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  • Originally posted by dpl85
    Originally posted by bigbluedefense
    Originally posted by dpl85
    BBD, I'm not going to run around in circles again with this but if you have the time or motivation you should go to dallascowboys.com and check out the archived Parcells press conferences. Parcells recently talked extensively about Ware. The gist of it was that all of us fans and the media are looking for a big pressure catalytic pass rusher while he's looking for a complete LB that can also rush the passer effectively when called upon.
    I understand that, and I know that the responsibilities of the 2 are somewhat different, but you have to admit, DWare's pass rushing has been disappointing. He had Whitfield on him all day, and didn't do anything.

    Granted, Eli did a great job evading pressure, but still, this is the same Bob Whitfield that was thoroughly embarrassed by Brown and Spicer 2 weeks in a row. He shouldve done more.

    My biggest knock on his pass rushing is his lack of moves, and his motor. He just doesn't have that fire you look for in a pass rusher. But you don't need fire to succeed, but you definately need moves. Pass rushing is a chess match, you can't just try to outmuscle/speed the other guy every play. You gotta set them up. Pick your spots. Play with their mind, have them guessing. Right now Ware is a 2 trick poney. He needs to improve his moves.
    I wasn't paying that much attention to it but weren't yall giving Whitfield help at least 40 or 50% of the time? If not then I agree with you in that that was a dissapointing performance at least in terms of pass rushing. However, I think you are underestimating the effect that the loss of Greg Ellis has had on our entire D and Ware in particular. Before teams had to account for both Ware and Ellis and couldn't really give their OTs too much help for fear of giving either Ware or Ellis a one on one matchup. With Ellis gone Ware is our only good pressure player and teams can afford to double him on practically every play because Carpenter or Singleton won't make them pay from the other side. I don't want to even hear about Merriman because as far as I'm concerned he's a cheater until proven otherwise and also they play vastly different roles on their defenses. From what I can tell Merriman blitzes a hell of a lot more often than we blitz Ware. That's a philosophical difference in our defense, we're more conservative.
    It was more like 30% from what I noticed. Whitfield pretty much took him one by himself most of the time. This has been a critique of mine for the Giants the past 3 weeks because we tend to leave him to fend for himself. Lucky for us, he did a great job against Ware.

    Im starting to think that Ware would be better suited to be a SAM rushbacker. He has the coverage skills, and he's a great run stuffer.

    Right now, I haven't seen the pass rushing skills that you would like to see out of a weakside rushbacker. Its primarily because of his lack of pass rush moves really, I just don't understand why he does not mix it up more.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by bigbluedefense
      Originally posted by dpl85
      Originally posted by bigbluedefense
      Originally posted by dpl85
      BBD, I'm not going to run around in circles again with this but if you have the time or motivation you should go to dallascowboys.com and check out the archived Parcells press conferences. Parcells recently talked extensively about Ware. The gist of it was that all of us fans and the media are looking for a big pressure catalytic pass rusher while he's looking for a complete LB that can also rush the passer effectively when called upon.
      I understand that, and I know that the responsibilities of the 2 are somewhat different, but you have to admit, DWare's pass rushing has been disappointing. He had Whitfield on him all day, and didn't do anything.

      Granted, Eli did a great job evading pressure, but still, this is the same Bob Whitfield that was thoroughly embarrassed by Brown and Spicer 2 weeks in a row. He shouldve done more.

      My biggest knock on his pass rushing is his lack of moves, and his motor. He just doesn't have that fire you look for in a pass rusher. But you don't need fire to succeed, but you definately need moves. Pass rushing is a chess match, you can't just try to outmuscle/speed the other guy every play. You gotta set them up. Pick your spots. Play with their mind, have them guessing. Right now Ware is a 2 trick poney. He needs to improve his moves.
      I wasn't paying that much attention to it but weren't yall giving Whitfield help at least 40 or 50% of the time? If not then I agree with you in that that was a dissapointing performance at least in terms of pass rushing. However, I think you are underestimating the effect that the loss of Greg Ellis has had on our entire D and Ware in particular. Before teams had to account for both Ware and Ellis and couldn't really give their OTs too much help for fear of giving either Ware or Ellis a one on one matchup. With Ellis gone Ware is our only good pressure player and teams can afford to double him on practically every play because Carpenter or Singleton won't make them pay from the other side. I don't want to even hear about Merriman because as far as I'm concerned he's a cheater until proven otherwise and also they play vastly different roles on their defenses. From what I can tell Merriman blitzes a hell of a lot more often than we blitz Ware. That's a philosophical difference in our defense, we're more conservative.
      It was more like 30% from what I noticed. Whitfield pretty much took him one by himself most of the time. This has been a critique of mine for the Giants the past 3 weeks because we tend to leave him to fend for himself. Lucky for us, he did a great job against Ware.

      Im starting to think that Ware would be better suited to be a SAM rushbacker. He has the coverage skills, and he's a great run stuffer.

      Right now, I haven't seen the pass rushing skills that you would like to see out of a weakside rushbacker. Its primarily because of his lack of pass rush moves really, I just don't understand why he does not mix it up more.
      I wouldn't really disagree with that but you have to remember and consider that this is only Ware's second year in the L and second year in the transformation from small school DE to NFL 3-4 OLB. Parcells has said before it takes 3 years to really make that transition successfully. We can't move Ware to the strong side until we have someone to replace him on the weak side effectively and we don't have that player on our roster currently.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jughead10
        Originally posted by Poet3334
        Originally posted by sweetness34
        Originally posted by Poet3334
        Originally posted by sweetness34
        Originally posted by Go Cowboys
        Originally posted by CTCowboysFan
        Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
        Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
        If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
        I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
        Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

        It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
        What bone-headed plays?
        I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
        But is wasn't. You can't talk about things that weren't. They didn't happen. It's not a bone-headed play if it worked.


        "You know what charm is: a way of getting the answer yes without having asked any clear question."
        Albert Camus

        Comment


        • Ware played well last night. While he didn't provide the pressure I would have liked (he was chipped quite often by the way) his all around game is outstanding. I don't have any complaints. I would rather he be outstanding in coverage and the run game first. He can and will develop more moves to rush the passer. I don't doubt that at all. The Merriman debate is tired and pointless. Let it go. Good post BBD.


          "You know what charm is: a way of getting the answer yes without having asked any clear question."
          Albert Camus

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Poet3334
            Originally posted by Jughead10
            Originally posted by Poet3334
            Originally posted by sweetness34
            Originally posted by Poet3334
            Originally posted by sweetness34
            Originally posted by Go Cowboys
            Originally posted by CTCowboysFan
            Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
            Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
            If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
            I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
            Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

            It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
            What bone-headed plays?
            I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
            But is wasn't. You can't talk about things that weren't. They didn't happen. It's not a bone-headed play if it worked.
            Please. It wasn't a good/smart throw. It was a bad throw that he got lucky on. I know everyone is on the Romo wagon but it wasn't a good throw just like Eli's throw wasn't good that Glenn almost picked off.

            Comment


            • Yeah, I don't want my evaluation to be misinterpreted as a Ware/Merriman debate, that was just one bulletin on the list.

              I just got off the phone with my buddy Sal. Sal is a diehard Giants fan, and he is planning on being a football analyst after his internship. He just watched the bomb pass to Witten again with a minute left and called me up to let me know what exactly transpired.

              I didn't notice it immediately, and I fault myself for that, but this play right here is indicative of what we've been having to deal with over in Giants land.

              Ok, Dallas came out in an empty set, and the Giants came out in a 3 downlinemen front. All indications were his typical prevent zone he likes doing. When I first saw the play, I thought it was just that, but it wasn't.

              Against a 5 WR set, Tim Lewis drew up Cover 2!!!! It might not sound absurd superficially, but anyone who's played this game before knows that Cover 2 against a 5 WR set is suicide. You have 2 safeties defending 5 WRs deep. That is beyond dumb. If you send 3 deep, one is wide open.

              And in fact, if you look at the replay, you'll see that not only was Witten open, but he had TO open for a TD as well. Basically because we had 2 safeties playing deep, and everyone else underneath. Pierce played a deep middle zone and tried to recover, but he had no chance. That play was a recipe for disaster.

              Sigh...yup, Tim Lewis strikes again.

              Comment


              • Then Demps is even a bigger idiot if that play was Cover 2. Because he cheated up and let Witten get behind him as well.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jughead10
                  Originally posted by Poet3334
                  Originally posted by Jughead10
                  Originally posted by Poet3334
                  Originally posted by sweetness34
                  Originally posted by Poet3334
                  Originally posted by sweetness34
                  Originally posted by Go Cowboys
                  Originally posted by CTCowboysFan
                  Yeah I think the Saints/Cowboys matchup will be a higher scoring game. If we can shut down Brees/Bush it's over.
                  Don't overlook Mcalister though he has gotten a few teams because of that this year.
                  If Colston plays you better not over look him either, or Horn.
                  I don't think Dallas will overlook anyone.
                  Btw the way you guys are talking on here, I think they might. We've overlooked a couple teams this season (Arizona and Miami to be exact).

                  It is a prime time game though which will be a little different but I wouldn't be surprised to see New Orleans win this game. Romo made some great plays today but he also made some bone head ones, one in which that almost went for a pick 6. Should be a great game.
                  What bone-headed plays?
                  I think he is referring to the ball Romo threw right at Wilson that went right between his hands. That easily could have been 6 points like he said.
                  But is wasn't. You can't talk about things that weren't. They didn't happen. It's not a bone-headed play if it worked.
                  Please. It wasn't a good/smart throw. It was a bad throw that he got lucky on. I know everyone is on the Romo wagon but it wasn't a good throw just like Eli's throw wasn't good that Glenn almost picked off.
                  So what? I didn't say it was a good throw did I? No. Did it harm the Cowboys in the game? No. End of story


                  "You know what charm is: a way of getting the answer yes without having asked any clear question."
                  Albert Camus

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by bigbluedefense
                    Yeah, I don't want my evaluation to be misinterpreted as a Ware/Merriman debate, that was just one bulletin on the list.

                    I just got off the phone with my buddy Sal. Sal is a diehard Giants fan, and he is planning on being a football analyst after his internship. He just watched the bomb pass to Witten again with a minute left and called me up to let me know what exactly transpired.

                    I didn't notice it immediately, and I fault myself for that, but this play right here is indicative of what we've been having to deal with over in Giants land.

                    Ok, Dallas came out in an empty set, and the Giants came out in a 3 downlinemen front. All indications were his typical prevent zone he likes doing. When I first saw the play, I thought it was just that, but it wasn't.

                    Against a 5 WR set, Tim Lewis drew up Cover 2!!!! It might not sound absurd superficially, but anyone who's played this game before knows that Cover 2 against a 5 WR set is suicide. You have 2 safeties defending 5 WRs deep. That is beyond dumb. If you send 3 deep, one is wide open.

                    And in fact, if you look at the replay, you'll see that not only was Witten open, but he had TO open for a TD as well. Basically because we had 2 safeties playing deep, and everyone else underneath. Pierce played a deep middle zone and tried to recover, but he had no chance. That play was a recipe for disaster.

                    Sigh...yup, Tim Lewis strikes again.

                    You're right, TO was open.


                    "You know what charm is: a way of getting the answer yes without having asked any clear question."
                    Albert Camus

                    Comment


                    • Hey, while we're rehashing the game I think Hatcher deserves some props. When he got head-butted by McKenzie (I think), he was smart enough to put up his hands and not retaliate so that he didn't draw an offsetting foul. That was a heads up move by a rookie.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by FinChase
                        Hey, while we're rehashing the game I think Hatcher deserves some props. When he got head-butted by McKenzie (I think), he was smart enough to put up his hands and not retaliate so that he didn't draw an offsetting foul. That was a heads up move by a rookie.
                        Good call.


                        "You know what charm is: a way of getting the answer yes without having asked any clear question."
                        Albert Camus

                        Comment


                        • Anthony Henry has been getting burnt all year. I think there is real reason for concern.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by D-Unit
                            Anthony Henry has been getting burnt all year. I think there is real reason for concern.
                            You know, he didn't even turn his damn head around on that Burress Touchdown. Just complete faceguarding. It was ridiculous.


                            "You know what charm is: a way of getting the answer yes without having asked any clear question."
                            Albert Camus

                            Comment


                            • Parcells was highly critical of our DE's especially Spears in his press conference today. If we're going to be hatin on somebody it shoud be Spears. Parcells said a change to the starting lineup is possible, hopefully it would be Ratliff.

                              Comment


                              • i think spears is doing just fine... he plays in a 3-4, hes not going to provide that much pressure. hes in there to take away the run and ive seen him come up big on multiple occasions this year. I like how we use a rotation but i think the starters should stay as they are.

                                Henry regressed yesterday, i thought after he had a good game against the colts and then showed up in the game after that, we wouldnt have any more problems, but that was pretty bad play by him on the TD.. The endzone is so short and he saw plax was going for the corner, i would think it would be natural for him to turn around and gaurd the jump ball instead of face gaurding? oh well.

                                Comment

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