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  • It's funny. Sniper is trolling the thread of a team he supports.
    R.I.P. L.E.F.
    "I am the one who knocks!"

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    • D-Unit updated my sig for me. I hope you like it Sniper.

      Just so we're clear, I didn't make it.
      R.I.P. L.E.F.
      "I am the one who knocks!"

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      • McGuffie expected back in A2 tonight or early tomorrow morning. Not saying he's staying for sure, but I think a lot of people overreacted.

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        • Originally posted by P-L View Post
          McGuffie expected back in A2 tonight or early tomorrow morning. Not saying he's staying for sure, but I think a lot of people overreacted.
          I might not have reacted at all if you hadn't got me all worried by bringing that to my attention, haha.
          R.I.P. L.E.F.
          "I am the one who knocks!"

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          • Originally posted by Xiomera View Post
            It's funny. Sniper is trolling the thread of a team he supports.
            No. I'm still waiting for a reply to my post about the lack of good players recruited by Carr. Did you magically not see it? It's not trolling.

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            • Originally posted by SNIPER26 View Post
              No. I'm still waiting for a reply to my post about the lack of good players recruited by Carr. Did you magically not see it? It's not trolling.
              Not everything you type warrants a response. I told you I'm done having this discussion with you.

              You are no more willing to listen to my argument than I am yours.

              This is a matter of opinion. I don't ******* care if you disagree.
              R.I.P. L.E.F.
              "I am the one who knocks!"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Xiomera View Post
                Not everything you type warrants a response. I told you I'm done having this discussion with you.
                But I specifically asked you questions in there. Why won't you reply? Because you know for a second you'd have to remove your head from Carr's ass

                You are no more willing to listen to my argument than I am yours.
                How do you come up with that? Because I've torn apart every one of your pathetic excuses for not liking Rodriguez? Ah, okay.

                This is a matter of opinion. I don't ******* care if you disagree.
                The recruiting post isn't a matter of opinion, yet you won't even touch it. Wonder why...

                Comment


                • going from an elite school who didn't need gimmick offenses to a 3-8 school in need of one isn't my idea of a good idea. i went to ball state and western. they are both doing pretty well for mac teams right now, but it would have been nice to have had the jake longs, braylon edwards, and alan branches.

                  and lloyd carr's recruiting suffered at the end of his reign because everyone was calling for his head because he couldn't win another championship or beat ohio state. now we can't even beat michigan state. if he would have been replaced by a proper michigan man then the big nfl-material recruits would have came. we could have used that florida win to rebound. now we're like notre dame. big name but not championship relevant. and mallet and clausen were the top 2 qbs of their class. ofcourse a qb with only high school experiance would have struggled in his only year.
                  SCA Prowler is my Xbox Live Gamertag
                  Fire Caldwell!!!

                  Prowler's Newb Guide

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                  • i should actually add that it is admirable to stand up for michigan and rich rod. but i still think rich rod screwed us this year. i don't want to permanately be at michigan state's level.

                    the demise of michigan was greatly exaggerated the past couple of years because of one loss-app state. i'd argue that was just horrible defensive coaching against a great offensive team.

                    i guess michigan will probably be in good shape in another couple years but there was something nice about being a bigger stronger team pushing people down.
                    SCA Prowler is my Xbox Live Gamertag
                    Fire Caldwell!!!

                    Prowler's Newb Guide

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                    • Originally posted by Prowler View Post
                      going from an elite school who didn't need gimmick offenses to a 3-8 school in need of one isn't my idea of a good idea
                      Florida fans also didn't like the idea of a spread offense when Urban Meyer came in.

                      and lloyd carr's recruiting suffered at the end of his reign because everyone was calling for his head because he couldn't win another championship or beat ohio state.
                      That had nothing to do with it. He just couldn't land elite recruits.

                      now we can't even beat michigan state.
                      Really? One year and you're throwing in the towel to a team where UM's got a 40 game lead on?

                      if he would have been replaced by a proper michigan man
                      Bo Schembechler was not a Michigan man when he was hired.

                      then the big nfl-material recruits would have came.
                      Not necessarily.

                      we could have used that florida win to rebound.
                      With what? A sophomore QB who couldn't complete 50% of his passes, the same much maligned OL, the same slow as molasses outside WRs, a crappy TE (who, by the way, lost his job to a true freshman and now plays DE), the same crappy LBs, and the same ****-tacular secondary (minus Warren). This isn't as much on Rodriguez as much as you'd like to believe it is.


                      now we're like notre dame. big name but not championship relevant.
                      Rich Rodriguez has a proven track record of improving after a disastrous first season, and that tends to culminate in league titles. Charlie Weis has a history of regressing. Get over the one year.

                      and mallet and clausen were the top 2 qbs of their class. ofcourse a qb with only high school experiance would have struggled in his only year.
                      Clausen completed way more than 43% of his passes, and he didn't have Jake Long blocking for him, Mike Hart to take off pressure, and Mario Manningham/Adrian Arrington to throw to.

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                      • Originally posted by Prowler View Post
                        i should actually add that it is admirable to stand up for michigan and rich rod. but i still think rich rod screwed us this year. i don't want to permanately be at michigan state's level.
                        I'll bet a lot of money that Michigan won't be at or below MSU's level. People like you and Xio are putting way too much stock into one season. MSU has a tremendous senior RB, a senior QB (he sucks, but he's got experience) and a good dose of seniors and juniors who get PT on both sides of the ball. Do you really think MSU will continually be good? That's gotta be a joke.

                        Rodriguez didn't "screw" anyone this year. In a year like this, do you know how valuable the experience is for the young pups that are playing? Imagine Martavious Odoms as a senior. Imagine Sam McGuffie (Assuming he stays) as a senior. Think of the matchup problems Kevin Koger will provide as he gets bigger, stronger, and more experienced. Do you really think any Big 10 OL want to face Mike Martin as a junior? (well, as a sophomore too). This season is essentially practice. Does it suck for the seniors? Yes. Would it have been much better under Carr? **** no.

                        the demise of michigan was greatly exaggerated the past couple of years because of one loss-app state. i'd argue that was just horrible defensive coaching against a great offensive team.
                        It could be that. Or it could be getting throttled by Oregon. Not beating Ohio State. Being in the NC race once since 1997 ('06). There are plenty more things that you can point to.

                        i guess michigan will probably be in good shape in another couple years but there was something nice about being a bigger stronger team pushing people down.
                        And that wasn't working anymore, because they were bigger, but not always stronger. Not to be one of the tools who thinks Mike Barwis created the Earth and all, but Mike Gittleson's S&C program just wasn't cutting it in this day and age.

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                        • Originally posted by SNIPER26 View Post
                          I'll bet a lot of money that Michigan won't be at or below MSU's level. People like you and Xio are putting way too much stock into one season. MSU has a tremendous senior RB, a senior QB (he sucks, but he's got experience) and a good dose of seniors and juniors who get PT on both sides of the ball. Do you really think MSU will continually be good? That's gotta be a joke.
                          Sniper, I've said repeatedly that it isn't the losing that I dislike about RichRod. Sure it sucks, but I have admitted many times that he'll probably be successful. And of course I'll be happy that we're winning, but I can still be upset with the way in which we're having our success.

                          Call me a traditionalist, but I just like the Pro Style offense and the Michigan tradition. Sure the end of the Lloyd Carr era didn't go as well as I might have wished, but the remedy for that shouldn't have been to abandon everything that is Michigan football.

                          I enjoyed that I was watching an NFL talent producing Machine. Along with USC, I think Michigan is the premier collegiate producer of Pro Quarterbacks in the past 20 years. QB's who run RichRod's spread offense don't go on to the NFL to play QB. Pat White is the idealistic spread offense QB and his NFL future is as a Wideout.

                          Maybe my expectations for Michigan football run deeper than strictly wins and bowl games.
                          R.I.P. L.E.F.
                          "I am the one who knocks!"

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                          • Ok, so some points to make here. I'll just list them and see how it goes. I'm sure I'll forget some stuff here, but whatever.

                            spread offense being explosive-Yes, at least 8 of the top 10 scoring offenses run a spread. But let's be honest. There's a big difference between the spread option read that we run, and a throw the ball all over spread. Oklahoma is fairly balanced, but they still throw 35+ times a game. Texas Tech averages 50 passes a game and Mizzou 40. Texas still throws 30+ times a game. Most of those 8 teams throw the ball at least 30) times a game. We run the ball about 37 times a game and throw 28 times a game. And that's with us being down alot!

                            I realize that our QB's suck, but is that really a less conservative offense than what we're used to? In '07 we averaged 33 throws per game (and 41 runs, so pretty similiar), in '05 we averaged 35 passes and 41 runs ('06 in screwed up on MGoBlue, but I can't imagine it's much different). Is this really a less conservative offense? If anything, I'd rather see a throw it everywhere spread than the spread option. Are 5 INT's really that much worse than 5 fumbles?

                            Transfers-I really can't disagree with Sniper or PL here. If guys want to leave and don't want to be here, let them go.

                            Rod's record after his first season-Let's be honest here. Yes, Rod showed improvement after his first season. Massive improvement even. But his average record after his first season is still 9-3. Would anyone be overly happy with that? That's probably not winning the Big 10.

                            Yes, he rolled off 11-1, 11-2 and 11-2 records his last 3 years at WVU. He was also 9-4, 8-5 and 8-4 before that. Those last 3 years he had Slaton and White. Now White is a punk. But let's be realistic, despite being an also ran prospect, Slaton has at least shown that he has some ability to play in the NFL and be successful so far. Let's not forget Mike Hart was a 3 star prospect, and I don't think it was the system that was making him successful. The spread option needs real big time playmakers at the RB, QB and WR spots to make it go. Without those, we have what we have. Just like any other system, talent makes it go, not the other way around.

                            Recruiting-I really don't think it's fair to compare Carr to Rod at this point. Rod's hasn't even had one real recruiting class come in yet. Now to be fair, I don't know what any of these guys are going to amount to. I think we'll need to see at least 3 years of recruiting from Rod to say whether he's a better recruiter than Carr.

                            But Sniper, we have more than 1 4 star LB recruit on the roster. I won't mention Mouton, because you already did. Looking at the roster and the positions listed on MGoBlue, JB Fitzgerald was a 4 star, as was Kenny Demens. Taylor Hill and Marcus Witherspoon were also 4 stars (what happened to them anyway?). Austin Panter was a 4 star (I hate JUCO's, and he sucks balls, but he was a 4 star). That's certainly more than one.

                            I somewhat agree about the DE/DT positions, although Ryan Van Bergen was a 4 star DE recruit from the same class as Mallett and Warren. Agreed on the DT's though. We have 4 DT's listed on the roster and 2 of them are seniors. That's hideous. The safety situation has been made worse by injuries. Realistically we've got guys like Brandon Smith and Mike Williams that have been hurt. I can also recall a couple years ago people wishing for the day that Stevie Brown would get to play. And let's also look at the fact that Rod hasn't brought in a LB recruit in the '09 class so far that's higher than a 3 star either.

                            The '07 offense-Yes, it was a disappointment. Yes, we had the schools leading QB, RB, good/great WR's, the #1 overall pick at LT, and the team only scored 27 points per game. Yes, we only scored 3 against OSU. They also only scored 14. Let's not forget that game was in brutal weather. Let's also not forget that the schools leading QB and RB were banged up most of the season, and only played a full game together 5 times out of 13 games. Both missed huge portions of time. I'd say the '06 offense was a far better judge of what the '07 offense was capable of, and that offense averaged 30 points a game and put up 40+ twice and 30+ 4 more times.


                            EDIT:Had to help my fiance with something. Continued..........
                            Last edited by ironman4579; 11-20-2008, 06:53 PM.



                            Originally posted by Jakey
                            WWWWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFF!!!

                            i am literally gonna kick a baby to death!

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                            • Pro style offense, Coach Carr, conservative offense-I'd say that the pro style offense can be just as effective as the spread option offense, if not more so.

                              There are plenty of innovative coaches out there running pro style schemes. And the spread option is not exactly a ticket to 40+ a game either. Rod's WVU offenses averaged 40 points in '07, 39 in '06, 32 in '05, 30 in '04, 29 in '03, and 30 in '02. He averaged 33 points a game over 6 seasons, with 2 of those seasons being well above the average and bringing it up. Notice how his offenses scored close to 40 twice, when he had Slaton and White? In those same years, Michigan's "ultra conservative" offense scored 27 points in '07, 30 in '06, 29 in '05, 31 in '04, and 35 in '03. MGoBlue doesn't have '02. Over the last 5 seasons, Michigan averaged 30 points per game. Rod's offenses averaged over 32 points per game twice. Carr's averaged over 32 once. Is there really that much difference?

                              Now, while I wasn't a Lloyd basher like so many others, I recognize that it was time for him to go. That doesn't mean it was time for the pro style offense to go. Lloyd's problem was not necessarily that he was overly conservative. It was that he always thought Michigan could come out and run it's game plan the same no matter who the opponent was and just beat them through talent and preparation. If that wasn't working, he was terrbile at making in game adjustments. I know everyone always talked about how sick they were of "run to Hart, run to Hart, run to Hart," or "run to Hart, run to Hart, throw it up to Braylon/Breaston/Avant/Manningham/Arrington." But so far, what I've seen from Rod is "run, run, throw it up to Odoms/Mathews/whoever," or "run, run, bubble screen to Odoms/Mathews/whoever." Is that any more innovative or less conservative?

                              This team already runs more and throws less than previous pro style Michigan teams, and Rod's previous offenses at WVU haven't shown me statistically that they are much if any more explosive than anything we've had around here in years. As of right now, it all looks like an old gift in a new package.
                              Last edited by ironman4579; 11-20-2008, 06:36 PM.



                              Originally posted by Jakey
                              WWWWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFF!!!

                              i am literally gonna kick a baby to death!

                              Comment


                              • I've always felt that Michigan was never fully on board with a switch the spread offense. RichRod might be a great coach, but he wasn't Michigan's 1st, 2nd or seemingly 3rd choice. All the guys who first had a shot at the job it seems were running Pro Style offenses.
                                R.I.P. L.E.F.
                                "I am the one who knocks!"

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