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  • Originally posted by D-Unit
    Originally posted by Paul
    So are you saying Fergies play was inconsistent this past season? He was probably our best Defensive player next to Dware, he was truly a beast against the run. Why is he so unappreciated around here?
    He was a beast against the run because he wasn't doing his job. He's supposed to be occupying the blockers and allowing the LBs to stuff the run... That's how the 3-4 is supposed to work. Instead he's shooting the gaps himself and stopping the run. Like I said.. He's not a true NT and in fact plays more like a 3 technique tackle.
    So your gonna criticize him for disrupting the run and making play in the backfield?

    And I have to say our run defense was not the problem for us, it was the pass. How will Tyler aide that?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Staubach12
      Originally posted by D-Unit
      Julius ran a 4.38 and a 4.43 at the combine.
      Thank you, D.
      Julius runs a freakin 4.47. I posted a true link from NFL.com, you didn't, so too bad.

      Julius runs a 4.47, and he is slow. He need a gamebreaker.

      End of story, you lose I win.

      Julius in the 4.3's, man thats funny.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Staubach12
        Originally posted by TNewFan41
        And D-Unit Julius runs a 4.47. And I don't care what his 40 time is, he is slow as heck on the field, I don't care about that run against the Saints, wow one big run all season. Ramonce has a gear that only certaihn players have, like Reggie Bush and Brian westrook. Plus we could get ramonce in the later part of day 2! who cares it would either be a 5th, 6th, or 7th round pick, if not undrafted FA. I don't know why you guys care so much. We need a back like him, and ramonce would be perfect. I hope we draft him really bad.
        You can't use a 40 time as an argument, and then say "Oh, well, I don't care about that anyway." You abviously don't watch very closely, because he's one of the fastest players on our team. Taylor won't be much faster than Jones.
        If Julius is one of the fastest players on our team, then we are a SLOW team.

        Newman is faster, Terry Glenn is faster, T.O. is faster, I think D-Ware and Kevin Burnett are also both faster, so is pat watkins, just too name a few.

        And I am not going by 40 times, I am going by game speed, and Ramonce has both by a good amount on Julius. And so do most of the players above.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Paul
          Originally posted by D-Unit
          Originally posted by Paul
          So are you saying Fergies play was inconsistent this past season? He was probably our best Defensive player next to Dware, he was truly a beast against the run. Why is he so unappreciated around here?
          He was a beast against the run because he wasn't doing his job. He's supposed to be occupying the blockers and allowing the LBs to stuff the run... That's how the 3-4 is supposed to work. Instead he's shooting the gaps himself and stopping the run. Like I said.. He's not a true NT and in fact plays more like a 3 technique tackle.
          So your gonna criticize him for disrupting the run and making play in the backfield?

          And I have to say our run defense was not the problem for us, it was the pass. How will Tyler aide that?
          Who said anything about Fergy making plays in the backfield? lol! I don't think he had many TFLs... For sure he had 0 sacks.

          Secondly, his primary job is not to stuff the run. His job is to occupy the blockers to allow the LBs to stuff the run. If he played with that type of discipline, then our defense would be more consistent. I know it sounds twisted, but that's the role of a 3-4 NT. He needs to draw the double-team to allow the linebackers to plug the holes and make the play. Plain and simple. Drawing the double opens up the rest of the defense. Only then will we be able to be aggressive on defense. Only then, will our LB blitzes begin to work. When was the last time we've seen an ILB get a sack? The strength of the 3-4 is to disguise the blitz to where the offense has no clue where it's coming from. It will only start to work when the NT understands his role, plays with discipline, and COMMANDS a double team... instead of trying to make the plays himself. He's screwing the rest of the defense up. Bottom line, Fergy does not command a double team and that's why we are forced to play a vanilla defense. He's not opening up that extra blocker and our other front 7 players are forced to handle a larger load.

          That's how I believe Tyler will help. If he can consistently command the double team and make teams pay when they don't double him, then THAT'S when we'll start to see the true benefits of running the 3-4. Tyler has already shown that he can make those around him better. ...and that's how we'll generate a better pass rush and that's when we'll start seeing more game breaking plays. When he attracts the double team, then the rest of the front 7 will be that more dangerous... we'll be able to mix it up, it'll open up our blitz packages, it'll free up the rest of the front 7 in their pass rush attack and allow the LBs to do their job in stuffing the run without having to go through blockers.

          Right now, Fergy is not commanding the double and is making it tough on our LBs because they are having to face big O-Linemen before getting to the carrier... occupying those linemen are supposed to be the assignment of the NT, not the LBs. Our run D might appear to be doing well, with Fergy helping to tackle, but it's fundamentally unsound in the 3-4 and it's jamming everything up causing a lot of our inconsistencies. When Fergy is not stuffing the run and not drawing the double... we simply fall apart.

          I honestly think that we do have playmakers on our team. We don't need to find some. Finding a new OLB may help slightly, but if they are faced with the same problem that our guys are facing now, it's all moot. We just need to find a NT that will eat up blockers and allow our playmakers to make plays.

          With the lack of NT prospects in this draft and in FA, it's imperative that we draft Tyler, even if he's not the BPA.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by D-Unit
            Originally posted by Paul
            Originally posted by D-Unit
            Originally posted by Paul
            So are you saying Fergies play was inconsistent this past season? He was probably our best Defensive player next to Dware, he was truly a beast against the run. Why is he so unappreciated around here?
            He was a beast against the run because he wasn't doing his job. He's supposed to be occupying the blockers and allowing the LBs to stuff the run... That's how the 3-4 is supposed to work. Instead he's shooting the gaps himself and stopping the run. Like I said.. He's not a true NT and in fact plays more like a 3 technique tackle.
            So your gonna criticize him for disrupting the run and making play in the backfield?

            And I have to say our run defense was not the problem for us, it was the pass. How will Tyler aide that?
            Who said anything about Fergy making plays in the backfield? lol! I don't think he had many TFLs... For sure he had 0 sacks.

            Secondly, his primary job is not to stuff the run. His job is to occupy the blockers to allow the LBs to stuff the run. If he played with that type of discipline, then our defense would be more consistent. I know it sounds twisted, but that's the role of a 3-4 NT. He needs to draw the double-team to allow the linebackers to plug the holes and make the play. Plain and simple. Drawing the double opens up the rest of the defense. Only then will we be able to be aggressive on defense. Only then, will our LB blitzes begin to work. When was the last time we've seen an ILB get a sack? The strength of the 3-4 is to disguise the blitz to where the offense has no clue where it's coming from. It will only start to work when the NT understands his role, plays with discipline, and COMMANDS a double team... instead of trying to make the plays himself. He's screwing the rest of the defense up. Bottom line, Fergy does not command a double team and that's why we are forced to play a vanilla defense. He's not opening up that extra blocker and our other front 7 players are forced to handle a larger load.

            That's how I believe Tyler will help. If he can consistently command the double team and make teams pay when they don't double him, then THAT'S when we'll start to see the true benefits of running the 3-4. Tyler has already shown that he can make those around him better. ...and that's how we'll generate a better pass rush and that's when we'll start seeing more game breaking plays. When he attracts the double team, then the rest of the front 7 will be that more dangerous... we'll be able to mix it up, it'll open up our blitz packages, it'll free up the rest of the front 7 in their pass rush attack and allow the LBs to do their job in stuffing the run without having to go through blockers.

            Right now, Fergy is not commanding the double and is making it tough on our LBs because they are having to face big O-Linemen before getting to the carrier... occupying those linemen are supposed to be the assignment of the NT, not the LBs. Our run D might appear to be doing well, with Fergy helping to tackle, but it's fundamentally unsound in the 3-4 and it's jamming everything up causing a lot of our inconsistencies. When Fergy is not stuffing the run and not drawing the double... we simply fall apart.

            I honestly think that we do have playmakers on our team. We don't need to find some. Finding a new OLB may help slightly, but if they are faced with the same problem that our guys are facing now, it's all moot. We just need to find a NT that will eat up blockers and allow our playmakers to make plays.

            With the lack of NT prospects in this draft and in FA, it's imperative that we draft Tyler, even if he's not the BPA.
            D-Unit, youre looking at it wrong.

            Im personally not a big believer in Tyler, I think teams are trying to make him into something he's not, ie an answer at 3-4 NT. There simply aren't any in this draft, Tyler won't be that special in the NFL.

            More importantly, Ferguson. He was great for you guys this year. You guys had a very good run defense, and he was largely responsible for it.

            To make it short, while the 3-4 NT's job is to occupy blockers, they can also disrupt plays in the backfield. Jamal Williams and Wilfortk and Hampton do it all the time. They simply explode the interior line and destroy whatever interior blocking was there, and then the guys behind them make a play. When Ferguson is getting in the backfield, thats a good thing, he's disrupting the play at the point of attack. You want that.

            I wish I could show film to explain it in greater detail, but I hope I made sense out of that.

            If he's getting off blockers and trying to get in the backfield like a UT, then thats wrong, but I never see him do that. When I saw him get in the backfield, it was because he was overpowering the interior line and breaking down their blocking inside. If you can destroy the center and get in the backfield, thats a good thing.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by bigbluedefense
              D-Unit, youre looking at it wrong.

              Im personally not a big believer in Tyler, I think teams are trying to make him into something he's not, ie an answer at 3-4 NT. There simply aren't any in this draft, Tyler won't be that special in the NFL.

              More importantly, Ferguson. He was great for you guys this year. You guys had a very good run defense, and he was largely responsible for it.

              To make it short, while the 3-4 NT's job is to occupy blockers, they can also disrupt plays in the backfield. Jamal Williams and Wilfortk and Hampton do it all the time. They simply explode the interior line and destroy whatever interior blocking was there, and then the guys behind them make a play. When Ferguson is getting in the backfield, thats a good thing, he's disrupting the play at the point of attack. You want that.

              I wish I could show film to explain it in greater detail, but I hope I made sense out of that.

              If he's getting off blockers and trying to get in the backfield like a UT, then thats wrong, but I never see him do that. When I saw him get in the backfield, it was because he was overpowering the interior line and breaking down their blocking inside. If you can destroy the center and get in the backfield, thats a good thing.
              Well, I'm not going to try and predict that Tyler will not be good in the NFL. That's kind of bold on your part, imo. But that's ok.

              Back to our problem (in my eyes).... Admittingly, I don't have game film to review, but I watch the game and as good as the TV angles permit, and try to watch things unfold. I understand and agree with what you say when you said "3-4 NT's job is to occupy blockers, they can also disrupt plays in the backfield"... My question is, do the rest of you agree that Fergy actually does that? If so, I'm missing it and I'm wrong. I don't think he forces his way in the backfield... and I definately would not describe his game as someone who can "simply explode the interior line and destroy whatever interior blocking was there"... I definately do not see Fergy doing that. Instead, I see him filling the gap and not penetrating it and not trying to take on an extra blocker...

              And what you said here, "If he's getting off blockers and trying to get in the backfield like a UT, then thats wrong..."

              ...imo that is the definition of Fergy.... like I said earlier... I believe he plays like a 1 gap tackle and not a true 1 technique NT.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by D-Unit
                Originally posted by bigbluedefense
                D-Unit, youre looking at it wrong.

                Im personally not a big believer in Tyler, I think teams are trying to make him into something he's not, ie an answer at 3-4 NT. There simply aren't any in this draft, Tyler won't be that special in the NFL.

                More importantly, Ferguson. He was great for you guys this year. You guys had a very good run defense, and he was largely responsible for it.

                To make it short, while the 3-4 NT's job is to occupy blockers, they can also disrupt plays in the backfield. Jamal Williams and Wilfortk and Hampton do it all the time. They simply explode the interior line and destroy whatever interior blocking was there, and then the guys behind them make a play. When Ferguson is getting in the backfield, thats a good thing, he's disrupting the play at the point of attack. You want that.

                I wish I could show film to explain it in greater detail, but I hope I made sense out of that.

                If he's getting off blockers and trying to get in the backfield like a UT, then thats wrong, but I never see him do that. When I saw him get in the backfield, it was because he was overpowering the interior line and breaking down their blocking inside. If you can destroy the center and get in the backfield, thats a good thing.
                Well, I'm not going to try and predict that Tyler will not be good in the NFL. That's kind of bold on your part, imo. But that's ok.

                Back to our problem (in my eyes).... Admittingly, I don't have game film to review, but I watch the game and as good as the TV angles permit, and try to watch things unfold. I understand and agree with what you say when you said "3-4 NT's job is to occupy blockers, they can also disrupt plays in the backfield"... My question is, do the rest of you agree that Fergy actually does that? If so, I'm missing it and I'm wrong. I don't think he forces his way in the backfield... and I definately would not describe his game as someone who can "simply explode the interior line and destroy whatever interior blocking was there"... I definately do not see Fergy doing that. Instead, I see him filling the gap and not penetrating it and not trying to take on an extra blocker...

                And what you said here, "If he's getting off blockers and trying to get in the backfield like a UT, then thats wrong..."

                ...imo that is the definition of Fergy.... like I said earlier... I believe he plays like a 1 gap tackle and not a true 1 technique NT.
                Youve probably payed more attention to it than I have, so I'll take your word for it. From the time Ive seen him, yes, he doesn't explode the interior that much, but he has done a serviceable job in the run game.

                I think his biggest weakness is in the pass game. Too many times the ILBs didn't come unblocked on passing downs, and that could very well be because of what you said, him not occupying the line instead trying to get in the backfield.

                If he does that during ILB blitzes, than youre exactly right, he's not doing what he's supposed to. From what I saw, he's simply not getting blocked by 2 guys too often on passing downs, which is why the ILBs don't come unblocked.

                I don't know, I can't say for certain because I havent paid detailed attention to him. I was always focused on Ware for the most part.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TNewFan41
                  Originally posted by Staubach12
                  Originally posted by D-Unit
                  Julius ran a 4.38 and a 4.43 at the combine.
                  Thank you, D.
                  Julius runs a freakin 4.47. I posted a true link from NFL.com, you didn't, so too bad.

                  Julius runs a 4.47, and he is slow. He need a gamebreaker.

                  End of story, you lose I win.

                  Julius in the 4.3's, man thats funny.
                  I think Julius haunted TNewFan's past or something.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by bigbluedefense
                    Youve probably payed more attention to it than I have, so I'll take your word for it. From the time Ive seen him, yes, he doesn't explode the interior that much, but he has done a serviceable job in the run game.

                    I think his biggest weakness is in the pass game. Too many times the ILBs didn't come unblocked on passing downs, and that could very well be because of what you said, him not occupying the line instead trying to get in the backfield.

                    If he does that during ILB blitzes, than youre exactly right, he's not doing what he's supposed to. From what I saw, he's simply not getting blocked by 2 guys too often on passing downs, which is why the ILBs don't come unblocked.

                    I don't know, I can't say for certain because I havent paid detailed attention to him. I was always focused on Ware for the most part.
                    I agree that for the most part that Fergy is serviceable at run support. However, like I said, I don't think he should be trying to do that as much as he should be trying to occupy blockers and letting the LBs to the work.

                    It's fundamentally unsound. When he fills the gap and stops the runner, hey, everything is fine and dandy... but when he tries to fill the gap and doesn't get to the runner... uhhhhhh... that RB is already making his read on the safties! ...that RB is in our secondary faster than you can say, "What duh?!"... the blockers that he was supposed to get are now blocking the LBs and the RB has picked up big yardage. Thus, another explanation of a part of our defensive inconsistencies.

                    You mention his weakness being in the passing game... Yeah... you could say our pass rush attack is a general weakness of the whole team. ...and it starts with Big Ferg. If he doesn't draw the double... it makes it hard for everyone else... just like you said... the ILBs don't get free. ...and additionally, neither do the DEs or OLBs... His position is so important for him to do it right. He doesn't need to be the playmaker, tackling every thing in sight. He just needs to make it easy for everyone else by drawing 2 blockers.... Something Tyler has become accustomed to... making life easy for Mario Williams, Manny Lawson and John McCargo along that vaunted NC State line... and everyone else on that front 7 for that matter.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by bigmac076
                      Originally posted by TNewFan41
                      Originally posted by Staubach12
                      Originally posted by D-Unit
                      Julius ran a 4.38 and a 4.43 at the combine.
                      Thank you, D.
                      Julius runs a freakin 4.47. I posted a true link from NFL.com, you didn't, so too bad.

                      Julius runs a 4.47, and he is slow. He need a gamebreaker.

                      End of story, you lose I win.

                      Julius in the 4.3's, man thats funny.
                      I think Julius haunted TNewFan's past or something.
                      No, Julius is just slow, and I personally don't like him. he goes down by arm tackels, and plays like a pu***, and he doesn't have the gamebreaking speed to make up for it. Ramonce does, and he can also break tackles. Look, Ramonce will be avaliabe on the late second day! why are you so apposed to drafting him. He will be a good back in the NFL, mark it down.

                      And D-Unit the only 2 players I want in the first round are either Tank Tyler or Levi Brown, so I agree with you.

                      My dream FA and Draft, but also achievable would be:

                      Sign a OG like Dielman or Steinbach in FA.

                      Draft: Day 1 get a future LT (Levi Brown), a future RG (Manuel Ramirez), and a future NT or WR (Tank tyler, i think he can be there in the 2nd, or Jason Hill). Day 2, Ramone Taylor.

                      I think that would be good for this team, and it is attainable.

                      Oh and Texas Vs. The Nation is on tonight, and I don't have CSTV, so please tell me how Ramonce does.

                      Comment


                      • I'll be ok with Ramonce on day 2, but I think it's a dream for you Balaskonis. I don't even see it as a possibilty. Julius goes down because he is at his best when he is gliding... but he's a lot more compact than Ramonce...and can still hit the hole. Ramonce is like Lorenzo Booker, imo.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by TNewFan41
                          Originally posted by bigmac076
                          Originally posted by TNewFan41
                          Originally posted by Staubach12
                          Originally posted by D-Unit
                          Julius ran a 4.38 and a 4.43 at the combine.
                          Thank you, D.
                          Julius runs a freakin 4.47. I posted a true link from NFL.com, you didn't, so too bad.

                          Julius runs a 4.47, and he is slow. He need a gamebreaker.

                          End of story, you lose I win.

                          Julius in the 4.3's, man thats funny.
                          I think Julius haunted TNewFan's past or something.
                          No, Julius is just slow, and I personally don't like him. he goes down by arm tackels, and plays like a pu***, and he doesn't have the gamebreaking speed to make up for it. Ramonce does, and he can also break tackles. Look, Ramonce will be avaliabe on the late second day! why are you so apposed to drafting him. He will be a good back in the NFL, mark it down.

                          And D-Unit the only 2 players I want in the first round are either Tank Tyler or Levi Brown, so I agree with you.

                          My dream FA and Draft, but also achievable would be:

                          Sign a OG like Dielman or Steinbach in FA.

                          Draft: Day 1 get a future LT (Levi Brown), a future RG (Manuel Ramirez), and a future NT or WR (Tank tyler, i think he can be there in the 2nd, or Jason Hill). Day 2, Ramone Taylor.

                          I think that would be good for this team, and it is attainable.

                          Oh and Texas Vs. The Nation is on tonight, and I don't have CSTV, so please tell me how Ramonce does.
                          I lose you win? Ha! You need to get a clue. You abviously don't know what you're talking about. One of the only reasons Barber isn't starting over Jones is because JONES HAS GAMEBREAKING SPEED! No one is taking you seriously because all you do is come in here and post this:

                          "ROMANCE TAYLOR IS AWESOME!!!1!1111!!! JULIUS JONES IS SLOW!!11!!11!1!!111!!!!!!! I WIN!!!111!1!!!1!!!!"

                          Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about.

                          BoneKrusher

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TNewFan41
                            Originally posted by Staubach12
                            Originally posted by TNewFan41
                            And D-Unit Julius runs a 4.47. And I don't care what his 40 time is, he is slow as heck on the field, I don't care about that run against the Saints, wow one big run all season. Ramonce has a gear that only certaihn players have, like Reggie Bush and Brian westrook. Plus we could get ramonce in the later part of day 2! who cares it would either be a 5th, 6th, or 7th round pick, if not undrafted FA. I don't know why you guys care so much. We need a back like him, and ramonce would be perfect. I hope we draft him really bad.
                            You can't use a 40 time as an argument, and then say "Oh, well, I don't care about that anyway." You abviously don't watch very closely, because he's one of the fastest players on our team. Taylor won't be much faster than Jones.
                            If Julius is one of the fastest players on our team, then we are a SLOW team.

                            Newman is faster, Terry Glenn is faster, T.O. is faster, I think D-Ware and Kevin Burnett are also both faster, so is pat watkins, just too name a few.

                            And I am not going by 40 times, I am going by game speed, and Ramonce has both by a good amount on Julius. And so do most of the players above.
                            BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! D-Ware is faster than JJ!?!?!?! Don't get me wrong, he's fast for a LB, but faster than JJ?!?!?! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! You've got to be kidding! Burnett!?!?!?!?! This has to be a joke. Please tell me you're kidding.

                            BoneKrusher

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TNewFan41
                              Originally posted by bigmac076
                              Originally posted by TNewFan41
                              Originally posted by Staubach12
                              Originally posted by D-Unit
                              Julius ran a 4.38 and a 4.43 at the combine.
                              Thank you, D.
                              Julius runs a freakin 4.47. I posted a true link from NFL.com, you didn't, so too bad.

                              Julius runs a 4.47, and he is slow. He need a gamebreaker.

                              End of story, you lose I win.

                              Julius in the 4.3's, man thats funny.
                              I think Julius haunted TNewFan's past or something.
                              No, Julius is just slow, and I personally don't like him. he goes down by arm tackels, and plays like a pu***, and he doesn't have the gamebreaking speed to make up for it. Ramonce does, and he can also break tackles. Look, Ramonce will be avaliabe on the late second day! why are you so apposed to drafting him. He will be a good back in the NFL, mark it down.

                              And D-Unit the only 2 players I want in the first round are either Tank Tyler or Levi Brown, so I agree with you.

                              My dream FA and Draft, but also achievable would be:

                              Sign a OG like Dielman or Steinbach in FA.

                              Draft: Day 1 get a future LT (Levi Brown), a future RG (Manuel Ramirez), and a future NT or WR (Tank tyler, i think he can be there in the 2nd, or Jason Hill). Day 2, Ramone Taylor.

                              I think that would be good for this team, and it is attainable.

                              Oh and Texas Vs. The Nation is on tonight, and I don't have CSTV, so please tell me how Ramonce does.
                              If Ramonce really is as good as you say he is, and his only problem was his arrest, then some team (like the Bengals) will take a flyer on him far before late 2nd day. I'm pretty sure that pro scouts can recognize that kind of talent just as well as you can, and if he is that talented, he will be gone.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TNewFan41
                                Originally posted by bigmac076
                                Originally posted by TNewFan41
                                Originally posted by Staubach12
                                Originally posted by D-Unit
                                Julius ran a 4.38 and a 4.43 at the combine.
                                Thank you, D.
                                Julius runs a freakin 4.47. I posted a true link from NFL.com, you didn't, so too bad.

                                Julius runs a 4.47, and he is slow. He need a gamebreaker.

                                End of story, you lose I win.

                                Julius in the 4.3's, man thats funny.
                                I think Julius haunted TNewFan's past or something.
                                No, Julius is just slow, and I personally don't like him. he goes down by arm tackels, and plays like a pu***, and he doesn't have the gamebreaking speed to make up for it. Ramonce does, and he can also break tackles. Look, Ramonce will be avaliabe on the late second day! why are you so apposed to drafting him. He will be a good back in the NFL, mark it down.
                                Really? What did he do to you? :roll:

                                Look, if we do or don't draft Taylor still remains to be seen, but you need to get off this "I'm right and all you are wrong" horse your riding on. The more defensive you get in your post, the more people see you as annoying and immature. Just ask a certain poster, who will remain nameless, who rubbed people the wrong on here with his annoying stubbornness, and ended up being outcasted and leaving the team discussions(for now). But even doing so, he was at least coherent in his arguments, and provided detail and evidence. While you just blurt out crap like "He's fast" and "He will be GREAT. Mark it down", without any kind of textual or statistical evidence. You have much to learn grasshopper.

                                Comment

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