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  • Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
    Yea, I'm for sure he post on BTB and comments on DMN, and I think one other site, which is why I wasn't sure or not because he never posted here, but judging by his use of the word "we" it's him.


    He makes some decent points, but it's hard for me to respect, or take anyone seriously who chooses to call someone ignorant as much as he does, or put words in peoples mouth, pet peeve of mine.



    This draft class we probably won't know what we have for awhile, hell even if Williams and Butler pan out their not starters because Spencer and Ware are still young.


    I just don't care to get into discussions with people who seem to get worked up too easily.


    The concerns on the lines(both sides) are legit, hopefully at some point we address them...Hey, at least Wilfork looks like he may hit Fa.


    The Jimmy Johnson point, about the trade value chart, and stockpiling picks for SB's is off though, back then weren't rounds much deeper then 7? I think over 10 if I'm not mistaken. Guys like Larry Brown I coulda sworn were much later then 7th rounders.

    Larry Brown was a 12th rounder, the draft was 12 rounds at that time.

    BTW the draft value chart that Jimmy Johnson came up with (along with Jerry, no one wants to ever credit Jerry) is way outdated for two reasons.

    #1 at the time it was based on what draft picks had been valued at given the previous drafts trade results. Since no team truely disected it like the JJ's did there were alot of value positions that had not been discovered. This means that since everyone knows about it now, it's not as beneficial or even accurate since the data used now doesn't match the data used then.

    #2 And vastly more important is the salary structure of rookies now. Back when the JJ's used the chart there were no guaranteed contracts so the higher you drafted the better. Recent hypothesis' is that drafting in the top 5 is many times counterproductive as the risks of a big contract outweigh the rewards in many cases. Hence the reason you don't see teams trying to get to the number 1 spot very often anymore.

    Designs by Thule



    Originally posted by DMWSackMachine
    I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by LSUALUM99 View Post
      Larry Brown was a 12th rounder, the draft was 12 rounds at that time.

      BTW the draft value chart that Jimmy Johnson came up with (along with Jerry, no one wants to ever credit Jerry) is way outdated for two reasons.

      #1 at the time it was based on what draft picks had been valued at given the previous drafts trade results. Since no team truely disected it like the JJ's did there were alot of value positions that had not been discovered. This means that since everyone knows about it now, it's not as beneficial or even accurate since the data used now doesn't match the data used then.

      #2 And vastly more important is the salary structure of rookies now. Back when the JJ's used the chart there were no guaranteed contracts so the higher you drafted the better. Recent hypothesis' is that drafting in the top 5 is many times counterproductive as the risks of a big contract outweigh the rewards in many cases. Hence the reason you don't see teams trying to get to the number 1 spot very often anymore.
      Welcome back Ranger! Good to see you here with the season looming ahead!

      Are you back to posting here? I figured you found somewhere else to post because of Bob.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
        Welcome back Ranger! Good to see you here with the season looming ahead!

        Are you back to posting here? I figured you found somewhere else to post because of Bob.
        I find that I get challenged by going over and over the same discussion with people over time so I took a break from message board warrioring for a while. I'll be here throughout the season though.

        Designs by Thule



        Originally posted by DMWSackMachine
        I just wanna warn you guys not to take TNew41 too seriously. He's....let's just say, special. He's fairly harmless, though. He just needs several years of seasoning before he tries to make any more points, is all.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by D-Unit
          I think you're the only one in the world who took that as saying Felix Jones is going to help the team in coverage. I'm making no progress here with you. Believe what you want.
          You made it seem like Special teams was not of a concern since Felix was coming back. You need to accept that you made a ridiculous statement.

          Originally posted by D-Unit

          OK, so now you know their entire draft strategy. Laughable. Even if true, it was a stupid strategy. That's what you don't get that I'm saying. Even you yourself gave it a B-. Why not an A+?
          I give it a B- because I think they added a lot of good depth and a couple of starters, which was their objective, but higher grades are reserved for drafts that produces multiple starters and possibly pro-bowlers.

          Originally posted by D-Unit

          Jerry does not need Tom's approval to make any decisions. Stop fooling yourself. No matter how close in tandem that they work together, everything falls on Jerry's shoulders. Jerry is the only one I've criticized from Day 1.
          Yes technically Jerry doesn't need Tom's approval, but I would be willing to bet my life savings he wouldn't go through with something unless Tom did approve except in extenuating circumstances. And the bolded statement proves my point. When it comes to the draft, trades, picks or whatever, Tom should get most or half of the blame and credit. Jerry has said on multiple occasions that it is the scouts who have controlled the war room since Parcells has left, although obviously Jerry signs off on whomever we pick. Jerry could be lying, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. You on the other hand think differently based on zero evidence.

          Originally posted by D-Unit

          Actually, you have been saying all of that. Don't deny it. But at least you're starting to understand where I'm coming from. 12 picks is enough to move up. I never said we had to give up a boatload. You miss understood me saying Felix would help in coverage. ....and thank you for admitting our NT position is in need of help. I agree. I also think that unless Spears shows something this year that his spot is in trouble.
          My point is what if teams were asking for a lot of picks? You don't know what the terms of the trade offers were so you can't say with any certainty that they should have trade up so many spots to get a certain player. That is my point.

          My point on the NT position is that it is not that much of a concern. Ok I admit I am a little concerned about NT for like 8 plays a game, but that role can be easily filled by a veteran that we can get off the streets.


          Originally posted by D-Unit
          I'm so done with this conversation now. You still believe weight to height ratio is a means of comparing similar players??? OMG. I threw Shaq's name out there. SO what if his ratio is not equal to Ratliff's. Who is it equal to? Tom Brady? Randy Moss? Teddy Bruschi? Doesn't matter who you name, who's ratio is the same. There's no way in hell that makes any sense at all. Your logic is screwed. Your reading comprehension baffles me. I can't believe you took that as Shaq playing the nose. ha. ha. ha. ha. ha. I'm done.
          We were comparing body types of nose tackles, because body type in part determines what a traditional nose tackle is. You threw out Shaq as an example that the ratio is not a good measure of stockiness. I proved otherwise. Anyhow point is Siavii doesn't necessarily have the traditional body type. He is a little stockier than Rat, but not signficantly so.
          Last edited by quincyyyyy; 08-07-2009, 12:32 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by LSUALUM99 View Post
            I find that I get challenged by going over and over the same discussion with people over time so I took a break from message board warrioring for a while. I'll be here throughout the season though.
            Sounds good. I know exactly what you're talking about. In the middle of one such discussion right now.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by quincyyyyy View Post
              You made it seem like Special teams was not of a concern since Felix was coming back. You need to accept that you made a ridiculous statement.
              Made it seem??? OK, so if you read it incorrectly, blame yourself. You need to accept that. I stand by my statements that Felix will help in the kick return game, that coaching was a problem for us on special teams and that it would not require 11 draft picks to fix STs (it could still be done with less picks).

              Originally posted by quincyyyyy View Post
              I give it a B- because I think they added a lot of good depth and a couple of starters, which was their objective, but higher grades are reserved for drafts that produces multiple starters and possibly pro-bowlers.
              Fair enough, I don't have a problem with that. I hope this draft does supply us with good depth and a couple of starters (outside of kickoff specialist). However, I think we could've done some different things to turn our plethora of picks into higher valued players. I most especially despise us trading DOWN from Rnd 2 for more picks. I don't want to hear excuses about not knowing the cost. We had the value. I wanted something more done about it. There's nothing more to argue about this. It is what it is. We got what we got. But basically, if I grade them, I knock them on that.

              Originally posted by quincyyyyy View Post
              Yes technically Jerry doesn't need Tom's approval, but I would be willing to bet my life savings he wouldn't go through with something unless Tom did approve except in extenuating circumstances. And the bolded statement proves my point. When it comes to the draft, trades, picks or whatever, Tom should get most or half of the blame and credit. Jerry has said on multiple occasions that it is the scouts who have controlled the war room since Parcells has left, although obviously Jerry signs off on whomever we pick. Jerry could be lying, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. You on the other hand think differently based on zero evidence.
              Where are you trying to steer this? I have never tried to undermine Tom except to say that he doesn't pull the strings when it comes to negotiating trades with other teams. For some reason, you think Tom is running the war room. That Jerry just does things IF Tom approves of it. That Jerry does nothing without his consent. To me, it doesn't matter how much input the scouts give, Jerry is still running the show. Bottom line is if I'm criticizing the fact that we didn't make or did make certain trades, then I'm blaming Jerry. If the players don't pan out, then I blame Tom.


              Originally posted by quincyyyyy View Post
              My point is what if teams were asking for a lot of picks? You don't know what the terms of the trade offers were so you can't say with any certainty that they should have trade up so many spots to get a certain player. That is my point.
              If? You don't know just as much as I don't know. I've acknowledged that if the cost was too high then, so be it. But you haven't acknowledged the fact that maybe we could have moved up. To you, it's already embedded in your brain that that option was not feasible. That's why there is no reasoning with you.

              Originally posted by quincyyyyy View Post
              My point on the NT position is that it is not that much of a concern. Ok I admit I am a little concerned about NT for like 8 plays a game, but that role can be easily filled by a veteran that we can get off the streets.
              It's not a concern, but you are a little concerned... which is it? So you think that a back up veteran who will play 8 snaps a game on run defense is the perfect solution? Is that because you think the opposing offense is only going to run the ball about 8 times in a game? What about the 20+ other times they run? Ratliff's run defense is in need of a lot of improvement. His strength is shooting the gap and getting to the QB. His specialty is not in run defense. This veteran backup, Siavii I assume you mean... Do you think that he's a good run stuffer? I don't know that yet. Do you think we'll insert him perfectly on every one of those 8 running plays? It sure would be easy if they knew what the offense would do on every play, wouldn't it? You've got some nice assumptions there.

              We need to stop the run this year and if there's one position that's most pivotal against that, it's the NT position. ...and we've got major question marks against stuffing the run there. Of little concern you say? We'll just agree to disagree then. Nothing more to say about that.

              Originally posted by quincyyyyy View Post
              We were comparing body types of nose tackles, because body type in part determines what a traditional nose tackle is. You threw out Shaq as an example that the ratio is not a good measure of stockiness. I proved otherwise. Anyhow point is Siavii doesn't necessarily have the traditional body type. He is a little stockier than Rat, but not signficantly so.
              No, your reading is bad again. I did not bring up Shaq as an example of stockiness for the NT position. LMAO. You said weight to height ratio was a good indicator of comparing players. If you do that, then you can compare Shaq, Godzilla, or Mini Me's height to weight ratio for that matter to people in the NFL and say they are comparable. Which is ridiculous. Back to the real point... Siavii and Ratliff are not of similar mold. You'd be a fool to stand them up next to each other and call them twins.

              This is going in circles. Starting to get real lame.

              Comment


              • Stanback is back today.

                Thanks BoneKrusher^

                http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                KO KNOWS

                Comment


                • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
                  Stanback is back today.
                  Who?.....:p




                  The greastest team of all time...The OKLAHOMA SOONERS!!! http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3849468

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by pocketaces View Post
                    Who?.....:p
                    I remember thinking how terrible that pick was. Then the homer in me got psyched up after watching him throw 70 yard bombs and run like Vick. Put this guy in his grave and let's just move on.

                    Get Holley some reps.

                    Comment


                    • Matt Moseley has some nice TC observations of his own:

                      Newcomer to watch


                      As I flip through my steno pad, No. 57 keeps appearing. That's the number of rookie outside linebacker Victor Butler out of Oregon State. He's been incredibly active in this camp, and I love the fact that you rarely see any hesitation from him. He and fellow outside linebacker Brandon Williams have had productive camps. Williams, the former Texas Tech Red Raider, is a very instinctive pass-rusher who simply needs to add more bulk to his frame. The team's top overall pick, inside linebacker Jason Williams, is really struggling. He's nowhere close to being able to help this defense right now. Does former first-round pick Bobby Carpenter count as a newcomer? He's actually having a pretty strong camp.




                      Market watch
                      Austin

                      Hurd

                      Reserve wide receivers Miles Austin and Sam Hurd are having an excellent camp. Austin's a burner who's learning how to be more patient in his routes, according to Phillips. In the past, Austin's simply raced down the field trying to use his elite speed. Now, he's slowing down and finding soft spots in the secondary. He's just a really smooth-looking player right now. Nothing seems rushed. With Hurd and Austin, you have to watch for injuries. They have a tendency to break down, but maybe they can get away from that this season.

                      Hurd's a San Antonio native who has thrilled the hometown fans with a series of acrobatic catches. He's sort of flying under the radar, but at this rate, he'll be impossible to keep off the field. Patrick Crayton's had a very steady camp. Nothing spectacular, but according to receivers coach Ray Sherman, he's still a starter. We'll see if that stands up when Coach Jones weighs in later in camp.



                      Observation deck


                      I still think former fifth-round pick Orlando Scandrick is a better player than former first-round pick Mike Jenkins at cornerback -- at this point in their careers. But Scandrick will probably begin the season as the nickel corner. He's a fearless player and the Cowboys need more like that ...

                      Ratliff has dropped down to 296 pounds after playing at 302 last season. But it looks like he's been able to retain his power while becoming even quicker. At this point, Ratliff's hands down the second-best defensive player behind DeMarcus Ware ...

                      Speaking of Ware, he's still waiting on a contract. He told me Thursday that it's not something he's worried about -- and I believe him. I'm thinking somewhere in the $40 million guaranteed range ...

                      There's a free-agent rookie named Kevin Ogletree who might make the team as a fifth receiver. He's made some difficult catches in traffic and has good speed ...

                      For fans of "4th and Long," I regret to tell you that Jesse Holley's not going to make this team. But he could sneak on the practice squad. Good hands, but not enough speed ...

                      Rookie quarterback Stephen McGee's really struggling right now. Maybe he can shine in the preseason, but right now he's thinking way too much. Just release the ball already ...

                      Romo made some nice throws on the move in red zone drills Thursday. And Jon Kitna still has a strong arm. He's been deadly accurate at times ...

                      Reserve guard/center Montrae Holland is always on the ground. Not good. Cory Procter is better as a reserve lineman ...

                      Rookie kicker David Buehler is putting everything in the end zone on kickoffs. He obviously has a monster leg. And the Cowboys are also working him in on kickoff returns and punt coverage ...

                      Rookie safety Michael Hamlin has excellent ball skills. He's a former high school receiver who has worked to improve his hands. I've watched him on low throws and he has the hands of a shortstop. He doesn't lunge at anything. He just scoops up the ball. Of all the rookies, I think he'll be the first to make an impact on defense...

                      On Wednesday and Thursday, the Romo-to-Roy Williams connection finally clicked.


                      Maybe I should have deleted the last part about RW, don't want Burns to see that and throw a temper tantrum again :p


                      Just another person who has been in practice though, always good to get different perspectives. He had a few more points if you want to check out the link.
                      Last edited by LonghornsLegend; 08-07-2009, 03:59 PM.





                      Originally posted by Scott Wright
                      I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
                        Matt Moseley has some nice TC observations of his own:




                        Maybe I should have deleted the last part about RW, don't want Burns to see that and throw a temper tantrum again :p


                        Just another person who has been in practice though, always good to get different perspectives. He had a few more points if you want to check out the link.
                        Good stuff! Like what I'm hearing. Too bad for Holley. Excited for Austin and Hurd. Ogletree eh? If he's in, Stancrack's out.

                        Not worried about Jason Williams... yet. I expected this stage to be too big for him. Hopefully time helps him grow mentally. Physically, he's there.

                        Butler has been getting great reviews. I like what I heard Leonard Davis say about him.

                        "That dude is good, man," Davis said. "He's an athlete. He's not big, but he's got speed, he's got quickness, he's got power. To me, that's a deadly combination. And he's smart.

                        "I don't know how he can cover – I haven't paid attention to that – but as a pure pass-rusher, he's crafty. He's got a nice combination going for him."

                        --------------------------

                        Listen to Ware... Says Davis is a legit LT. *cringes*

                        http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/ar...a-legit-l.html

                        Leonard Davis continues to get reps at left tackle as a contingency plan in case Flozell Adams goes down.

                        One notable expert believes that Davis would fare well if pressed into duty at the position he played of lot of in Arizona.

                        "I know he can play it, because I went against him," said DeMarcus Ware, who twice faced Davis in Cowboys-Cardinals meetings. "He's been playing well."

                        Well, DeMarcus, what about that crossover move by you that left ol' Bigg flat-footed during pass-rush drills this morning?

                        "That's just a mistake he made," Ware said. "I think he over-set, and I took the inside move on him."

                        In Davis' defense, Ware makes a lot of left tackles look bad on a regular basis.

                        You'll have to read between the lines to get Ware's thoughts on young LT Doug Free's development. When I asked about Free, Ware started raving about rookie OLBs Victor Butler and Brandon Williams.


                        Found that last part funny how he avoided saying anything good about Free. LOL.


                        Another fun one from Bennett's tweet...

                        "Mann this fool Orlando snoring like a fat kid laying on top of a grizzly bear hibernating in the summer under water. DAMN homie," @MartyBTV tweeted in the wee hours of the morning.

                        A follow-up tweet: "Starving now. Wouldn't even be up if it wasn't for the boombox in Orlando's throat."
                        Last edited by D-Unit; 08-07-2009, 04:15 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Strange, isn't it, how we can't hit on O-linemen? I mean, it was the same when Parcells and Ireland were here. We actually did a little better before the BP regime, because we hit on Larry Allen (HOF caliber), Flozell Adams (solid starter), and Andre Gurode (solid starter). It's been pretty pathetic for the last few years, though.

                          Of course, all three of those guys were 2nd round picks (not certain on Gurode), so maybe if Jerry would invest a few more high picks we'd see better results. Yes, I'm still bitter about Beatty.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by FinChase View Post
                            Strange, isn't it, how we can't hit on O-linemen? I mean, it was the same when Parcells and Ireland were here. We actually did a little better before the BP regime, because we hit on Larry Allen (HOF caliber), Flozell Adams (solid starter), and Andre Gurode (solid starter). It's been pretty pathetic for the last few years, though.

                            Of course, all three of those guys were 2nd round picks (not certain on Gurode), so maybe if Jerry would invest a few more high picks we'd see better results. Yes, I'm still bitter about Beatty.
                            Yeah, I really worry about this team's contingency plans for Flozell going down. The solution is not Free or McQ. It's Leonard. I'm hoping that is an emergency scenario and not a long term intention, but you never know what they're thinking. They had a chance at Beatty and Loadholt and instead traded down. I'll never understand that move. So they had several guys similarly graded... similarly graded all the way from 51 to 75??? I don't care that they're similarly graded... take one! The leftover crap available at 75 was a miscalculated move. It still burns that Jarron Gilbert got taken at 74, one pick ahead. Burns so badly.

                            Beatty is gonna be great for the NYG. I hate the excuse some give that he doesn't fit our scheme. The Giants scheme has big ole boys up front. Besides, how hard is it to ask an OL to gain weight if needed?

                            Jerry has never taken an OL in Round 1. That's so crazy. Hard to believe he'll do it next year. But damn, we need to do it early.

                            Comment


                            • thank you guys! and welcome back lsualumn ;)


                              In Bob We Trust

                              John Madden's wedding video business

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ddPHJWkPvU

                              Comment


                              • Mike Jenkins got carted off today. Lets hope its not serious.




                                The greastest team of all time...The OKLAHOMA SOONERS!!! http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3849468

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