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  • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
    One of Choice's strengths in college was pass blocking...that is what i meant. He may have been having a few problems picking up the blitz but, he wont be a major problem and once he gets it down he'll be very good there.
    Really? Georgia Tech's passing attack... well, let's just say.. they've never really had a good one. Pass has always been secondary to the run so I don't know how he could really have gotten good credit for being a good pass blocker in an offense where passing is secondary.

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    • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
      Really? Georgia Tech's passing attack... well, let's just say.. they've never really had a good one. Pass has always been secondary to the run so I don't know how he could really have gotten good credit for being a good pass blocker in an offense where passing is secondary.
      To be fair, he was there a good portion of Calvin Johnson's time. That doesn't mean they passed often, or like Andy Reid/Mike Martz/Mike Leach often, but I'm far too lazy to look up the stats. All I'm saying is that with CJ on the field, Choice probably had a few opportunities to pass block.

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      • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
        Every back faces injuries big or small. Every RB's body takes a toll. Not sure where you're going with this argument.

        There's a huge misconception on Barber that he just drills his body into direct contact. That's not true at all. Most of the time he's bouncing off someone or spinning away as he goes down. The way he absorbs contact will extend his career because he doesn't take them head on... say like a Jamal Lewis or Brandon Jacobs.
        I'm saying these little injuries wear on the power back more so than others because, even though they're nursing injuries...they'll continue to be that power back and in turn, make things worse and wear down quicker. Once Marion starts seeing an abundance of smaller injuries, that is when you should get a little worried. It happens to the best of the power backs.

        As for Marion not taking his punishment...nah. Marion gets beat to hell in games...yes, he deals it out as well but, from experience...I can assure you that he is for sure taking his fair share of punishment as well. Marion is a tough nasty player but, there is just no way he can keep it up for a long time the way he runs the ball. It's just the way it is...unless he is some freak of nature because, history shows us a lot in this case. I wouldnt change anything about the guy but, he really is bound to wear down a whole lot quicker than the average back.

        It's not like he even has the advantage of having a Jamal Lewis, Jerome Bettis, or Brandon Jacobs body. He has a body type similar to Earl Campbell's, smaller even.

        Thanks BoneKrusher^

        http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
        http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
        KO KNOWS

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        • Originally posted by Ward View Post
          To be fair, he was there a good portion of Calvin Johnson's time. That doesn't mean they passed often, or like Andy Reid/Mike Martz/Mike Leach often, but I'm far too lazy to look up the stats. All I'm saying is that with CJ on the field, Choice probably had a few opportunities to pass block.
          CJ didn't have good stats there... nothing eye popping at least for a Top 3 pick. With Reggie Ball throwing him the ball you can't really blame him for that though. CJ was a freak of nature in a bad passing offense. I mistakenly understood Moth as saying Choice was a good pass blocker now and that's what I was disagreeing with. I hope he improves and he can only go up from here, but he's got a lot of learning to do.

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          • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
            Really? Georgia Tech's passing attack... well, let's just say.. they've never really had a good one. Pass has always been secondary to the run so I don't know how he could really have gotten good credit for being a good pass blocker in an offense where passing is secondary.
            As Ward said, they passed enough when they had Calvin and he more than held his own. It was def. one of the better aspects of his game. Now, I dont know what exactly happened at this level, though...because, blitz pick up was a reason cited by Skip Peete as to why Choice wasnt getting playing time. I will say this, though...in the long run, i'm not at all worried about his blocking.

            Thanks BoneKrusher^

            http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
            http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
            KO KNOWS

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            • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
              I'm saying these little injuries wear on the power back more so than others because, even though they're nursing injuries...they'll continue to be that power back and in turn, make things worse and wear down quicker. Once Marion starts seeing an abundance of smaller injuries, that is when you should get a little worried. It happens to the best of the power backs.

              As for Marion not taking his punishment...nah. Marion gets beat to hell in games...yes, he deals it out as well but, from experience...I can assure you that he is for sure taking his fair share of punishment as well. Marion is a tough nasty player but, there is just no way he can keep it up for a long time the way he runs the ball. It's just the way it is...unless he is some freak of nature because, history shows us a lot in this case. I wouldnt change anything about the guy but, he really is bound to wear down a whole lot quicker than the average back.

              It's not like he even has the advantage of having a Jamal Lewis, Jerome Bettis, or Brandon Jacobs body. He has a body type similar to Earl Campbell's, smaller even.
              Well, I can't really counter this except to say, it hasn't happened yet and that's the strongest proof. This is a common thought by most and we hear it all the time... and will keep hearing it because it's an easy one to picture. But the fact of the matter is injuries will happen to all backs of all styles... Gore, Addai, McGahee, Portis, Jacobs, Lewis, AD, Cadillac, Bush, McAllister, Felix.... whoever... all different styles. RBs will get hurt. Those sharing your opinion of Barber will always feel justified and right when/if he gets hurt... they'll say, see...see... I told you. Well, like I said before... they ALL get hurt. Anytime ANY back of such importance gets hurt you worry. I don't see the need to say, "Watch out for Barber because the way he runs, you better worry about injury". Any style or size... it doesn't matter... football is a contact sport.

              I could even make a case that the way he runs might actually extend his career. Take 2 eggs, hold one still and and ram the other one into it. Which one cracks? The one you're holding still. Barber is like the egg "dishing" it. Haha... pretty good one, eh? I know... it's just talk... but it's good food for thought... no pun intended. ;)

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              • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
                Dont wanna pile on Barber because, he is a good player and a great person...but anyway, as for injuries. People are saying he's never hurt...well, that's not really the case. Power backs like Barber dont suffer the big injury, they suffer the little ones that wear them down over time. The cracked/bruised ribs, the dislocated toe...these kind of injuries are the one's you should be fearful of when talking about power backs. It all begins to take a toll on this kind of back.
                You can say that for everyone not just Barber, no one is immune to injuries, but the facts are backs like Portis, and Steven Jackson have much more wear and tear on their bodies, Barber has been splitting carries since College and keeps his body in top shape so I'm not worried about a few injuries, he's not immune to getting nicked up ya know.


                You guys keep pointing out about it wearing him down, yes obviously like anyone else, but there are backs who have been hurt far more, and more frequently, there is no way he's going to go through the season with no injuries what so ever...Jamal Lewis has taking plenty of bumps and bruises year after year as a huge back and his carries were way more then Barber has now...I think that point is being exaggerated by people and we have been talking about it for 2 years now, there is nothing to prove his career will be any shorter then the typical lifespan of a NFL RB and honestly it would look like he could have a longer lifespan then some others....This isn't a guy who toted the rock like Ray Rice or Kevin Smith in college, and he surely didn't when we got here, so why does everyone act like because he's a 'big back' he's 5 carries away from deteriorating.




                Originally posted by shane_man View Post
                I guess it's just a case of what I was saying was probably explained wrong. I consider(previous to this argument) an every down back the type of back who doesn't come out unless he's needs a quick rest(thus he's in on over 80% of offensive plays.)

                Marion being flung into the deepend made me want to see us pick up someone like Tatum Bell in the offseason(even with the probability of us going after DMac, Felix or Mendenhall) I wanted a player who we didn't have to teach to block. And someone who could open a game for us without needing a certain amount of carries to feel wanted(or not robotic... Julius)

                Plus I would feel a hell of a lot more confident now if we had Tatum/Marion/Choice/Felix then I do with it just being Marion and Choice.

                Honestly I thought we were a little thin at the position with two rookies and a guy who was going to be starting and carrying the load for the first time in his career. Luckily to this point Marion has held up physically.

                I guess I can see where your coming from, but at the same time I feel like some Cowboys fans expect too much from guys, if Barber fit everyones demands around here he would be a Hall of Famer...I agree he's better used in a committee, but still I'm not sold on him wearing down late in games, otherwise you wouldn't see things like the way he dominated the 4th quarter in Washington or you wouldn't see a guy who supposedly has no break away speed catch a 70 yard touchdown pass at the 2 minute warning of a game we were already losing and playing with no heart.


                Forget the stats, I don't need stats to show me the heart he was playing with, now your trying to tell me he looked gassed there, or not as effective? I'm not trying to make him out like something he isn't, but I appreciate those plays like that...He started as a short yardage/goal line back and has worked to where he is now, obviously the plan was to utilize Felix with him and I agree he would be most effective in that role, but at the same time I really don't think there is much room for complaints with the situation we are in now without Felix.


                As D said he's as versatile as they come, he does everything for us out there and sometimes I feel thats overlooked...If it's a 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 do you have any doubt that he will get that yard? He has great instincts and awareness on the field especially late in games, he'll catch a huge 3rd down pass, seal off the blitzing LB for a TD pass, he does alot of things for us and while his stats may not be eye popping he's crucial to our success and I think he has performed well with what's been asked of him.
                Last edited by LonghornsLegend; 12-04-2008, 12:59 AM.





                Originally posted by Scott Wright
                I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

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                • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
                  As Ward said, they passed enough when they had Calvin and he more than held his own. It was def. one of the better aspects of his game. Now, I dont know what exactly happened at this level, though...because, blitz pick up was a reason cited by Skip Peete as to why Choice wasnt getting playing time. I will say this, though...in the long run, i'm not at all worried about his blocking.
                  For the time being, I'll be worried about it if he's in on passing downs. And for the record you did say, "Choice is a solid pass blocker". ;)

                  Thanks for the convo guys. I gotta get off the comp before my fingers get fused together with the keyboard.

                  This Dallas forum is still the best Cowboys forum on the net!

                  Comment


                  • oh geez...lol. What a way to end that one. haha.

                    meh, we're just going to have to wait and see...but, honestly when it comes to power backs and I'm just talking about power backs. There are warning signs, lots of little/nagging injuries. Injuries that may seem minor but, do take quite a toll on this type of ball carrier because, of their continued style of play. But yeah, given his body and overly bruising style, there is a legitimate reason to be a little worried for his future. These backs just arent very effective for a long period of time and the ones that are...tend to be massive bodied. Like Bettis and Lewis.
                    Last edited by M.O.T.H.; 12-04-2008, 12:39 AM.

                    Thanks BoneKrusher^

                    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                    KO KNOWS

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                    • Every time I come in here you guys are typing frickin novels. Makes me feel lazy.

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                      • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                        For the time being, I'll be worried about it if he's in on passing downs. And for the record you did say, "Choice is a solid pass blocker". ;)

                        Thanks for the convo guys. I gotta get off the comp before my fingers get fused together with the keyboard.

                        This Dallas forum is still the best Cowboys forum on the net!
                        Well, he should be a solid pass blocker. A flip of the switch could come as early as this next game. Because like I said, he was a very good blocker at the collegiate level and in turn, labeled one of the most NFL ready players in the class. He'll be fine.

                        edit...well we are playing the Steelers. hmm, maybe next week that switch will flip. haha.

                        Thanks BoneKrusher^

                        http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                        http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                        KO KNOWS

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
                          You can say that for everyone not just Barber, no one is immune to injuries, but the facts are backs like Portis, and Steven Jackson have much more wear and tear on their bodies, Barber has been splitting carries since College and keeps his body in top shape so I'm not worried about a few injuries, he's not immune to getting nicked up ya know.


                          You guys keep pointing out about it wearing him down, yes obviously like anyone else, but there are backs who have been hurt far more, and more frequently, there is no way he's going to go through the season with no injuries what so ever...Jamal Lewis has taking plenty of bumps and bruises year after year as a huge back and his carries were way more then Barber has now...I think that point is being exaggerated by people and we have been talking about it for 2 years now, there is nothing to prove his career will be any shorter then the typical lifespan of a NFL RB and honestly it would look like he could have a longer lifespan then some others....This isn't a guy who toted the rock like Ray Rice or Kevin Smith in college, and he surely didn't when we got here, so why does everyone act like because he's a 'big back' he's 5 carries away from deteriorating.







                          I guess I can see where your coming from, but at the same time I feel like some Cowboys fans expect too much from guys, if Barber fit everyones demands around here he would be a Hall of Famer...I agree he's better used in a committee, but still I'm not sold on him wearing down late in games, otherwise you wouldn't see things like the way he dominated the 4th quarter in Washington or you wouldn't see a guy who supposedly has no break away speed catch a 70 yard touchdown pass at the 2 minute warning of a game we were already losing and playing with no heart.


                          Forget the stats, I don't need stats to show me the heart he was playing with, now your trying to tell me he looked gassed there, or not as effective? I'm not trying to make him out like something he isn't, but I appreciate those plays like that...He started as a short yardage/goal line back and has worked to where he is now, obviously the plan was to utilize Felix with him and I agree he would be most effective in that role, but at the same time I really don't think there is much room for complaints with the situation we are in now without Felix.


                          As D said he's as versatile as they come, he does everything for us out there and sometimes I feel thats overlooked...If it's a 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 do you have any doubt that he will get that yard? He has great instincts and awareness on the field especially late in games, he'll catch a huge 3rd down pass, seal off the blitzing LB for a TD pass, he does alot of things for us and while his stats may not be eye popping he's crucial to our success and I think he has performed well with what's been asked of him.
                          Loved that Youtube clip! I always wanted to see that again more closely. First MB out runs Karlos Dansby laterally, TO is there for a block, and Austin flies in to lay out #22 (amazing)! Barber's bad ass stiff arm on #20 before he jukes out Antrel Rolle to the endzone. Be-YOU-ti-FULL!!!

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                          • Originally posted by D-Unit
                            ...and did someone actually say they wanted Tatum Bell? OMG, that's terrrrrrible! Not only does he suck and fumble the ball a lot... He steals!!!
                            I wanted him or someone like him. Someone who has actually rushed in the NFL and had a few years with Pro Coaches teaching him to pass block and do all the little things they teach you in your transition from College to Pro. Just someone to open the game up... Maybe break a nice early gain and force the D to move around before sitting most of the game and watching Marion and Felix make defence's look stupid for the next 50 odd minutes of actual gametime.

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                            • Originally posted by Paul View Post
                              Every time I come in here you guys are typing frickin novels. Makes me feel lazy.
                              You're still one of the boyz.

                              Comment


                              • Three things w/ that clip.

                                1. I wouldnt call that break away speed, just good running. He was almost tackled twice.

                                2. The quality is awful, I wonder if that has to do w/ the new formatting and such.

                                3. Great play. :D

                                Thanks BoneKrusher^

                                http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                                http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                                KO KNOWS

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