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  • Originally posted by Modano View Post
    I disagree with you here... Julius had an average/mediocre game to start the season then he had 260 yards against San Francisco (which was worse under Nolan) and St Louis (which easily the worst team in football the first weeks of the season). So his "very good season" lasted just 2 games against 2 awful teams.
    Well, Julius has actually been putting together a fine season even in a platoon...the guy should be starting and getting 20 odd carriers per game. Yes, his two best games came against bad defenses but, those are also the only two games that he had 20+ carries in. Holmgren doesnt like him, not as a player but, as a person. They've been butting heads since week 4. As for Julius running like a robot and going down easy in Seattle...it hasnt been that way at all, he has actually looked consistantly good all year. He is averaging a good 4.4 per behind a horrible patch work line.

    I just want to add...I honestly have no idea why most cowboy fans hate Julius these days. He even got booed at the game...he fell out of favor here, true. It happens but, there is no real reason for most cowboy fans to hate him and boo him every time he touches the football. I dont get it. I'm the type that actually wants to see these guys succeed if they go elsewhere and he hasnt played bad at all this season.
    Last edited by M.O.T.H.; 12-03-2008, 08:08 PM.

    Thanks BoneKrusher^

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    • So you agree that he is an every down back, but you don't think he's best used as a full time back. That's fair. I don't think the Cowboys ever planned on using him that way, thus the additions of Felix and Tashard, so I don't think there's a legit worry behind him being used that way in the long term.

      What you're seeing now is Choice not getting the carries that Felix got. ...and you're probably frustrated because of it. Here's my theory behind it. Felix was drafted as a change of pace back. Choice was drafted as a replacement for Barber (in case of injury) and NOT as a change of pace back. Therefore, Choice isn't being used in the same game plan attack that was designed for Felix and thus has not gotten those carries. So naturally, so long as Barber was healthy, he would be the one who's # would be called on most running plays. Choice would only come into to spell him some rest. That is my thoughts on the subject. If Choice was a speed back, I do believe there would've been more of a committee approach to our running attack. I do believe that is/was the plan for Barber in the long run.

      With Felix out, Barber has been forced to carry a bigger load and I don't think he has failed in that aspect even though his stats might show it. Do those stats show the effect of having Brad Johnson as your QB versus Romo? Let's see those stats. Having BJ back there surely must also have a negative effect on Barber's stats considering the lack of a passing game.

      ...and AD and Portis are not pass catching backs. If you simply stack them up like that, you don't see Barber's contributions in his receiving yardage. Your stat analysis still shows only part of the picture.

      Bottom line, the long term plan for Barber is not to be used as a full time back like Emmitt Smith was. That's old school football. I believe the NFL game has changed and more and more you will see teams adopting the concept of RBBC.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
        This is a good thing and a bad thing. He has proven to be a great receiver but, this reflects very poorly on QB play this year. If you guys remember when Tony was playing all depressed like earlier in the year, he would get into the habit of checking down to Marion a lot and then of course we had Brad who pretty much only threw the ball to Marion. In our offense...Marion probably shouldnt have that many receptions. Yeah, he'll get his but, it's a little much this year and again that falls on bad QB play early on and the useless Brad Johnson. Luckily, Tony is back to playing like the Tony Romo we've all come to know and love.
        I don't have the numbers, but keeping Barber in the passing game is apart of our offense no matter who the QB is. I mean Barber's receiving numbers have been higher than the norm for most other backs much longer than just this season. Am I wrong?

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        • Marion's stats w/ Brad or Romo arent all that different really. It's hard to really break them down also because, two of those games came against the Giants and Bucs. He's had high highs and low lows this year. Three really good 100+ yard games but, 7 games w/ 3.5 per carry or less. He's had games where he has been completely useless in the running game. (three games w/ less than 3 yards per carry) Marion has done a fine job but, he hasnt been as effective as he can be. The platoon works best for him...he has been inconsistant on the ground this year and averaging under 4 yards per carry for the year. The big thing w/ Marion, though...timely running and ball control. Thats where he makes his money, I actually wouldnt call him a pro bowl back as a 20 carry a guy game, though to be honest. He's a very good back but the truth is, he is a sporadic performer on the ground who has a habit of dancing a little too much sometimes. I have no complaints at all but, I dont really like him as much as others in this carry the load role he's been forced into.

          Thanks BoneKrusher^

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          • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
            I don't have the numbers, but keeping Barber in the passing game is apart of our offense no matter who the QB is. I mean Barber's receiving numbers have been higher than the norm for most other backs much longer than just this season. Am I wrong?
            Well, you're kind of wrong. Marion had 44 receptions last year a good receiving year but, prior to that he had average receiving numbers but, again he wasnt being featured yet...but anyway yes, Marion is someone we love to get the ball to through the air but, this season it has been a little over kill. His numbers have been amassed by an abundance of check downs rather than designed/featured routes. Earlier in the year, Romo was honestly having some kind of depression problem and not playing all that confident. That Arizona game he checked down to Barber a thousand times, depsite having guys open down field. He didnt want to take chances...most likely do to the fumbling problems in that one. Those 11 receptions and the 6 he got in the Bucs game from Brad "check down" Johnson make up a huge chunk of his total receptions. Now, none of this negativity falls on Marion but, a key reason he has so many in the 1st place is because, of suspect QB play.

            Thanks BoneKrusher^

            http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
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            • Dont wanna pile on Barber because, he is a good player and a great person...but anyway, as for injuries. People are saying he's never hurt...well, that's not really the case. Power backs like Barber dont suffer the big injury, they suffer the little ones that wear them down over time. The cracked/bruised ribs, the dislocated toe...these kind of injuries are the one's you should be fearful of when talking about power backs. It all begins to take a toll on this kind of back.

              Thanks BoneKrusher^

              http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
              http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
              KO KNOWS

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              • I guess it's just a case of what I was saying was probably explained wrong. I consider(previous to this argument) an every down back the type of back who doesn't come out unless he's needs a quick rest(thus he's in on over 80% of offensive plays.)

                Marion being flung into the deepend made me want to see us pick up someone like Tatum Bell in the offseason(even with the probability of us going after DMac, Felix or Mendenhall) I wanted a player who we didn't have to teach to block. And someone who could open a game for us without needing a certain amount of carries to feel wanted(or not robotic... Julius)

                Plus I would feel a hell of a lot more confident now if we had Tatum/Marion/Choice/Felix then I do with it just being Marion and Choice.

                Honestly I thought we were a little thin at the position with two rookies and a guy who was going to be starting and carrying the load for the first time in his career. Luckily to this point Marion has held up physically.

                Comment


                • Rb is the easiest position to transition to, we were fine at the position. You dont go wasting valuable roster spots by keeping 4 backs....and as for blocking, the rookies blocking hasnt even been a problem. Choice is a solid pass blocker and Felix performed well in the preseason and did well for the most part when he was in the real games. He actually looked fairly good in the few times he had to pick up the blitz.

                  Thanks BoneKrusher^

                  http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                  http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
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                  • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
                    Rb is the easiest position to transition to, we were fine at the position. You dont go wasting valuable roster spots by keeping 4 backs....and as for blocking, the rookies blocking hasnt even been a problem. Choice is a solid pass blocker and Felix performed well in the preseason and did well for the most part when he was in the real games. He actually looked fairly good in the few times he had to pick up the blitz.
                    I think you need to review some more tape on Choice. So far he's had a rough time in pass protection... down right horrid at others. Romo chewed him out last game.

                    But you're right about not needing a 4th back. Choice hardly gets the rock as is.

                    ...and did someone actually say they wanted Tatum Bell? OMG, that's terrrrrrible! Not only does he suck and fumble the ball a lot... He steals!!!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by shane_man View Post
                      I guess it's just a case of what I was saying was probably explained wrong. I consider(previous to this argument) an every down back the type of back who doesn't come out unless he's needs a quick rest(thus he's in on over 80% of offensive plays.)

                      Marion being flung into the deepend made me want to see us pick up someone like Tatum Bell in the offseason(even with the probability of us going after DMac, Felix or Mendenhall) I wanted a player who we didn't have to teach to block. And someone who could open a game for us without needing a certain amount of carries to feel wanted(or not robotic... Julius)

                      Plus I would feel a hell of a lot more confident now if we had Tatum/Marion/Choice/Felix then I do with it just being Marion and Choice.

                      Honestly I thought we were a little thin at the position with two rookies and a guy who was going to be starting and carrying the load for the first time in his career. Luckily to this point Marion has held up physically.
                      I still don't buy the argument that Marion can't be a full time back. Is it ideal for him? No. That's fair. But to say he can't, that's wrong. To say he sucks at it, that's wrong.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
                        Dont wanna pile on Barber because, he is a good player and a great person...but anyway, as for injuries. People are saying he's never hurt...well, that's not really the case. Power backs like Barber dont suffer the big injury, they suffer the little ones that wear them down over time. The cracked/bruised ribs, the dislocated toe...these kind of injuries are the one's you should be fearful of when talking about power backs. It all begins to take a toll on this kind of back.
                        Every back faces injuries big or small. Every RB's body takes a toll. Not sure where you're going with this argument.

                        There's a huge misconception on Barber that he just drills his body into direct contact. That's not true at all. Most of the time he's bouncing off someone or spinning away as he goes down. The way he absorbs contact will extend his career because he doesn't take them head on... say like a Jamal Lewis or Brandon Jacobs.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                          I still don't buy the argument that Marion can't be a full time back. Is it ideal for him? No. That's fair. But to say he can't, that's wrong. To say he sucks at it, that's wrong.
                          To me, this is a much bigger conversation and why I've mostly stayed out of this. It's rare to find a back in the NFL who doesn't need a talented backup to make his life a little easier. Barber is a premier running back. He is a sparkplug in the offense. He's clutch. He's a fighter. He's been healthy so far. That's all that should matter right? He's doing his job, and doing it well. He's done anything and everything the coaches have asked of him. But it makes sense to have someone who can hit home runs (Felix) getting some touches. Felix will have 8 ypc for the rest of his career if it's he and Barber getting touches, they're perfect for eachother.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                            I think you need to review some more tape on Choice. So far he's had a rough time in pass protection... down right horrid at others. Romo chewed him out last game.

                            But you're right about not needing a 4th back. Choice hardly gets the rock as is.

                            ...and did someone actually say they wanted Tatum Bell? OMG, that's terrrrrrible! Not only does he suck and fumble the ball a lot... He steals!!!
                            One of Choice's strengths in college was pass blocking...that is what i meant. He may have been having a few problems picking up the blitz but, he wont be a major problem and once he gets it down he'll be very good there.

                            Thanks BoneKrusher^

                            http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                            http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                            KO KNOWS

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
                              Well, you're kind of wrong. Marion had 44 receptions last year a good receiving year but, prior to that he had average receiving numbers but, again he wasnt being featured yet...but anyway yes, Marion is someone we love to get the ball to through the air but, this season it has been a little over kill. His numbers have been amassed by an abundance of check downs rather than designed/featured routes. Earlier in the year, Romo was honestly having some kind of depression problem and not playing all that confident. That Arizona game he checked down to Barber a thousand times, depsite having guys open down field. He didnt want to take chances...most likely do to the fumbling problems in that one. Those 11 receptions and the 6 he got in the Bucs game from Brad "check down" Johnson make up a huge chunk of his total receptions. Now, none of this negativity falls on Marion but, a key reason he has so many in the 1st place is because, of suspect QB play.
                              Um... a RB is typically not going to have "designed/featured" routes for them to run, so I don't know where you get the idea that Marion is lacking because he is a check down option. Besides, being a check down option is apart of the design... not a feature, but definitely apart of the play design for sure.

                              Most RBs in the league don't have pass catching ability so their offenses are limited in their playcalling. I find it funny that you think it's a negative thing for Barber to have so many receptions.

                              And as much as people want to criticize Barber for his YPC, I cannot stress enough how much a non-existent passing attack would factor into bad rushing numbers. Without Romo, I'm simply amazed Barber has been able to carry the load like he has.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                                There's a huge misconception on Barber that he just drills his body into direct contact. That's not true at all. Most of the time he's bouncing off someone or spinning away as he goes down. The way he absorbs contact will extend his career because he doesn't take them head on... say like a Jamal Lewis or Brandon Jacobs.
                                People who only see his highlights or don't really watch Cowboys fans are the ones perpetuating this myth. Dedicated Cowboys fans should know better. Barber seeks contact when necessary: to get in the end zone, to get the first down, to get past the L.O.S. Any other time he'll fight, but he's not looking to get beat up. He'll wiggle, pump his legs, and throw the nastiest stiffarm in football. But he's not sticking his helmet out there and letting defenders tee off on him. He doesn't run upright. How many gigantic hits have you seen on the dude? I can't remember any.

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