historical drafts but I have heard it repeated quite a bit. Too much talent later in the draft in that 190 to 220 lb range.

            Thoughts?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by bigbluedefense
              Originally posted by cowboysforever
              Originally posted by bigbluedefense
              Maybe its because my head hurts and Im not thinking clearly, but last time I checked, didn't Dave Campo suck?

              I just remember him looking like a bafoon on the Dallas sidelines. There has to be a better candidate than him no?
              Hi BBD,

              Campo as HC is a dud but his Dallas Defenses (without much talent) where fairly good. Ran 4-3. Had the light DE concept. You can check the stats on NFL.com

              He was also a DB position coach who helped develop Darren Woodson as well as some of the decent later round DBs the Cowboys had through 2002.

              Any ideas on the Reggie Nelson mock to the Cowboys by Scott Wright? Love to see your post on the Cowboys board.
              I don't think a round 1 FS is necessary. I like Watkins progress and I think he's gonna be a solid player at FS with more time to develop. Everyone forgets that he was a rookie, he's gonna make mistakes.

              And like Ive said numerous times, a FS doesn't fix the Roy Williams issue, because his duties are independent of what Roy's duties are.

              Covering the TE, covering a deep zone, thats the issues right? Well, how is a FS gonna fix Roy's deficiencies in that area? If you assign your FS those responsibilties, moving him in the box to defend the TE, now you either have no safety zone up top, or you put Roy in that zone, which is useless anyway, so that accomplishes nothing.

              Like I said earlier, you don't sign a big money contract as a SS to cover the flats and blitz on passing downs, and play in the box for run support. You have linebackers for that. You might as well come out with 5 linebackers if thats the case. Roy's a safety, he needs to learn how to play like one. Period.

              Michael Lewis of the Eagles is great against the run. Great in the box. Also gives punishing hits. But he can't cover the TE at all, and can't cover a zone. He got BENCHED. Think about that, what makes him any different from Roy outside of a couple of highlight jacked up hits? Nothing.

              Im sticking to my guns here, Roy needs to lose weight to get better in coverage. As a former safety, I see that his mind is reacting quick enough but his body isn't. Thats because he's too damn big. Lose 20 pounds, and you'll see a totally different Roy Williams. But he needs to dedicate himself. If he continues to inflate his own ego and worry about "hammering" people, the Cowboys are in trouble next year.

              To sum it up, a FS does nothing to fix the issue at hand. Youre good at FS in the future with Watkins.
              That folks is Gospel. Someone should email it to Jerra and Scott W. Thanks BBD.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by cowboysforever
                Originally posted by bigbluedefense
                Originally posted by cowboysforever
                As an anaytical fan these are the things that bother me. Scott Wright has us drafting Reggie Nelson (great talent and great first pick if it gets to us) but look at the flawed reasoning:

                "After yet another long season of seeing Williams get burnt in coverage something tells me that is going to change sooner rather than later though. It's really not Williams' fault as he's more suited to be an in-the-box type and by expecting him to cover wideouts deep you are simply asking for trouble."

                Why do I call this flawed reasoning on Scott's part?

                1) Roy never ever ever covers WR unless they are being released to him in a 2 Deep Zone. To say the D Coorindator and BP are exposing (as inplied) Roy to 1-1 with Randy Moss is incorrect.

                2) Roy is a SS he should be able to stick with a WR when he has a 20 yard cushion on a post or bomb. Maybe not as well as a FS but still...

                3) Roy's biggest problem in coverage are not WR -- they are called TEs. 6 TDs this year to TE. 1 to WR where Roy had the double with Watkins.

                4) The Cowboys run a 3-4 -- the use of a SS "in-the-box" is an occasional strategy. Even more occasional than the typical 4-3 scheme

                5) You can not have Roy in-the-box 100% of the time in any scheme. Talk about predictable.

                On another level this gets to my central point on Roy. There are too many individuals telling Roy this very same thing. Too many people repeating this into Jerry's ears. They are called enablers who are masking a real problem.

                Until there is a consensus opinion that Roy is hurting this team with his play (and not because he is "not in the box" or the coaches are not schmeing himright) our Defense will not be able to cover a TE and will continue to give up huge plays to WR.

                SS need to cover in the NFL, all 32 plus 32 back-ups. Designing any scheme to mask this flaw is irrational.
                starts slow clap...

                FS is not gonna "fix" the Roy Williams issues. Only Roy Williams can do that. If he doesn't shape up this offseason, unless the pass rush becomes really great he will continue to have the same issues.

                I think Dallas is on a BPA status. Im leaning towards CB however, considering the age of your CBs. I think you have solid depth at WR, no need to spend a 1st on a WR.
                What do you mean by "starts slow clap?" Curious.

                CB in 1? If BPA you may be right but I think Nelson is one of those Ed Reed guys who can man-up if needed. But I don't have anything more than an eye ball test to make that statement.

                Also if we are going the route of the 3-4 with Zone coverage, the emerging consensus is you don't need to spend 1st round material on CB.

                This idea comes right from the Saban/Belichick school which may explain the GMen Second Rounder not panning out in the GMen's scheme.

                In fact, their are two positions folks are starting to say "don't invest a round 1 pick," CB and WR. Sounds odd given historical drafts but I have heard it repeated quite a bit. Too much talent later in the draft in that 190 to 220 lb range.

                Thoughts?
                Slow clap because I agree with you.

                And yes, I do agree with the consensus that CBs and WRs are overrated. Simple reason why. This league is about stopping the run and running the ball. The pass game itself is overrated. Stopping it and creating it aren't round 1 needs.

                A great pass rush is all you need in the pass game. Having a shutdown corner is great, but its so hard to find that guy, you gotta get lucky to get one. 9 out of 10 times nabbing a CB in round 1 is not worth it in general.

                And I absolutely hate drafting WRs in round 1. Rookie WRs barely make any impact, and their production is too dependent on other factors, such as pass protection and qb. I hate drafting round 1 WRs.

                The zone principles of the 3-4...it depends on the the DC. Some guys favor heavy blitzing and man coverage, some favor zone blitzing. Some are really passive and only rush 4 all the time. It all depends.

                Bellichick and BP have identical schemes. The only difference is BP favors a little more man coverage than Bellichick does, but their schemes are almost identical. Bellichick learned everything from BP remember.

                This team is so hard to project. The talent should be there. But for whatever reasons, it didn't show up this year. So its really hard to point at one issue and call that the reason of the demise. Thats why Im leaning towards BPA.

                Right now, while I know I said CB is overrated, if he's BPA you might as well take him. If you aren't on a BPA status, id take Blaylock. Heck, id take Blaylock in Round 1, and Ramirez in round 3 or even 2. That would really help the team out the most imo. Helps the run game, which helps the defense sometimes moreso than anything else.

                Comment


                • Watkins Progression? Did I miss something? I didn't see anything that could remotely be considered an improvement from him. I love the Nelson pick by the way.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Paul
                    Watkins Progression? Did I miss something? I didn't see anything that could remotely be considered an improvement from him. I love the Nelson pick by the way.
                    He definately progressed. Name one play where he cost you guys in the last 2 games of the season or in the playoffs.

                    And outside of a couple of deep burns, particularly against Philly, he really didn't play bad to begin with. At one point he was leading the team in tackles.

                    And this is the most important part, the part that everyone seems to forget. He was a ROOKIE. He made rookie mistakes. But he's gonna get better. He was a project coming in. You can't expect him to get it right away. With an offseason under him he'll be much better.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ncbigbody
                      You guys gotta be kidding. Because some kid who made some mistakes cant be given a second chance, give me a break. You dont know how hard he studys tape, you dont know how hard he practices. All I know is the kid can make plays.

                      I haven't even seen him get any personal fouls. Dont be so quick to judge his character.

                      Yea, yeah, he got caught fighting in the Miami brawl this year, but basically every player was involved in that fight.
                      Someone who starts swinging his helmet at other players during a football game have no place playing football period.

                      Desings by D-Unit

                      Comment


                      • I have to say that I'm warming up to the idea of Reggie Nelson. Roy certainly does have to get better in coverage, but he is one of the best run-stuffers in the league...so here's my idea. Go with Roy and Nelson on 1st and 2nd downs, and then move Roy to linebacker in passing situations, with Watkins coming in to play safety. As I've said, Roy is certainly better in coverage than Brady James, and probably any of our other linebackers. Watkins can provide depth at both safety spots, and gives us the versatility to make this move.

                        Here's an indication of something that I think is wrong with our defense: Watkins frequently came out on first and second downs to be replaced by a 3rd corner. I haven't specifically looked at the film, but I am assuming that Roy was left in deep patrol alone in those situations. What this indicates to me is that the staff does not think incredibly highly of Watkins. But to me there is also a problem with leaving Roy back there alone.

                        Of course, I would not object to Blalock if he were available, as Scott's mock suggests.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Paul
                          Watkins Progression? Did I miss something? I didn't see anything that could remotely be considered an improvement from him. I love the Nelson pick by the way.
                          I strongly disagree. Watkins had a few good picks and managed the middle of the field fairly well. Where did you see Watkins habitually giving up TDs in the passing game in the last 4/5 games?

                          As bad as the entire D played in the last 4 games -- WR only had 7 of the TDs. TEs and FBs had 6.

                          Of the 7 WR TDs, most where fades or outs playing man or guys crossing the zone. Detroit had 3 (R Williams II TD and M Williams and Furrey). Atlanta had 2 (Lelie and Jenkins).

                          Only two TDs where in the "FS zone" over the last four weeks. Devery Henderson and I can't rmember the coverage and Roy Williams I TD which I think was a skinny post but can't remember.

                          So...... I want a FS who is seen but not heard from. But it hard to play FS when he has to cover his assignments and Roy Williams 230lb ankle tacklers assignments.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by bigbluedefense
                            Originally posted by Paul
                            Watkins Progression? Did I miss something? I didn't see anything that could remotely be considered an improvement from him. I love the Nelson pick by the way.
                            He definately progressed. Name one play where he cost you guys in the last 2 games of the season or in the playoffs.

                            And outside of a couple of deep burns, particularly against Philly, he really didn't play bad to begin with. At one point he was leading the team in tackles.

                            And this is the most important part, the part that everyone seems to forget. He was a ROOKIE. He made rookie mistakes. But he's gonna get better. He was a project coming in. You can't expect him to get it right away. With an offseason under him he'll be much better.
                            Even as rookie I expect some flashes of brilliance and playmaking ability that could validate peoples' love of him. I stated this before, but not once did I see a play from Watkins that made me believe he was the answer. Not one game, not one play, not one down from him. He had a nice pick against the lions, but kitna pretty much threw into triple coverage.

                            To defend the Nelson pick, although I rather much see Blalock but the OG depth is stacked this year, Nelson could be our Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu. A playmaker in the centerfield variety, who can fly around the field and create turnovers. Great in coverage, with CB ability. That's just my take on Scott's pick.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Paul
                              Originally posted by bigbluedefense
                              Originally posted by Paul
                              Watkins Progression? Did I miss something? I didn't see anything that could remotely be considered an improvement from him. I love the Nelson pick by the way.
                              He definately progressed. Name one play where he cost you guys in the last 2 games of the season or in the playoffs.

                              And outside of a couple of deep burns, particularly against Philly, he really didn't play bad to begin with. At one point he was leading the team in tackles.

                              And this is the most important part, the part that everyone seems to forget. He was a ROOKIE. He made rookie mistakes. But he's gonna get better. He was a project coming in. You can't expect him to get it right away. With an offseason under him he'll be much better.
                              Even as rookie I expect some flashes of brilliance and playmaking ability that could validate peoples' love of him. I stated this before, but not once did I see a play from Watkins that made me believe he was the answer. Not one game, not one play, not one down from him. He had a nice pick against the lions, but kitna pretty much threw into triple coverage.

                              To defend the Nelson pick, although I rather much see Blalock but the OG depth is stacked this year, Nelson could be our Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu. A playmaker in the centerfield variety, who can fly around the field and create turnovers. Great in coverage, with CB ability. That's just my take on Scott's pick.
                              There are two separate things here.

                              1) A FS is supposed to pick off passes into double and triple coverage. That is his job when QBs make mistakes. Ed Reed is exactly that.

                              2) A FS playing man is not expected to get lots of picks - and only if the ball is badly thrown

                              3) Nelson can play. No arguing but if you ask me sit Roy and play Watkins and Nelson. Watkins can cover TEs and showed good spunk hitting guys in the flats.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by cowboysforever
                                Originally posted by Paul
                                Watkins Progression? Did I miss something? I didn't see anything that could remotely be considered an improvement from him. I love the Nelson pick by the way.
                                I strongly disagree. Watkins had a few good picks and managed the middle of the field fairly well. Where did you see Watkins habitually giving up TDs in the passing game in the last 4/5 games?

                                As bad as the entire D played in the last 4 games -- WR only had 7 of the TDs. TEs and FBs had 6.

                                Of the 7 WR TDs, most where fades or outs playing man or guys crossing the zone. Detroit had 3 (R Williams II TD and M Williams and Furrey). Atlanta had 2 (Lelie and Jenkins).

                                Only two TDs where in the "FS zone" over the last four weeks. Devery Henderson and I can't rmember the coverage and Roy Williams I TD which I think was a skinny post but can't remember.

                                So...... I want a FS who is seen but not heard from. But it hard to play FS when he has to cover his assignments and Roy Williams 230lb ankle tacklers assignments.
                                True, and maybe valid statement. But I still feel Nelson is leaps and bounds better then Watkins. With that upgrade, and the progression of Carp and the rest of the front 7, I feel our D can be in the upper tier of the League. But to all there own.

                                Comment

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