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  • #46
    Originally posted by thule View Post
    I actually see Marten and Proctor on the gameday roster and Free on the inactive roster for the majority of the year. Marten can pinch either tackle position. Proctor would have started at RG last year after the Seattle game...and can supposedly snap. That is plenty of gameday depth.
    That is fine. I did say 1 of the 2 Tackle Draftees would be active. Free or Marten is just a unit of capacity.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by jdnoyes View Post
      Many times new coaches come in and get rid of the old guys pet projects. Thats why I think guys like Procter, McQ, Tyson T., Polite and a few others better bring it in camp this year or they could be gone.
      Did I just not say this on this very thread?

      Comment


      • #48
        I think people are waaaaaaaaay undervaluing McQuistan's place on this team. If you'll recall, this guy was the story during training camp last year. From all reports, he has the ability to be a quality starter at one of the 3 most important positions on the team (LT). Not only that, but you'll recall that Jerry, going into the off-season, was telling his coaching staff that "McQuistan has got to be ready to start" next year. Does that sound like someone who is a borderline guy that might get cut? No, it doesn't.

        In my mind, Pat is the future at LT until further notice. It's that simple. I have never heard Parcells gush about a young player the way that he did about McQuistan. It was extremely out of the ordinary for him to go out of his way to compliment and build a guy up like that. To use a Parcellism, "He's stayin'". That's all there is to it.

        As for Marten and Free, I think one of them is going to have to have the versatility to be the swing tackle, in order for us to keep them activated on game day. I really wouldn't be surprised to see one of those guys get cut in camp. I know it's unusual, but with our oline like it is, that's how I feel.

        Here is the number crunch:

        Adams/Kosier/Gurode/Davis/Colombo= 5
        McQuistan backup G/T =6
        Proctor backup C/G = 7


        That leaves either one or two more spots for O-line. If both Free AND Marten play well in camp, that would leave them as backup LT and RT, with one of them needing to be able to swing back and forth for game day. I think both will make the team, and that my scenario above will ultimately play out.
        Originally posted by 21ST
        He was protecting his self
        Originally posted by tjsunstein
        From what? His leg?
        Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck
        That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
        "We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

        DeMarcus Ware

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by robert_in_bigd View Post
          Did I just not say this on this very thread?
          Yep, while I was typing my response to thule. Want a cookie?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by robert_in_bigd View Post
            Last I checked 53 don't play on Sunday.
            That's not what I'm saying. The game day roster changes week to week based of health, opponent, game plan, who's doing well, etc. etc.

            So I have no idea why you are trying to narrow down to a 45 man roster now. You wouldn't even be able to do it on the morning of game day.

            We keep 53 men on the active roster. Discuss that. It makes entirely more sense.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by jdnoyes View Post
              Yep, while I was typing my response to thule. Want a cookie?

              LOL. Ya. Sure. Anyway.

              Comment


              • #52
                There is no way a 3rd round pick just gets cut. I expect Free and Marten to both, easily, make the team. Ireland said they are both for the future. They will both easily kick out Proctor or McQuistan if they have to. Some people have 8 offensive lineman active on sundays. For instance, San Diego had 8 active last year. I think they will all be on the 53 man roster, maybe Proctor gets cut. Free was great value, and should have been a late 2nd rounder, and Marten was a 3rd rounder. I don't think they will be cut.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by DMWSackMachine View Post
                  I think people are waaaaaaaaay undervaluing McQuistan's place on this team. If you'll recall, this guy was the story during training camp last year. From all reports, he has the ability to be a quality starter at one of the 3 most important positions on the team (LT). Not only that, but you'll recall that Jerry, going into the off-season, was telling his coaching staff that "McQuistan has got to be ready to start" next year. Does that sound like someone who is a borderline guy that might get cut? No, it doesn't.

                  In my mind, Pat is the future at LT until further notice. It's that simple. I have never heard Parcells gush about a young player the way that he did about McQuistan. It was extremely out of the ordinary for him to go out of his way to compliment and build a guy up like that. To use a Parcellism, "He's stayin'". That's all there is to it.

                  As for Marten and Free, I think one of them is going to have to have the versatility to be the swing tackle, in order for us to keep them activated on game day. I really wouldn't be surprised to see one of those guys get cut in camp. I know it's unusual, but with our oline like it is, that's how I feel.

                  Here is the number crunch:

                  Adams/Kosier/Gurode/Davis/Colombo= 5
                  McQuistan backup G/T =6
                  Proctor backup C/G = 7


                  That leaves either one or two more spots for O-line. If both Free AND Marten play well in camp, that would leave them as backup LT and RT, with one of them needing to be able to swing back and forth for game day. I think both will make the team, and that my scenario above will ultimately play out.
                  Marten has the skillset to be our swing guy. I'm not discounting McQ at all really...atleast in my mind...it might come out that way when I type. McQ is just at a disadvantage...because like I said if he for some reason cannot outplay Free on the outside...he is in a world of hurt. He would essentially have to outperform Marten on the inside...Proctor on the inside...and even if he was better than Proctor would he have the versatility to play the center position in a pinch. Those are the questions that I have with McQ. I also am curious to see if he has the ability to play the right side. Marten showed that he could play everywhere...I haven't seen that from McQ.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                    That's not what I'm saying. The game day roster changes week to week based of health, opponent, game plan, who's doing well, etc. etc.

                    So I have no idea why you are trying to narrow down to a 45 man roster now. You wouldn't even be able to do it on the morning of game day.

                    We keep 53 men on the active roster. Discuss that. It makes entirely more sense.
                    He's determined to prove that our draft sucked even though TC hasn't even started yet. If he rationally took a look at the 53 man roster instead of ripping our draft picks he'd realize 7 out of 8 will probably make the final 53 barring injury.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      BP gushed about Pettiti too, and look where that got him. I think McQuistan will make it as a versitile backup T/G, and I think he'll be active. But he could just as well be with another team, you never know what TC will bring.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        robert, offensive linemen are not players you take to contribute immediately. I've said that before. Look at the Eagles. They arguably have the best OL in the NFC and have you noticed nothing? Because I have, and I'll show you:

                        LT: William Thomas - Winston Justice (picked last year in the second, didn't play a single snap, he wasn't even active for some games)
                        LG: Todd Herremans (was in practice squad his first year, played in only 4 games before starting all 16 games in his second season)
                        C: Jamaal Jackson (practice squad guy. Didn't start until his 4th year)
                        RG: Shwan Andrews (played 1 game in his rookie season and he was the SIXTEENTH OVERALL PICK)
                        RT: John Runyan (didn't start until his second season. They still miss a guy to replace him tough).

                        We do need to to grow up our OL. To do that you have to pick a guy who is not gonna contribute for 1 year and sometimes even more. You can't pick an OL and make him starting from his first game. Only a few number of players could start in their rookie season and play well.
                        So because we had to grow up a good line, we had to spend our picks on guys like Marten and Free, who both have very good starting potential.

                        I really don't know how you can say that Marten is gonna be PS! He was regarded as the best RT in the draft, he's a mauler and a very versatile player. We don't if he will make the roster, but right now the odds say YES for sure. He was a 3rd round pick, you don't put 3rd round picks in PS, you give them a chance, and they need at least 1 year to prove you if they were the right choice. If you put a 3rd round pick on PS, he will be picked IMMEDIATELY by another team. And that's the same thing for Free, who was regarded (firs by Kiper) as a guy with 2nd round potential.

                        If there's an OT who can be PS is more likely McQuistan. I know that the coaching staff was high on him, that he make a great block on the Austin return against Seattle, but he's the only guy of our 5 tackles who can be on PS and not be picked immediately by another team. And last year Sparano and Parcells seemed high on Petitti and his progressione, we all know how it ended up.

                        So I don't know how you can "hate" so much the Marten and Free picks. We do need offensive linemen, we do need 2 tackles with starting potential (Flozell is on the end of his career, and you don't know if Colombo was only a one year wonder). But having this need didn't allow you to pick a guy who can contribuite immediately, you have to wait. This strategy worked pretty well with the Eagles.

                        P.S.: Sorry for the grammar, but it's 1.30 a.m and I'm a little tired.


                        In Bob We Trust

                        John Madden's wedding video business

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ddPHJWkPvU

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Then you are out of your mind. A person's draft status is only the deciding factor on organizations that are perennial losers, and it's a big reason why, too. How a person plays should be/is the only factor in deciding whether they stay or not. McQuistan, imo, is as good a prospect as any of the tackles not named Thomas, Brown or Staley in this year's draft. He is that good, and will not be cut unless something extremely unlikely develops. Meanwhile, Marten was a stretch in the early 3rd, and Free was a borderline day 1 guy. I would take McQuistan in the draft 100x out of 100 over either one of those guys.

                          The organization knows that Pat has a lot to offer, Parcells was outspoken in his evaluation and estimation of his future promise as a player, and we're not just going to throw that away. It is much, much, more likely that we will be able to slip a guy that went to some small time school and wasn't drafted until late in the 4th round onto our practice squad, then a guy that has had a full year in the NFL, with a highly successful training camp, preseason, and some fill in on the regular season to show teams.

                          McQuistan is staying. Free or Marten would be cut before him. You guys are letting your draft fever cloud your ability to evaluate the players. You're seeing a 3rd rounder and a 4th rounder competing with a second year 7th rounder for a roster spot, instead of seeing James Marten and Doug Free competing with Pat McQuistan. Again, McQuistan is staying. I will be happy to place a sig bet with anyone on this topic.
                          Originally posted by 21ST
                          He was protecting his self
                          Originally posted by tjsunstein
                          From what? His leg?
                          Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck
                          That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
                          "We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

                          DeMarcus Ware

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Modano View Post
                            robert, offensive linemen are not players you take to contribute immediately. I've said that before. Look at the Eagles. They arguably have the best OL in the NFC and have you noticed nothing? Because I have, and I'll show you:

                            LT: William Thomas - Winston Justice (picked last year in the second, didn't play a single snap, he wasn't even active for some games)
                            LG: Todd Herremans (was in practice squad his first year, played in only 4 games before starting all 16 games in his second season)
                            C: Jamaal Jackson (practice squad guy. Didn't start until his 4th year)
                            RG: Shwan Andrews (played 1 game in his rookie season and he was the SIXTEENTH OVERALL PICK)
                            RT: John Runyan (didn't start until his second season. They still miss a guy to replace him tough).

                            We do need to to grow up our OL. To do that you have to pick a guy who is not gonna contribute for 1 year and sometimes even more. You can't pick an OL and make him starting from his first game. Only a few number of players could start in their rookie season and play well.
                            So because we had to grow up a good line, we had to spend our picks on guys like Marten and Free, who both have very good starting potential.

                            I really don't know how you can say that Marten is gonna be PS! He was regarded as the best RT in the draft, he's a mauler and a very versatile player. We don't if he will make the roster, but right now the odds say YES for sure. He was a 3rd round pick, you don't put 3rd round picks in PS, you give them a chance, and they need at least 1 year to prove you if they were the right choice. If you put a 3rd round pick on PS, he will be picked IMMEDIATELY by another team. And that's the same thing for Free, who was regarded (firs by Kiper) as a guy with 2nd round potential.

                            If there's an OT who can be PS is more likely McQuistan. I know that the coaching staff was high on him, that he make a great block on the Austin return against Seattle, but he's the only guy of our 5 tackles who can be on PS and not be picked immediately by another team. And last year Sparano and Parcells seemed high on Petitti and his progressione, we all know how it ended up.

                            So I don't know how you can "hate" so much the Marten and Free picks. We do need offensive linemen, we do need 2 tackles with starting potential (Flozell is on the end of his career, and you don't know if Colombo was only a one year wonder). But having this need didn't allow you to pick a guy who can contribuite immediately, you have to wait. This strategy worked pretty well with the Eagles.

                            P.S.: Sorry for the grammar, but it's 1.30 a.m and I'm a little tired.
                            I like Marten and Free. What is the beef?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by jdnoyes View Post
                              BP gushed about Pettiti too, and look where that got him. I think McQuistan will make it as a versitile backup T/G, and I think he'll be active. But he could just as well be with another team, you never know what TC will bring.
                              Wrong. Parcells was complimentary of two things: 1) Rob's work ethic in getting himself together physically and 2) his feet in a comparison that he made with a young Jason Fabini. That was basically it. The press was trying to get Bill to open up about Pettiti, but all Parcells would do is deflect the question and say that "he has a chance". Nothing close to the way he acted with Pat.
                              Originally posted by 21ST
                              He was protecting his self
                              Originally posted by tjsunstein
                              From what? His leg?
                              Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck
                              That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
                              "We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

                              DeMarcus Ware

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Marten and Free are great. It should put us in a good position on the offensive in the future. I hope we take a guard next year, boot Kosiar out, or just for the future as well.

                                Anyway, Robert in big d, why are you so pissed at this draft? Spencer, and the Browns pick next year makes it a B to B+ on its own. Add 2 future quality o-lineman, a great slasher, and some good developmental CBs, and I say A-.

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