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  • So let me get this -- we resigned a limited upside guy like Crayton when we had a clone like Hurd around but we are going to happily take the 51st pick in the draft for a big upside WR (Austin ) whom we just invested 3 years on?

    To me it is all about money on this one but I have a hard time understanding how folks loved the Crayton signing and called it reasonable but seem just fine with losing a deep threat like Austin who seems to be ready for a break out season now that he might get a shot.

    Anyway, other Crabtree I see no WR in this draft I'd prefer for the next 3 years over Austin. My opinion, at least.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by nrcirc View Post
      I like Terrance Taylor a lot, I believe he is the stronger lineman this year with a long arm but a little short. He is more ready than Sammy Lee Hill. Anyway, I don't remember that any draft prospect that have started in first year as NT.
      I saw plenty of UoM games and never really saw Taylor make a play.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by nrcirc View Post
        I like Terrance Taylor a lot, I believe he is the stronger lineman this year with a long arm but a little short. He is more ready than Sammy Lee Hill. Anyway, I don't remember that any draft prospect that have started in first year as NT.
        IDK if that is referencing what I said above...but I said play....not start....be able to give Ratliff a series or two off every now and then. Interesting fact about Taylor is that he has experience being dropped into coverage...which makes a lot of sense to me. But I haven't heard us and him together at all.

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        • Originally posted by herniateddisc View Post
          I saw plenty of UoM games and never really saw Taylor make a play.
          Okay, who you like Cowboys to draft as NT this year?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by herniateddisc View Post
            So let me get this -- we resigned a limited upside guy like Crayton when we had a clone like Hurd around but we are going to happily take the 51st pick in the draft for a big upside WR (Austin ) whom we just invested 3 years on?

            To me it is all about money on this one but I have a hard time understanding how folks loved the Crayton signing and called it reasonable but seem just fine with losing a deep threat like Austin who seems to be ready for a break out season now that he might get a shot.

            Anyway, other Crabtree I see no WR in this draft I'd prefer for the next 3 years over Austin. My opinion, at least.
            IDK if anyone remembers my thoughts on Crayton...but I hated the resigning...I thought that it would hamper progression and that he was an average guy that could be replaced by another body...something that I think has been validated for the most part.

            Rob...I think what you are seeing with fans getting excited about the possibility isn't the fact that they want to lose austin...but the fact that we would get such good value from it. By not resigning Crayton we wouldn't recieve a 2nd round pick so it is different from that regaurd. I don't think one fan thought that Crayton could be what we view as Austins ability at this point in time. Austin clearly has #1 potential...which is something Crayton never had...but it's what we get if Austin leaves which is leading to all the discussion.

            I agree that Crabtree would be nice....also I'd be for Maclin because he is so dynamic in all assests of the game....his special teams contributions would be great for us...and he could give us that quick twitch guy i've been calling for. However he is even more out of reach than Crabtree from the recent reports that have been coming out.

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            • Originally posted by nrcirc View Post
              Okay, who you like Cowboys to draft as NT this year?
              I am on record with two things

              1) I like Brace but not till 3rd

              2) If we think Siavii or Anderson are comprable in terms of talent -- just keep what we got and don't draft Brace.

              Bottom line is I don't know enuff to say A or B. What I do know is Ratliff is not a NT and never will be -- and I could care less how many TFLs he has.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by herniateddisc View Post
                I saw plenty of UoM games and never really saw Taylor make a play.
                I agree with you here....maybe I'm a fool who is in love with his measureables....but he could have came out last year and been a day 1 pick...now we are talking about him in the 3rd-4th round range. He wasn't the reason that Michigan was terrible this year....and he was a difference maker his jr year...albiet surrounded with more talent...I just think he is on of those guys who....(sorry if this sounds cliche) better pro than college player. Stocky/Strong/Untapped Potential/Agile...these are things I see with Taylor...that make me think he would be worthy of a day 2 selection.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by thule View Post
                  IDK if anyone remembers my thoughts on Crayton...but I hated the resigning...I thought that it would hamper progression and that he was an average guy that could be replaced by another body...something that I think has been validated for the most part.
                  Fair enuff, I hated the signing.

                  Originally posted by thule View Post
                  Rob...I think what you are seeing with fans getting excited about the possibility isn't the fact that they want to lose austin...but the fact that we would get such good value from it.
                  Not so sure about that -- I just don't think a late second is as valuable to this team as Austin for the next 2-3 seasons.

                  Originally posted by thule View Post
                  By not resigning Crayton we wouldn't recieve a 2nd round pick so it is different from that regaurd.
                  I agree but this is not really the topic on hand.

                  Originally posted by thule View Post
                  I don't think one fan thought that Crayton could be what we view as Austins ability at this point in time. Austin clearly has #1 potential...
                  I wrote this two years ago and was laughed at.

                  Originally posted by thule View Post
                  which is something Crayton never had...but it's what we get if Austin leaves which is leading to all the discussion.

                  I agree that Crabtree would be nice....also I'd be for Maclin because he is so dynamic in all assests of the game....his special teams contributions would be great for us...and he could give us that quick twitch guy i've been calling for. However he is even more out of reach than Crabtree from the recent reports that have been coming out.
                  I like Maclin but as a two, whereas I think Crabtree is a #1. Neither will be around late second so ..... more the reason Austin leaving is a big loss IMHO ....... unless we get Plax who I would love in Dallas with Romo.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by herniateddisc View Post
                    I am on record with two things

                    1) I like Brace but not till 3rd

                    2) If we think Siavii or Anderson are comprable in terms of talent -- just keep what we got and don't draft Brace.

                    Bottom line is I don't know enuff to say A or B. What I do know is Ratliff is not a NT and never will be -- and I could care less how many TFLs he has.
                    Well what happens if
                    1) Brace goes before the 3rd
                    2) Siavii and Anderson are scrubs (which I think they are....classic case of fans over hyping the players on their team because of what local media/coaching staff has to say about them)...ask marty b and maybe we'd get something truthful.

                    Then it looks like your boy Jay will be manning the position again....wouldn't you play him out of position if these were you options?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by herniateddisc View Post
                      Fair enuff, I hated the signing.



                      Not so sure about that -- I just don't think a late second is as valuable to this team as Austin for the next 2-3 seasons.

                      interesting thought...and I agree with you there...no WR is going to come in from pick 51 and contribute what Austin was going to at WR...but if you think 51 could land a player that would contribute at a different position...whether it's moving up or whatnot...than maybe you make the move because of that. I'm completely against trading him and then turning around and replacing him in the 2nd...that wouldn't make any sense.

                      I agree but this is not really the topic on hand.



                      I wrote this two years ago and was laughed at.

                      I said #1 potential....you said he shoulda been the #1 two years ago. This is completely different imo.

                      I like Maclin but as a two, whereas I think Crabtree is a #1. Neither will be around late second so ..... more the reason Austin leaving is a big loss IMHO ....... unless we get Plax who I would love in Dallas with Romo.
                      Plax would be awesome to see in dallas...idk...almost seems like the circus would be back in town....but he has always been an elite player at the position...if we could add him with the cap space from Austin and Ellis than I think you do it...it's not like he was a locker room cancer...he might not practice...but he shows up on game days....IDK if thats what we want or not...but it would sure make not matching Austin's deal look genius.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by thule View Post
                        Plax would be awesome to see in dallas...idk...almost seems like the circus would be back in town....but he has always been an elite player at the position...if we could add him with the cap space from Austin and Ellis than I think you do it...it's not like he was a locker room cancer...he might not practice...but he shows up on game days....IDK if thats what we want or not...but it would sure make not matching Austin's deal look genius.
                        Thule, my words on Austin is he was capable of being a #1. Or to paraphrase "he has #1 written all over him." These comments were made to dissuade a few fannies that somehow HURD HURD HURD was something special which he is not and that Austin was the guy to invest in. I was correct.

                        In addition, I said Austin is a better WCO WR and that he would be well served by leaving Dallas. I never ever said he was a #1 at that moment two years ago. Sorry -- but that is another example of people reading far beyond a comment to engineer an opinion. I did think he could take over for TO if they groomed him properly -- which they did not b/c they don't do this very well in Dallas.

                        On Plax, Burress is a bum but he is not a locker room cancer and he absolutely destroys teams in the division. Not once in NY did you hear a team-mate say the guy creates friction or noise in the locker room. Frankly the TO/Plax inference is bad -- TO wants to be the man, Plax wants to be ignored.
                        Last edited by herniateddisc; 04-09-2009, 07:23 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by thule View Post
                          ....wouldn't you play him out of position if these were you options?
                          Yes, but this NT thing has been a problem for years and many opportunities have come and gone to solve it. Kris Jenkins and Shaun Rogers to name a few I had proposed.

                          Either way, the point stands -- if you think Brace is no better than .... don't bother and find some other option to fill a CRITICAL GAP.

                          One-gap NT make little sense to me given how ILB need to make reads and play in a 3-4. MILB in a 4-3 need to attack, 3-4 ILB, need to split duties between attacking and containing. A two-gap NT is essential to allowing the ILB to work right. It is essential to not having to play the SS in the box and as a result it improves the Pass D.

                          Don't think those long runs by Baltimore could not have been avoided by a better NT. It all starts at the Nose in the 3-4 and even effects the pass D with or without a good pass rush.

                          Comment


                          • Just some general thoughts.

                            -If we lose Austin, this would be our biggest off-season loss this year. Even more than TO. He has more upside than any of our young WR's. If we lose him, were forced to draft a WR and groom them quickly.

                            -Signing Plax would be the worst mistake we could make. While he has upside talent, the legal issues merely outweigh his talent at this point. I like the way were heading in cleaning up some of the distractions on our team. Bringing in Plax would just throw out the door everything we've done in the off-season.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by leroyisgod View Post
                              Just some general thoughts.

                              -If we lose Austin, this would be our biggest off-season loss this year. Even more than TO. He has more upside than any of our young WR's. If we lose him, were forced to draft a WR and groom them quickly.

                              -Signing Plax would be the worst mistake we could make. While he has upside talent, the legal issues merely outweigh his talent at this point. I like the way were heading in cleaning up some of the distractions on our team. Bringing in Plax would just throw out the door everything we've done in the off-season.
                              We wouldn't "have" to draft a WR. We could bring in a vet and let hurd/crayton/stanbeck to see what you got. Then if that doesn't work in TC...we could look to bring in another body. A guy with 18 catches in his career is being looked at as a "must have" player by cowboys fans right now. And to be honest I think he "can" be that player...but he isn't there yet and every year is dinged up. If you can get a first day pick for him that is a steal. Think about it...Javon Walker was in his prime and was traded after his most productive season for a 2nd....Austin for a 2nd is a steal for us...and if he becomes a good WR with another team good for him...we are ok too.

                              Comment


                              • Something that is worth a thought.

                                If this Austin deal were to happen. We'd have ammo to get into the 20's.

                                My personal favorite move would be to move up into that 15-20 range throw in a player and take Oher if he is on the board which I think he will be.

                                But something that we may be overlooking is Harvin. He'll probably fall in that 20-30 range...and if we lost Austin we might be looking to add a game-breaker. Harvin is that....although he doesn't have return experience....you would think you could coach a player stuff like that and let him go. Something to watch out for there.

                                Look at it like this. With the addition of Sensy and from the looks of it no Lt worth taking outside of the top 40. And no ILB help...your almost free to move up as you please. Interior OL depth would be nice...to get fresh talent in there and sure a Safety that could play right away would be nice...but the talent drop off from 2nd round to the 4th round isnt' that mind boggling. I could come up with a few names that you could land in the fourth that would be close to talent in the 2nd.

                                My point is...being in that 50 range to us isn't exactly ideal...our biggest needs likely won't be addressed here unless a player falls...and you can't assume that it will happen. So taking into account Jerry's aggressive draft day trades...I wouldn't be surprised to see us make a move for a difference maker. Whether it is Oher/Harvin/Cushing...moving up into this range would make some sense.

                                Again though this all falls on the fact that we would have 2 2nd round picks.

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