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  • Originally posted by Paul
    Originally posted by bigbluedefense
    Originally posted by Paul
    Watkins Progression? Did I miss something? I didn't see anything that could remotely be considered an improvement from him. I love the Nelson pick by the way.
    He definately progressed. Name one play where he cost you guys in the last 2 games of the season or in the playoffs.

    And outside of a couple of deep burns, particularly against Philly, he really didn't play bad to begin with. At one point he was leading the team in tackles.

    And this is the most important part, the part that everyone seems to forget. He was a ROOKIE. He made rookie mistakes. But he's gonna get better. He was a project coming in. You can't expect him to get it right away. With an offseason under him he'll be much better.
    Even as rookie I expect some flashes of brilliance and playmaking ability that could validate peoples' love of him. I stated this before, but not once did I see a play from Watkins that made me believe he was the answer. Not one game, not one play, not one down from him. He had a nice pick against the lions, but kitna pretty much threw into triple coverage.

    To defend the Nelson pick, although I rather much see Blalock but the OG depth is stacked this year, Nelson could be our Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu. A playmaker in the centerfield variety, who can fly around the field and create turnovers. Great in coverage, with CB ability. That's just my take on Scott's pick.
    I would not put Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed in the same sentence.

    Polamalu is a SS.

    Ed Reed is a FS.

    Mixing apples and oranges.

    Plus to say Roy can't hit at 210 or 215 then what about Polamalu who plays 215?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Paul
      Originally posted by cowboysforever
      Originally posted by Paul
      Watkins Progression? Did I miss something? I didn't see anything that could remotely be considered an improvement from him. I love the Nelson pick by the way.
      I strongly disagree. Watkins had a few good picks and managed the middle of the field fairly well. Where did you see Watkins habitually giving up TDs in the passing game in the last 4/5 games?

      As bad as the entire D played in the last 4 games -- WR only had 7 of the TDs. TEs and FBs had 6.

      Of the 7 WR TDs, most where fades or outs playing man or guys crossing the zone. Detroit had 3 (R Williams II TD and M Williams and Furrey). Atlanta had 2 (Lelie and Jenkins).

      Only two TDs where in the "FS zone" over the last four weeks. Devery Henderson and I can't rmember the coverage and Roy Williams I TD which I think was a skinny post but can't remember.

      So...... I want a FS who is seen but not heard from. But it hard to play FS when he has to cover his assignments and Roy Williams 230lb ankle tacklers assignments.
      True, and maybe valid statement. But I still feel Nelson is leaps and bounds better then Watkins. With that upgrade, and the progression of Carp and the rest of the front 7, I feel our D can be in the upper tier of the League. But to all there own.
      Nelson is very talented and may be a better ball hawk as a FS. Have nothing to say otherwise.

      BUT the real questions is given everything you need and given Watkins is pretty good as a Rookie do you spend a 1 on this??????

      And if you do spend a 1 on this, then is possibly Watkins an improvement over Roy at SS or is Elam an improvement over Roy and Watkins?

      I dunno but I would gather Elam or Watkins could beat Roy Williams out in a "blind taste" test as a SS.... not LB.

      I would love Parcells to come into the draft saying "who starts at SS is open to competition."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by cowboysforever
        Originally posted by Paul
        Originally posted by bigbluedefense
        Originally posted by Paul
        Watkins Progression? Did I miss something? I didn't see anything that could remotely be considered an improvement from him. I love the Nelson pick by the way.
        He definately progressed. Name one play where he cost you guys in the last 2 games of the season or in the playoffs.

        And outside of a couple of deep burns, particularly against Philly, he really didn't play bad to begin with. At one point he was leading the team in tackles.

        And this is the most important part, the part that everyone seems to forget. He was a ROOKIE. He made rookie mistakes. But he's gonna get better. He was a project coming in. You can't expect him to get it right away. With an offseason under him he'll be much better.
        Even as rookie I expect some flashes of brilliance and playmaking ability that could validate peoples' love of him. I stated this before, but not once did I see a play from Watkins that made me believe he was the answer. Not one game, not one play, not one down from him. He had a nice pick against the lions, but kitna pretty much threw into triple coverage.

        To defend the Nelson pick, although I rather much see Blalock but the OG depth is stacked this year, Nelson could be our Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu. A playmaker in the centerfield variety, who can fly around the field and create turnovers. Great in coverage, with CB ability. That's just my take on Scott's pick.
        I would not put Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed in the same sentence.

        Polamalu is a SS.

        Ed Reed is a FS.

        Mixing apples and oranges.

        Plus to say Roy can't hit at 210 or 215 then what about Polamalu who plays 215?
        I'm not comparing them as in position, but impact in the secondary. But I do agree Roy does need to lose a little weight, so I'm with you on that point.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Paul
          Originally posted by cowboysforever
          Originally posted by Paul
          Originally posted by bigbluedefense
          Originally posted by Paul
          Watkins Progression? Did I miss something? I didn't see anything that could remotely be considered an improvement from him. I love the Nelson pick by the way.
          He definately progressed. Name one play where he cost you guys in the last 2 games of the season or in the playoffs.

          And outside of a couple of deep burns, particularly against Philly, he really didn't play bad to begin with. At one point he was leading the team in tackles.

          And this is the most important part, the part that everyone seems to forget. He was a ROOKIE. He made rookie mistakes. But he's gonna get better. He was a project coming in. You can't expect him to get it right away. With an offseason under him he'll be much better.
          Even as rookie I expect some flashes of brilliance and playmaking ability that could validate peoples' love of him. I stated this before, but not once did I see a play from Watkins that made me believe he was the answer. Not one game, not one play, not one down from him. He had a nice pick against the lions, but kitna pretty much threw into triple coverage.

          To defend the Nelson pick, although I rather much see Blalock but the OG depth is stacked this year, Nelson could be our Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu. A playmaker in the centerfield variety, who can fly around the field and create turnovers. Great in coverage, with CB ability. That's just my take on Scott's pick.
          I would not put Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed in the same sentence.

          Polamalu is a SS.

          Ed Reed is a FS.

          Mixing apples and oranges.

          Plus to say Roy can't hit at 210 or 215 then what about Polamalu who plays 215?
          I'm not comparing them as in position, but impact in the secondary. But I do agree Roy does need to lose a little weight, so I'm with you on that point.
          Cool.

          Comment


          • There is no way we can or should draft two OGs. We simply would not have room for them on the roster. Cory Proctor, a former practice squad guy that we have been grooming for the last few years, has demonstrated enough progress that he may even challenge for a starting spot next year. Unless he can make the transition to center, then there isn't room for more than 1 additional guard. Now, if we planned on moving Blalock out to RT, getting rid of Colombo and possibly canning Rivera, then it would be a good idea to draft Ramirez in addition to drafting Blalock.

            We don't need quantity, we need quality. That's why Blalock, to me, would be such a great fit for us. He seems to be in the mold of a Hutchinson, Andrews or Faneca, in that he would be a dominant in-line blocker, with the ability to play on the outside in a pinch. We need someone that is nasty and strong enough to demolish people in the run game. With McQuistan coming along, Gurode and Kosier both still improving, and possible influx of talent with Blalock, we have a shot to move into the top third or so in the league if things fall correctly.



            It never ceases to amaze me how wildly fans overreact. If this board constitutes a good sample of Cowboys Nation, then there are a lot of silver and blue knees jerking wildly out there.

            There are no serious problems with this team. The difference between winning and losing in this league is ever so small. The Patriots are the perfect example of this. One key play here and there is all it takes to torpedo a season, or propel a team to SB contention.

            LSU made some excellent points. This league is all about excecution. Part of that is coaching. Part is talent. Part is intelligence. Part is determination and will power. And a very small part is luck. If you can refine yourself, as a player, to the point that you don't make stupid mistakes, always know where you are supposed to go and what you are supposed to do, and do all the little things, then you will always be in position to win the game.

            We are all sitting around and freaking out about a defense that completely self-destructed in the last 4 games. But if you were to go back and look at each game separately, without knowing that they occured consecutively, you would say something different about each game. The one consistent is that we were regularly exploited in the deep middle of the field (except in the Falcon game), with a combination of Keith Davis - who we all know has no business on the field - Pat Watkins - who was actually exploited the least of all - Roy Williams - who has been discussed ad naseum - and Nate Jones - who is nothing more than a filler.

            In all the other games, it was different - and correctable - problems that doomed us. For example, we had the two games where we couldn't cover a FB out of the backfield to save our souls....but then the backs for Philly and Detroit didn't so jack sh** against us.

            In the Detroit game, which I just rewatched last night, Aaron Glenn got absolutely abused. I mean, it was nasty. Not only that, even T-New - undsiputed best player on the defense - was beaten badly more than once. In the Atl game, there was a couple breakdowns in coverage that resulted in two huge pass plays down the sideline; one on each side. In the Philly game, there was just no fire. No competitive streak anywhere on the whole team. We simply didn't seem to care much, and no one on the whole team got anything going.

            So, as you see, there isn't one glaring thing that plagued us all throughout the rest of the season, with the lone exception of our deep middle. I take serious issue with the whole "Sean Peyton provided the blue print to beat us" bull-crap. We simply didn't execute, and we made stupid ass mistakes that a professional team should never make. Plain and simple.

            Moving forward, there is no reason for extreme solutions. Romo was very good this year, there is reason to expect him to improve considerably with a full off-season as the starter, as well as his experiences gained from this season.

            DeMarcus has been extremely explosive for much of the season. As he begins to develop as a pass rusher, and learn to use his hands better, he will also take it to another level.

            TO, through with his season of discontent, when an unbelievable series of events created plenty of distraction for the team, as well as two medical conditions preventing him from performing at his optimum levels, should be even more productive next year, and, imho, much less of a distraction.

            There are lots of areas in which we should naturally improve, and though there will be new unforeseen challenges that come along as well, the positive should waaaaay outweight the negative. We're loaded with young talent. We finally seem to have a QB that we can move forward and build around (though it's not a for-sure thing, yet).

            The point is, many here are approaching this off season the same way we were after the 04 season, in which we were simply horrible, and needed a complete retooling. That should not be the case. We need an extra player here or there, some improvement for your youngsters, a scheme tweak or two....and if it happens, we could easily be the Chargers of next year (though hopefully without the pitiful playoff performance). I really wish people would quit coming in here and freaking out.
            Originally posted by 21ST
            He was protecting his self
            Originally posted by tjsunstein
            From what? His leg?
            Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck
            That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
            "We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

            DeMarcus Ware

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DMWSackMachine
              There is no way we can or should draft two OGs. We simply would not have room for them on the roster. Cory Proctor, a former practice squad guy that we have been grooming for the last few years, has demonstrated enough progress that he may even challenge for a starting spot next year. Unless he can make the transition to center, then there isn't room for more than 1 additional guard. Now, if we planned on moving Blalock out to RT, getting rid of Colombo and possibly canning Rivera, then it would be a good idea to draft Ramirez in addition to drafting Blalock.

              We don't need quantity, we need quality. That's why Blalock, to me, would be such a great fit for us. He seems to be in the mold of a Hutchinson, Andrews or Faneca, in that he would be a dominant in-line blocker, with the ability to play on the outside in a pinch. We need someone that is nasty and strong enough to demolish people in the run game. With McQuistan coming along, Gurode and Kosier both still improving, and possible influx of talent with Blalock, we have a shot to move into the top third or so in the league if things fall correctly.



              It never ceases to amaze me how wildly fans overreact. If this board constitutes a good sample of Cowboys Nation, then there are a lot of silver and blue knees jerking wildly out there.

              There are no serious problems with this team. The difference between winning and losing in this league is ever so small. The Patriots are the perfect example of this. One key play here and there is all it takes to torpedo a season, or propel a team to SB contention.

              LSU made some excellent points. This league is all about excecution. Part of that is coaching. Part is talent. Part is intelligence. Part is determination and will power. And a very small part is luck. If you can refine yourself, as a player, to the point that you don't make stupid mistakes, always know where you are supposed to go and what you are supposed to do, and do all the little things, then you will always be in position to win the game.

              We are all sitting around and freaking out about a defense that completely self-destructed in the last 4 games. But if you were to go back and look at each game separately, without knowing that they occured consecutively, you would say something different about each game. The one consistent is that we were regularly exploited in the deep middle of the field (except in the Falcon game), with a combination of Keith Davis - who we all know has no business on the field - Pat Watkins - who was actually exploited the least of all - Roy Williams - who has been discussed ad naseum - and Nate Jones - who is nothing more than a filler.

              In all the other games, it was different - and correctable - problems that doomed us. For example, we had the two games where we couldn't cover a FB out of the backfield to save our souls....but then the backs for Philly and Detroit didn't so jack sh** against us.

              In the Detroit game, which I just rewatched last night, Aaron Glenn got absolutely abused. I mean, it was nasty. Not only that, even T-New - undsiputed best player on the defense - was beaten badly more than once. In the Atl game, there was a couple breakdowns in coverage that resulted in two huge pass plays down the sideline; one on each side. In the Philly game, there was just no fire. No competitive streak anywhere on the whole team. We simply didn't seem to care much, and no one on the whole team got anything going.

              So, as you see, there isn't one glaring thing that plagued us all throughout the rest of the season, with the lone exception of our deep middle. I take serious issue with the whole "Sean Peyton provided the blue print to beat us" bull-crap. We simply didn't execute, and we made stupid ass mistakes that a professional team should never make. Plain and simple.

              Moving forward, there is no reason for extreme solutions. Romo was very good this year, there is reason to expect him to improve considerably with a full off-season as the starter, as well as his experiences gained from this season.

              DeMarcus has been extremely explosive for much of the season. As he begins to develop as a pass rusher, and learn to use his hands better, he will also take it to another level.

              TO, through with his season of discontent, when an unbelievable series of events created plenty of distraction for the team, as well as two medical conditions preventing him from performing at his optimum levels, should be even more productive next year, and, imho, much less of a distraction.

              There are lots of areas in which we should naturally improve, and though there will be new unforeseen challenges that come along as well, the positive should waaaaay outweight the negative. We're loaded with young talent. We finally seem to have a QB that we can move forward and build around (though it's not a for-sure thing, yet).

              The point is, many here are approaching this off season the same way we were after the 04 season, in which we were simply horrible, and needed a complete retooling. That should not be the case. We need an extra player here or there, some improvement for your youngsters, a scheme tweak or two....and if it happens, we could easily be the Chargers of next year (though hopefully without the pitiful playoff performance). I really wish people would quit coming in here and freaking out.
              Why do you say folks are over-reacting? Because there are a few posters who believe we need better SS play and are discussing a solution? Because a few of us think this SS issue maybe the biggest personnel problem on the D? (** personnel!!! pass rush is assumed to improve with the young guys we already have **) To boot, who said draft two OGs early? One (1), I have seen but two (2)? Where? I have heard one FA and one young Guard if that is the concern.

              Coverage by our SS has been an issue for two years. It is a false straw man to say "4 Weeks." In those 4 weeks, it can be aruged that the SS problems where compounded by poor zone play by another lovable figure, our ILB Bradie James.

              Again, as a avid fan and amateur analyst these problems existed long before hand and as proof I have you, LSU et al calling me names when I pointed it out. Forgot already?

              Like I said before, you, LSU and a few others really just want to shut down discussion by demeaning and dismissing other folks ideas. You seem to want to control content for no purpose other than to satisfy your points. Not saying your points are wrong nor that they are poorly thought out -- contrary. You guys make good points -- for example repeating an earlier point about what are we going to do with an FA Guard and Rd 1 Draft Guard, Kosier and Proctor. OK, fine and smar.

              But you can have a position, and should, but cease the adhominem dismissal of opinions. It what set me off from day 1 with some of the posters here.

              You want to attack an opinion -- get facts and figures and use some qualititative analysis. The anti-Roy SS folks (like) me are doing just that and it does not make "nutty crazy radicals on Madden."

              And to boot, you are a fan too.

              Comment


              • As you all know, I absolutely love the Reggie Nelson pick! :D

                I've been clamoring for him for a while now... and have kept saying... he's not a top 15 pick regardless of all they hype he gets from the guys that visit this forum.

                First point I want to make is the addition of Reggie Nelson will improve our FS position right off the bat. Forget what other positions and other people it will help for now. It will improve our FS position! A position that has been a sore spot since Woody went down.

                Secondly, the addition of Nelson to the team will help Roy Williams. To say that there will be no effect, is flat out denial. How substantial that help will be is up for debate, but it will help to have someone with the coverage and playmaking ability of Reggie Nelson playing opposite of Roy.

                Third, the addition of Nelson doesn't mean we're writing Watkins off into the sunset. Hell no! It means we're improving the depth that we have at that position and turning a major weakness into a major strength. In fact, Watkins could even step in occassionally for Roy at SS. Our depth, our rotation, our talent level and our secondary as a whole has been soft and porous for a long time now. Our run defense has been our strength for years now....

                Which brings up my fourth point... The addition of Nelson to bolster the strength of our secondary, will help to improve our pass rush attack. More pressure will be created if QBs have a hard time finding an open receiver.

                Fifth... the guy is a "playmaker" in every sense of the word. ...and when you have a guy like this on your team... playmaking becomes contagious! It becomes a mentality. It becomes a game, a friendly competition among teammates.... it becomes second nature. You add a guy like that and all of a sudden, the guys around him get motivated to come up with plays of their own.

                Sixth, if the deep coverage is held in check, then the pass will be directed to the corners... and the more they try to attack Newman, the better our odds. Henry, is another issue, but I think even Henry would improve knowing full well that he can trust the guy behind him.

                Seventh, we're not only talking about deep coverage help here. Nelson could have an effect deep, middle or near the line of scrimmage. He's a hard hitter and can lay the wood.

                Eight... he's great on special teams. Anyone remember the last time we've ever blocked a kick? I sure don't. Nelson blocked 2 kicks this past season using his sheer speed to turn the corner and get to the ball.

                Ninth, comparing our needs with the talent available to us when we're on the clock... if Nelson is there, this is a no brainer. Sure we have other holes to fill, but considering BPA that fills a need, Nelson is the man. There aren't any NTs worth taking. OG could be a need, but Blalock is not rated higher than Nelson nor is it a playmaker position. WR? No. This draft is too deep for WR and you simply don't need great WRs to win in this league. ...and I don't want our first round WR sitting on the bench waiting for his chance to start in a few seasons down the line.

                Tenth... I could go on and on about how this would be the ideal pick for us.

                Comment


                • Eleventh, he has dreads, I've yet to see bad player with dreads. That's the icing on top.

                  Comment


                  • Hey cowboysforever,
                    I'm pretty sure you've made your point about Roy's lack of coverage ability at the SS position. Guess what? Nobody disagrees with you that he has a major problem in that area of his game. This is not an opinion that is only felt by you. This is not about you versus everyone else, because everyone else agrees that Roy needs to improve his in his pass coverage. Got that?

                    Ok. Now... you need to understand this. Roy Williams is not going anywhere. We are not trading him. We are not cutting him. We are not going to be asking him to change positions. We simply have to live with him at SS. There's no going around it. All we can do is try to cover up his weakness. ...and there are many ways to do that. That is what the discussion should be about. We all know he needs to be better, but that will only improve by his own doing.

                    So you can stop your broken record act about how Roy sucks in coverage... Tell us something we don't already know.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by D-Unit
                      Hey cowboysforever,
                      Ok. Now... you need to understand this. Roy Williams is not going anywhere. We are not trading him. We are not cutting him. We are not going to be asking him to change positions. We simply have to live with him at SS. There's no going around it. All we can do is try to cover up his weakness. ...
                      We are fundamentally in disagreement over 2 premise.

                      1) What we can or can not do with Roy if the offseason.

                      I say we can. You say we can't. I have my data to support my point.

                      2) Whether Roy's weaknesses can be covered up at all while improving the overall D.

                      I say no. You say yes.

                      "Ok. Now... you need to understand this." You are not the final author on opinions and certainly not fact based ones. And to me, the opinion you echo is like an ostrich with its head in the sand.

                      So.... repeat, this is a blog for folks to opine. Look forward to hearing them. Stop being a self appointed editor.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by cowboysforever
                        Originally posted by D-Unit
                        Hey cowboysforever,
                        Ok. Now... you need to understand this. Roy Williams is not going anywhere. We are not trading him. We are not cutting him. We are not going to be asking him to change positions. We simply have to live with him at SS. There's no going around it. All we can do is try to cover up his weakness. ...
                        We are fundamentally in disagreement over 2 premise.

                        1) What we can or can not do with Roy if the offseason.

                        I say we can. You say we can't. I have my data to support my point.

                        2) Whether Roy's weaknesses can be covered up at all while improving the overall D.

                        I say no. You say yes.

                        You are not the final author on opinions and certainly not fact based ones.
                        I want to see your data about whether Roy can either be traded this offseason or whether he will be changing positions.

                        Cause it does not make any sense for us to cut him.

                        Covering up your weaknesses and expoiting your strengths are what football coaching and strategy is all about. To say that we cannot cover or hide a weakness and still improve the level of play is false.

                        Comment


                        • Actually, I believe the word "Admin" beneath his name means more than "self appointed editor", but that could be just me.
                          Originally posted by 21ST
                          He was protecting his self
                          Originally posted by tjsunstein
                          From what? His leg?
                          Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck
                          That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
                          "We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

                          DeMarcus Ware

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by D-Unit
                            Originally posted by cowboysforever
                            Originally posted by D-Unit
                            Hey cowboysforever,
                            Ok. Now... you need to understand this. Roy Williams is not going anywhere. We are not trading him. We are not cutting him. We are not going to be asking him to change positions. We simply have to live with him at SS. There's no going around it. All we can do is try to cover up his weakness. ...
                            We are fundamentally in disagreement over 2 premise.

                            1) What we can or can not do with Roy if the offseason.

                            I say we can. You say we can't. I have my data to support my point.

                            2) Whether Roy's weaknesses can be covered up at all while improving the overall D.

                            I say no. You say yes.

                            You are not the final author on opinions and certainly not fact based ones.
                            I want to see your data about whether Roy can either be traded this offseason or whether he will be changing positions.

                            Cause it does not make any sense for us to cut him.

                            Covering up your weaknesses and expoiting your strengths are what football coaching and strategy is all about. To say that we cannot cover or hide a weakness and still improve the level of play is false.
                            I can't stand to be quiet any longer.

                            Cowboysforever what is so hard to understand here?
                            RW will come into camp next year as the starting SS, and thats the bottom line.

                            Stop with your stupid RW fantasies, you've said your bit now get over it. You have a right to express your opinion on this board, but why do you have to say the same thing about RW 100 times? This isn't fantasy football, and it isn't Madden. And YOU are not the GM of the Cowboys. Jerry paid this guy because like it or not he is a cornerstone of this franchise. He sells jerseys, he sells tickets, he makes highlight hits, he is durable (82 straight starts) and has made big plays throughout his career.

                            We are all in agreement that his coverage has been bad, and his tackling has left much to be desired of late.

                            This discussion was fine last year, before Jerry gave away millions to Roy, BUT, with that contract he will not be traded, nor will he be released. We can hope he improves because he will be on the field again next year.

                            Oh and RW is NOT a LB, never has been never will be he is a Safety, the RW to LB stuff is garbage too. Roy has never been willing to take on blockers, what is he going to do when 300 pound guards and tackles are coming his way on every play? This is not madden people, RW is a SS.

                            So..can we discuss how this defense can be improved besides cutting or trading half the defense?? All this doom and gloom after a tough playoff loss. Get it together people, the difference between us crying for half the defense's heads, and us playing the Saints on Sunday is such a fine margin.

                            Comment


                            • imo the # 1 offseason move we should make is to sign kris dielman ufa from san deigo. he is a mauler and a great run blocker. to me this sures up our o-line and hes in his prime at 26 years old. this move would truly allow us to take bpa, or as i have been advocating, trading up and getting a true impact player. if we stay where we are i really like the nelson pick but wouldnt mind a corner here either. anybody else like dielman as much as i do?




                              The greastest team of all time...The OKLAHOMA SOONERS!!! http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3849468

                              Comment


                              • You guys know Mike Zimmer better than anybody else. My question; what will he do with Jimmy Williams? Scott seems convinced that they will move him to Free Safety. I am not so sure. Thoughts?

                                Comment

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