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  • Originally posted by njx9
    wait. what? why would mayock put ANYTHING into what bowers did as a high school player? i can't think of anything less relevant to his future pro performance (except, maybe, his pop warner numbers). he *was* apparently a one year wonder in college. by your own admission. if you don't think that matters, that's one thing, but to try to argue that he *wasn't* based on high school stats is, well, silly.
    this is how i see it. Joe mcknight never put up elite numbers at usc. let's say he does nothing his first two years, despite getting some pt. Now, lets say all of a sudden, he puts up 1500 yards and 15+ TD's his junior year, and then declared, i would't invision people labeling him a 1 year wonder. it doesn't seem right to me, no matter if he just had 1 good college season. no former top 5 h.s. player, in my mind, deserves that label

    and no, bowers was not a one year wonder. he was arguably a one year wonder, by some people's admission. i'm not willing to debate over stats right now, and partially recant supporting the fact that he isn't a 1yw with high school stats. BUT he was solid for at least 2 years. i've just never heard of someone labeling a somebody a one year wonder after arguably just one good season when they were previously a top 10 recruit. i just can't remember the last time i've heard that, nor do i think it makes sense. usually, guys who were super elite in high school, on the same level as Joe McKnight in terms of national recognition, aren't labeled like that. people don't wonder if they have elite talent. back to the stats, I was simply using a few offensive numbers to lightly reinforce the idea that he has always been an athletic freak who has produced, albiet in high school.

    still, the main idea remains, when was the last time you heard of a top 10 high school recruit get the one year wonder label? it just seems odd.
    Last edited by Jimmy; 02-22-2011, 02:04 PM.

    Comment


    • some thoughts a day later...it's a "w/e" argument that you shouldn't waste your time on, nor will i waste my time defending after this. i'm not going to argue that high school stats count as production at the college level because that's... well... pointless. i'm just going to stick with the above idea that it just "feels odd" that mayock would label a guy who was a former all american is being labeled a 1yw. that's all.
      Last edited by Jimmy; 02-22-2011, 02:06 PM.

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      • Originally posted by njx9
        wait. what? why would mayock put ANYTHING into what bowers did as a high school player? i can't think of anything less relevant to his future pro performance (except, maybe, his pop warner numbers)
        just to add on though, contradicting everything i said about not wanting to continue this... i will point out (once again with a mcknight reference)
        that Mayock, Kiper and Scott all put SOMETHING into what McKnight did as a high school player, otherwise they wouldn't have him ranked so high. you can argue mcknight is a freak, but i'd argue bowers isn't far off position wise. His performance at USC didn't merit that high of a look. so why shouldn't they put anything into Bowers?

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        • The DP suggests that the Broncos take a hard look at Von Miller of A&M. He was never on my radar, despite his production throughout college.

          The article I read argued that he was a player, who, because of his consistency in college as a pass rusher, would transition well to the NFL. We could expect him to have similar numbers in the pros. Any thoughts?

          My preferences personally are Bowers and Dareus, with Fairley and Paterson close behind.

          Projected win total: 55+

          Comment


          • Von would play perhaps the one position on defense that I feel good about (WLB).

            Comment


            • Champ stays

              The deal is done.

              http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-an...9-1189d913686b

              It appears the new regime made a big difference in this decision.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by njx9
                i'm smiling for what might be the first time all year regarding denver sports. all right, second time, considering we fired mcdaniels.

                though this only makes me want peterson more.
                but dude! what about the front seven!
                Now the only ones I take are the ones that I wear
                Ain't takin no shorts no more

                Comment


                • Originally posted by njx9
                  spend every pick after round one on it. seriously.
                  we definitely need help at defensive tackle and mlb.

                  can you imagine haggan or mays playing in the middle? hell, even having dj there makes me want to cry
                  Now the only ones I take are the ones that I wear
                  Ain't takin no shorts no more

                  Comment


                  • Please if we get Peterson we'll still get abused. Just that we'll get abused on the ground or after the 10 secs a QB has to look for an open guy.
                    But I'm thrilled he's back

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DBNYDP View Post
                      Please if we get Peterson we'll still get abused. Just that we'll get abused on the ground or after the 10 secs a QB has to look for an open guy.
                      But I'm thrilled he's back
                      yeah, if you didn't notice, last year's defense was atrocious. it's not going to be fixed in one year. let's stop pretending that drafting a dl with every single pick would change that.

                      we need talent at all levels. look at all of the best defenses in the league. the jets, ravens, steelers, and packers all have at least one stud defensive back. we don't have that guy right now (no, a 33 year old champ doesn't count), and we have the perfect opportunity to get one with peterson.
                      Now the only ones I take are the ones that I wear
                      Ain't takin no shorts no more

                      Comment


                      • yeah, if you didn't notice, last year's defense was atrocious. it's not going to be fixed in one year. let's stop pretending that drafting a dl with every single pick would change that.
                        Where did I say our defense was going to be fixed in a year? We have very little talent in the front 7 and it takes time to build quality players/depth there.

                        we need talent at all levels. look at all of the best defenses in the league. the jets, ravens, steelers, and packers all have at least one stud defensive back. we don't have that guy right now (no, a 33 year old champ doesn't count), and we have the perfect opportunity to get one with peterson.
                        You really are kidding yourself if you don't think front 7 has a bigger role in those teams success. They also have some of the biggest studs in the front 7, and especially on their defensive line e.g Ngata/Raji/Jenkins (when healthy)/Hampton. They have great linebackers Lewis, Suggs, Matthews, Harris, Harrison, and Woodley.
                        The talent that they have in their front 7 is immense and the depth is outstanding...

                        I'm not going to deny that someone like Polamalu has a huge impact for the Steelers just because as a roaming safety we've seen how many plays he can make. But frankly that is at safety. I'll say it again and again, corners do not have the impact that other plays like safeties/tackles/linebackers/ends have. Now you may want to convert Peterson which might be a good idea but that would mean you literally are drafting him for his athletic talent and hope he learns a position that requires a lot of football knowledge and decision making ability. As a corner he simply won't have the impact Fairley or Dareus or even Bowers will have. He won't help us a whole lot against the run. Nor will he be able to lock his man down for ever if the QB still has all day to throw.

                        NJX made a great point, we have more than one draft pick, lets use the rest on defensive linemen! Too bad the drop off is still considerable from the 1st to the second and so forward. We need two tackles, an end is probably a good idea, and probably 2 linebackers. All that with just 3 picks. Not to mention the gap we will still have at safety (we could get Moore/McDaniels/Carter in the second, and possibly get that huge playmaker). Oh and most likely we will want to try to fill out the blindside tackle spot asap as well. Oh and if we have other picks to use, why not simply get a corner later in the draft? The same logic applies there, and we might actually get a safer pick later (some do question Peterson's ability to be a corner because of his weight) in someone like Johnny Patrick or Davon House.

                        Right now the defensive line is the biggest need and there will be high quality linemen available when we pick. Secondary might still be an issue, especially the cornerback position but if we have Goodman next year, we are fine for the position for now. Add in the fact that Cox has shown good play at times (keep in mind it takes time for corners to come into their own generally), it is not close to our biggest need. Then you might comeback with HEY BUT PETERSON IS THE BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE,and I'd say that is the same logic that got Millen in so much trouble. There is a point where you need to fill your biggest needs.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DBNYDP View Post
                          Where did I say our defense was going to be fixed in a year? We have very little talent in the front 7 and it takes time to build quality players/depth there.


                          You really are kidding yourself if you don't think front 7 has a bigger role in those teams success. They also have some of the biggest studs in the front 7, and especially on their defensive line e.g Ngata/Raji/Jenkins (when healthy)/Hampton. They have great linebackers Lewis, Suggs, Matthews, Harris, Harrison, and Woodley.
                          The talent that they have in their front 7 is immense and the depth is outstanding...

                          I'm not going to deny that someone like Polamalu has a huge impact for the Steelers just because as a roaming safety we've seen how many plays he can make. But frankly that is at safety. I'll say it again and again, corners do not have the impact that other plays like safeties/tackles/linebackers/ends have. Now you may want to convert Peterson which might be a good idea but that would mean you literally are drafting him for his athletic talent and hope he learns a position that requires a lot of football knowledge and decision making ability. As a corner he simply won't have the impact Fairley or Dareus or even Bowers will have. He won't help us a whole lot against the run. Nor will he be able to lock his man down for ever if the QB still has all day to throw.

                          NJX made a great point, we have more than one draft pick, lets use the rest on defensive linemen! Too bad the drop off is still considerable from the 1st to the second and so forward. We need two tackles, an end is probably a good idea, and probably 2 linebackers. All that with just 3 picks. Not to mention the gap we will still have at safety (we could get Moore/McDaniels/Carter in the second, and possibly get that huge playmaker). Oh and most likely we will want to try to fill out the blindside tackle spot asap as well. Oh and if we have other picks to use, why not simply get a corner later in the draft? The same logic applies there, and we might actually get a safer pick later (some do question Peterson's ability to be a corner because of his weight) in someone like Johnny Patrick or Davon House.

                          Right now the defensive line is the biggest need and there will be high quality linemen available when we pick. Secondary might still be an issue, especially the cornerback position but if we have Goodman next year, we are fine for the position for now. Add in the fact that Cox has shown good play at times (keep in mind it takes time for corners to come into their own generally), it is not close to our biggest need. Then you might comeback with HEY BUT PETERSON IS THE BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE,and I'd say that is the same logic that got Millen in so much trouble. There is a point where you need to fill your biggest needs.
                          not going to address the whole thing, because njx already made SOME GREAT POINTS, but you said before...

                          Please if we get Peterson we'll still get abused. Just that we'll get abused on the ground or after the 10 secs a QB has to look for an open guy
                          let's say you weren't talking about next season. who are you to say that we'll still be abused on defense, let's say in the '12 or '13 season, because we took peterson instead of a dl? you're not taking anything else into consideration when you make a claim like that.

                          also, please stop with the front seven ****. find me one person who believes or has made a statement indicating that having a good secondary is more important than having a good front seven.
                          Now the only ones I take are the ones that I wear
                          Ain't takin no shorts no more

                          Comment


                          • And why not get Peterson this year and wait for Jenkins or Kilpatrick next year? Two prospects that have pretty high upsides but aren't as risky at Peterson is?

                            We need top talent in the front 7 now, and frankly I don't see great linemen like we have in this draft in the next couple years

                            Next year is deeper at corner so why not wait..
                            And we can arguably turn this ship around to maybe a team that can break even if we dramatically improve our front 7. It takes a lot of time and a lot of picks to build the front 7.

                            We have a nice CB crew right now, I'd like to give them a shot before we go using the 2nd pick of the draft there.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DBNYDP View Post
                              And why not get Peterson this year and wait for Jenkins or Kilpatrick next year? Two prospects that have pretty high upsides but aren't as risky at Peterson is?

                              We need top talent in the front 7 now, and frankly I don't see great linemen like we have in this draft in the next couple years

                              Next year is deeper at corner so why not wait..
                              And we can arguably turn this ship around to maybe a team that can break even if we dramatically improve our front 7. It takes a lot of time and a lot of picks to build the front 7.

                              We have a nice CB crew right now, I'd like to give them a shot before we go using the 2nd pick of the draft there.
                              you've probably already said it somewhere, but who would you want out of the dl for our first pick?
                              Now the only ones I take are the ones that I wear
                              Ain't takin no shorts no more

                              Comment


                              • Wow. I really thought he wanted a championship. The loyalty of that guy. So awesome.

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