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  • What players on your team are the biggest disappointments?

    What are your top 3 needs?


    • Originally posted by njx9
      both guards. which answers both questions.

      dbs. yeah, yeah, champ is still pretty good. but he's not a shutdown corner and he's lost his speed. if possible, i'd rather he play safety with dawkins. i love goodman, but realistically, only because he's not dre bly. he'd probably be better as a nickel. i still think alphonso smith is utterly worthless and should be a quarter-back at best, but others here will likely disagree. *shrug*

      lb's probably still a need. as much as i like the group we have, we could probably upgrade everything but dumervil.

      it'd be nice to have a NT, but really, fields has done a pretty good job.

      LE/RE, but given that it sounds like you're building a mock, i wouldn't rate either as a first round need.
      Pretty good assessment above.

      Guards are probably the biggest need, however, if you are building a mock it is unlikely that you would take one in the first round.

      The entire d-line is solid, but none dominate. If there were the opportunity to take a dominant player there then that would be great, however, they certainly shouldnt be taking a d-lineman just for the sake of it.

      ILB is probably a big need as well. Andra Davis is 30 and it is still not clear whether he just needed to lose weight and get out of Cleveland to become useful, or if he is just playing above himself right now.


      • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
        What players on your team are the biggest disappointments?
        Obviously we've got a lot of guys playing better than expected, so the disappointments are few and far between. However, Hillis riding the pine is unfortunate... and whatever perceived prejudice McD might have against the FB position matters little when Hillis is making bonehead plays on the field. Ben Hamilton is another questionable player - fine in pass protect, but he's getting no push in the running game.

        What are your top 3 needs?
        Interior OL
        Depth at CB (particularly important with the old guys)
        Upgrades at ILB and DE

        Depending on how the kicking situation works out I could see both P and K being needs as well.


        • Bradford would be perfect for this offense. But with Orton only being 26, I don't see QB being a first round need, as long as he can keep up what he's doing.


          • Bradford would be an awesome fit and I would love for him to be a Bronco. I just doubt it happens if Orton keeps this up.

            Sig by the sigmaster BoneKrusher. Each one is a masterpiece
            Originally posted by BaLLiN72
            i wish NFLDC had something like "wall to wall" where we could see Brodeur and Job's conversations.
            Originally posted by Job
            NFLDC would be jizzing itself non-stop.


            • I'd do everything to upgrade,because Orton just doesn't have the physical tools to be a franchise QB,IMO

              mucho props to wiscbadgerfootball

              Originally posted by scottyboy
              like honestly lebron, instead of south beach, why don't you take your talents and just shove them up your ass.


              • So question who is a bigger waste of pick so far? Ayers or Smith


                • Originally posted by bhaarat316 View Post
                  So question who is a bigger waste of pick so far? Ayers or Smith
                  Since Ayers has been improving every game and looked really good in the second half against SD, giving us that companion outside pass rusher to go with Doom, I'd question why he'd even be up for consideration as a "waste"...

                  Smith is the other way around - played well at the start, then got hurt and hasn't shown much since.


                  • Forum Mock update. Denver didn't have a representative so I filled in for the untaken team.

                    Move 1: Traded 2nd Round pick for RB Tashard Choice and ILB Bradie James.
                    Reasoning: I felt like this move gave me 2 sure things compared to a 2nd round gamble. Solidifying RB and adding another 3-4 vet for depth/leadership.

                    Move 2: First Round (15 pick) - QB Sam Bradford, Oklahoma.
                    Reasoning: I think Josh McDaniels' system is one of the few in the NFL that would be a good fit for Bradford. Orton will still lead the way until he flames out and Bradford is ready.

                    Move 3: Traded S Renaldo Hill and Third Round pick (94) to Minnesota for OG Anthony Herrera and Third Round pick (71).
                    Reasoning: Wanted to move up in Round 3 and felt like this was a big jump. Herrera has been a solid road grader for Adrian Peterson and I felt like he would at least improve the current situation at RG. I sacrificed Hill to get it done, but felt like between McBath and Bruton, one of the two could emerge.

                    Move 4: Traded CB Champ Bailey, TE Daniel Graham, 7th Round Pick to Baltimore for OG Chris Chester, DE Trevor Pryce and a 4th Rounder.
                    Reasoning: Kind of felt from the comments by njx that Bailey's days as a corner are numbered. Felt like trading him now was the best chance to get whatever remaining value he had left. I really like Chris Chester's versatility at OG and C and think he's been developed very well in Baltimore. With the emphasis that OG was a need, I felt like Chester could be a long term, key cog at LG as he's still young and has prime years left. Pryce returns to Denver with 3-4 experience in Mike Nolan's scheme. He's continued to produce at a high level in Baltimore and he'll finish his career out here while being a leader and teacher for the younger guys. The 4th rounder sweetened the pot and made it easier to pull the trigger.

                    Move 5: Third Round (pick 71) - CB Syd'Quan Thompson, Cal.
                    Reasoning: With trading Champ Bailey, I wanted to address the CB spot. Thompson has the track record and consistency that proved to me that he can be a big time playmaker in the mold of Asante Samuel.

                    This was just a 3 round draft. Must say, I had fun managing your team. Hopefully, you don't chop my head off.
                    Last edited by D-Unit; 11-05-2009, 01:48 AM.


                    • Originally posted by njx9
                      but you almost had to know that i'd disagree with nearly everything anyways =P

                      listed in the same order you used:

                      1 - i don't get the Choice trade. i mean, he's pretty good. but he'd be buried at #2 on the depth chart here, and that's assuming that he wasn't also behind buckhalter (i think choice is a better runner, but i know nothing about him as a receiver). bradie james is a meh. from the limited amount i've seen, i'd rather have a second and andra davis.

                      2 - i like bradford, and i think (though it hasn't been heavily discussed) i'm one of the few. i think he'd be perfect in this offense, and i think it's clear that orton can be a great guy to have for a couple of years, but a guy who can't throw 20 yards downfield is simply not the answer. i don't think bradford has a huge arm, but i think his arm is certainly better than orton's (i'm sort of assuming that all of this checks out pre-draft, and that he hasn't been turned into pennington by the injury).

                      3 - *shrug* i could live with it. anything would upgrade hamilton right now, and it makes a big difference on the offense to not be able to run between the tackles ever. assuming mcbath or bruton shows something the rest of this season, i wouldn't hate this.

                      4 - i think bailey's value may be limited, but i don't think this is a good trade for us (as much as that seems close to bailey's true value, sadly). giving up bailey and graham is a high price for a G and 78 year old DE and fully depletes our talent at CB (which we'll get to in 5). we do NEED a g. but i don't think there's a lot of value in pryce here, and unless richard-stupid-draft-pick-quinn figures out how to play nfl football, this would leave us without any capable blocking tes.

                      5 - unfortunately, this combination means that teams would be putting up 400 yards per game on us in the air. as much as champ has lost a step, teams still seem to, if not fear him, at least take into account where he is. further, and the reason i'd like him at S, his tackling ability and ability to read plays is still top notch. it would.... hurt to lose that sure tackle on the outside when we happen to blitz heavily.


                      based on what we told you, not bad.
                      Thanks. I have no problems with the critique and appreciate the thoughtful response. The intention for Choice is not to be buried as the #2. I think in a committee approach, which he is fully accustomed to, he would have a bigger impact than "being buried on the bench". I chose him because he's a good inside runner, something I'm not fully convinced that Moreno is. He also has soft hands receiving the ball and has improved his blitz pick up, though he's not on the level of Barber. As for Buckhalter, this has probably been a career year for him, but I don't see it lasting long. James is a little more than "meh", as he's coming off a 117 tackle, 8 sack, 3 FF, 4 PD season last year. This is his 7th year in the league and he has good experience for a team in transition to the 3-4. While not a young stud, the ILB draft class is weak if you don't grab one in Round 1.

                      I know Pryce is old, but he does understand the nuances of Nolan's system. He's still putting up better numbers and is a key member of a good Baltimore defense. I don't expect to get more than a couple years out of him... probably the same that Bailey would give. I wanted to draft a young DE, but the opportunity in the draft just didn't fit the value. I probably would've addressed this if I didn't make the trade for Choice/James. But again, I tried to avoid any bust factors.

                      As for Thompson, I think he'll be a stud in the NFL one day. If there was a FA period, I would've made CB a top priority. I knew the thought of Smith and Thompson starting is a pretty scary idea and wouldn't be well received.


                      • Here's how the draft went.

                        1. St. Louis Rams - Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska
                        2. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Eric Berry, DB, Tennessee
                        3. Tennessee Titans - Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma
                        4. Cleveland Browns - Jake Locker, QB, Washington
                        5. Oakland Raiders - (f/ Kansas City) - Jimmy Clausen, QB, Notre Dame
                        6. San Diego Chargers (f/ Detroit) - Taylor Mays, DB, USC
                        7. Kansas City (f/ Oakland) - Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State
                        8. Houston Texans (f/ Washington) - Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma State
                        9. San Francisco 49ers (f/ Carolina) - Joe Haden, CB, Florida
                        10. Seattle Seahawks - CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson
                        11. Miami Dolphins - Rolando McClain, LB, Alabama
                        12. Buffalo Bills - Anthony Davis, OT, Rutgers
                        13. Jacksonville Jaguars - Greg Hardy, DE/OLB, Ole Miss
                        14. Baltimore Ravens (f/ San Francisco) - Sergio Kindle, DE/OLB, Texas
                        15. Denver Broncos (f/ Chicago) - Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma
                        16. San Francisco 49ers (f/ Baltimore) - Trent Williams, OT, Oklahoma
                        17. New England (f/Baltimore) - Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida
                        18. Washington Redskins (f/ Houston) - Bryan Bulaga, OT, Iowa
                        19. New York Jets - Arthur Jones, DT, Syacuse
                        20. Green Bay Packers - Bruce Campbell, OT, Maryland
                        21. Philadelphia Eagles - Sean Weatherspoon, LB, Missouri
                        22. Atlanta Falcons - Patrick Robinson, CB, Florida State
                        23. Dallas Cowboys - Allen Bailey, DL, Miami
                        24. New York Jets (f/ Arizona) - Brandon Graham, DE/OLB, Michigan
                        25. New York Giants - Reshad Jones, S, Georgia
                        26. Pittsburgh Steelers - Jerry Hughes, DE/OLB, TCU
                        27. Cincinnati Bengals - Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma
                        28. New England Patriots - Corey Wootton, DE, Northwestern
                        29. Minnesota Vikings - Travis Lewis, OLB, Oklahoma
                        30. Seattle Seahawks (f/ Denver) - Charles Brown, OT, USC
                        31. Green Bay Packers (f/ New Orleans) - Jahvid Best, RB, California
                        32. Indianapolis Colts - Everson Griffen, DE, USC

                        33. Cleveland Browns (f/ St Louis) - Jonathan Dwyer, RB, Georgia Tech
                        34. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Derrick Morgan, DE, Georgia Tech
                        35. Baltimore Ravens (f/ New England) - Terrence Cody, DT, Alabama
                        36. Cleveland Browns - Eric Norwood, DE/OLB, South Carolina
                        37. Kansas City Chiefs - Arrelious Benn, WR, Illinois
                        38. Washington Redskins (f/ Detroit) - Deymarius Thomas, WR, Georgia Tech
                        39. Oakland Raiders - Marvin Austin, DT, North Carolina
                        40. Washington Redskins - Ciron Black, OT, LSU
                        41. Carolina Panthers - Brandon Lafell, WR, LSU
                        42. Seattle Seahawks - Perrish Cox, CB, Oklahoma St.
                        43. Miami Dolphins - Damian Williams, WR, USC
                        44. Buffalo Bills - Brian Price, DT, UCLA
                        45. Baltimore Ravens (f/ New England) - Golden Tate, WR, Notre Dame
                        46. San Francisco 49ers - Ricky Sapp, DE/OLB, Clemson
                        47. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Vince Oghobaase, DT, Duke
                        48. San Diego Chargers - Tyson Alualu, DE, California
                        49. Detroit Lions (f/ Baltimore) - Selvish Capers, OT, West Virginia
                        50. Cleveland Browns (f/ Chicago) - Mike Iupati, OG, Idaho
                        51. Arizona Cardinals (f/ New York Jets) - Carlos Dunlap, DE, Florida
                        52. Green Bay Packers - Morgan Burnett, S, Georgia Tech
                        53. Philadelphia Eagles - Jason Fox, OT, Miami
                        54. Kansas City Chiefs (f/ Atlanta) - Kristopher O'Dowd, OC, USC
                        55. Dallas Cowboys - Nate Allen, S, South Florida
                        56. Arizona Cardinals - Rodney Hudson, OG, Florida State
                        57. New York Giants - Matt Tennant, OC, Boston College
                        58. Oakland Raiders (f/ Pittsburgh) - Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, USF
                        59. Cincinnati Bengals - Darrell Stuckey, S, Kansas
                        60. Detroit Lions (f/ New England Patriots) - Mardy Gilyard, WR, Cincinnati
                        61. Minnesota Vikings - Colt McCoy, QB, Texas
                        62. Dallas Cowboys (f/ Denver) - Dan Williams, DT, Tennessee
                        63. Green Bay Packers (f/ New Orleans) - Jared Odrick, DL, Penn State
                        64. Indianapolis Colts - Donovan Warren, CB, Michigan

                        65. St. Louis Rams - Tony Washington, OT, Abilene Christian
                        66. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Eric Decker, WR, Minnesota
                        67. Tennessee Titans - Quan Sturdivant, ILB, North Carolina
                        68. Cleveland Browns - Anthony McCoy, TE, USC
                        69. Kansas City Chiefs - Brandon Lang, DE/OLB, Troy
                        70. New England Patriots (f/Detroit) - Ryan Mathews, RB, Fresno State
                        71. Denver Broncos (f/ Oakland via Minnesota) - Syd'Quan Thompson, CB, California
                        72. Washington Redskins (Pick forfeited due to Jeremy Jarmon selection)
                        73. Carolina Panthers - Tim Tebow, QB, Florida
                        74. Philadelphia Eagles (f/ Seattle) - Noel Devine, RB, West Virginia
                        75. Miami Dolphins - George Selvie, DE/OLB, USF
                        76. Buffalo Bills - QB Tony Pike, Cincinnati
                        77. Jacksonville Jaguars - Mike Neal, DT, Purdue
                        78. Indianapolis Colts (f/ San Francisco) - Daryl Washington, ILB, Texas Christian
                        79. Washington Redskins (f/ Chicago) - Joe McKnight, RB, USC
                        80. Cincinnati Bengals (f/ San Diego) - Brandon Ghee, CB, Wake Forest
                        81. Detroit Lions (f/ Baltimore) - Mike Johnson, OG, Alabama
                        82. Houston Texans - Myron Lewis, CB, Vanderbilt
                        83. Cleveland Browns (f/ New York Jets) - Kyle Calloway, OT, Iowa
                        84. Green Bay Packers
                        85. Philadelphia Eagles
                        86. Atlanta Falcons
                        87. Dallas Cowboys
                        88. Arizona Cardinals
                        89. New York Giants
                        90. Pittsburgh Steelers
                        91. San Diego (f/ Cincinnati)
                        92. Pittsburgh Steelers (f/ Oakland)
                        93. Pittsburgh Steelers (f/ Oakland)
                        94. Minnesota Vikings (f/ Denver)
                        95. Miami Dolphins (f/ New Orleans)
                        96. Indianapolis Colts
                        Last edited by D-Unit; 11-06-2009, 10:44 AM.


                        • Move 1: Traded 2nd Round pick for RB Tashard Choice and ILB Bradie James.
                          Both Andra Davis and Correll Buckhalter have played well for us. James may be an upgrade to Davis, and Choice more durable than Buckhalter... but is that enough to justify spending a second?

                          In some ways drafting an ILB makes more sense than trading for a veteran, as we could develop them to replace one of our starting guys in a few years.

                          Move 2: First Round (15 pick) - QB Sam Bradford, Oklahoma.
                          I'd be very leery of this move. People gripe about Orton's arm, but Bradford isn't bringing a cannon to the table either. My main concern are the injuries, though. A QB has to be able to take a hit. Sure, he'd get to play out of the shotgun here, but let's not confuse "formation" with "system". McD's offense is a totally different animal than the easy reads & throws that OK's system emphasizes.

                          Move 3: Traded S Renaldo Hill and Third Round pick (94) to Minnesota for OG Anthony Herrera and Third Round pick (71).
                          Dawkins may be our inspirational leader, but Hill is our field general. He's one of the key guys who works with the coaching staff on the halftime defensive adjustments. I'd hate to lose him.

                          That being said, we definitely need the help at OG.

                          Move 4: Traded CB Champ Bailey, TE Daniel Graham, 7th Round Pick to Baltimore for OG Chris Chester, DE Trevor Pryce and a 4th Rounder.
                          I like Chris Chester, and glad he got his chance with Yanda out, but this would be a tough trade. Losing both Graham and Bailey hurts. Graham is a leader on the offense and a great blocker - unless our rookie TE really emerges I can't see us making this move.

                          Move 5: Third Round (pick 71) - CB Syd'Quan Thompson, Cal.
                          We certainly need another CB to groom behind Champ and Goodman - obviously this becomes an even bigger need if you trade Champ away.


                          • Assuming no trades were done, what are your ideal scenarios for picks 15, 62, & this draft played out? Interested to know which players you would've taken.


                            • Yeah I think though after looking so bad the past 2 weeks, it's easy to get pessimistic. But if we lose next week to the ******* Redskins, I'm personally delivering that petition to your door.

                              Seriously though, at this point we SHOULD get 10 wins. As in, not getting 10 wins would be VERY dissapointing and should be the almost worst-case scenario. Redskins, Chiefs twice, Raiders. All 4 should be gimmes. And then San Diego still doesn't look like anything special and the game's in Denver so hopefully we beat them. Even though I had the "sky is falling" mentality last night, we should still make the playoffs.

                              Originally posted by Scott Wright
                              Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
                              Originally posted by njx9
                              do i tell you when to flip the burger?


                              • I am not sure why anyone is getting particularly upset with the last two weeks. This Broncos team is a good football team, nothing more and nothing less. They should beat the bottom half of the NFL almost every time, and they should be in the contest against the top half of the NFL every game. We will lose some games against other good football teams. Considering we have a new coach, new offensive scheme, new defensive scheme, and mostly new players, that is not a bad thing. Being a playoffs caliber team, if only just, is something everyone of us would have taken as the start of the season. I dont expect to be the best team in the NFL, or even top 5, this year, and wasnt thinking it even when we were 6-0. Winning some close games has seemingly unrealistically raised the expectations of a lot of fans to believing this team is better than a good football team. If we lose to the redskins, chiefs, etc. down the stretch, then I will start worrying.



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