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  • Originally posted by boknows34 View Post
    Pretty sure the Eagles will cut Samuel this offseason due to his salary so the Lions might still get him without having to spend any draft picks.
    Except the Lions won't have anywhere near the cap space. They're already in deep **** when it comes to retaining Tulloch and Avril, among others.
    R.I.P. L.E.F.
    "I am the one who knocks!"


    • Originally posted by cotts1
      Tulloch misses a tackle for every tackle he makes. Yes he led our team in tackles, but virtually every teams MLB will lead their team in tackles. Its just the nature of the position. Tulloch has poor speed, constantly over pursues and often takes bad angles. Doesn't properly diagnose play action or screens. Average at best pass coverage. Can't shed blocks.

      If you watch the real good MLB's in the NFL they make most of their plays at or near the line of scrimmage. Tulloch makes most of his tackles 5-10 yards past the LOS. Now Durant is actually a good LB. He had a bad game against the Saints, but he was by far our best LB this season IMO.
      Are you effing kidding me? Go to any other Lions message board and post this, you'll be laughed off. Tulloch was probably our best defensive player last season outside of maybe a healthy Chris Houston. He's the only LB on our team that has any sort of play recognition and ability to wrap up and tackle. There's no way he won't be back with the team -- no freaking way. I'd rather us let go of both Levy and Durant before Tulloch.

      We will be fine in the cap room for a few reasons. Corey Williams will be restructured or released. I expect to see KVB restructured. Eric Wright will either come back very cheap or be let go. Calvin will be extended and will save us in about 6-7M this season in cap savings. And -- a guy like Peterman who's been terrible, makes around 5M a year and will not be back. Jeff Backus will be re-signed but, will come at a much cheaper price than the 7M or so he made last season.

      We'll be fine with cap once we start talking to these vets a bit more.


      • KVB can't restructure because he did last year along with Stafford. Suh is your best bet this year to restructure but it just pushes it down the road wtih Houston,Durant,Levy,Hill,Delmas,Gosder to resign next year or just let walk. I don't want Eric Wright back, he was 1 year 3.5 million last year, he won't come back for cheaper no matter how bad he did in the second half of the season. Peterman is not 5 million against the cap about that half that. He may get replaced but I doubt they cut him. Corey Williams is probably the odd man out at 5 million to make room for Tulloch. Backus will be resigned but it won't be the vet minimum. If Eric Wright made 3.5 million, Backus a starting LT every year for the Lions will get a few million. Calvin must be resigned and will save 6 million. A bunch of salaries/bonuses are going up, Stafford,Suh,KVB,Burleson,Houston,Durant so getting Avril back is going to be tight with filling out the rest of the roster. Can be done but won't be easy.


        • Backus will not be cheap. He's the best left tackle available this offseason.
          R.I.P. L.E.F.
          "I am the one who knocks!"


          • What if Schwartz showed up on his doorstep at 12:01 am with a lowball offer? Do you think that he'd at least appreciate the gesture and sign it anyway? I want to offer like $3.5m-4m. I'm guessing that he'd take a bit of a hometown discount, but I think he'll still end up in that $5m range.

            For reference, last year Jermon Bushrod received a 2 year $9.5m deal.
            Last edited by Prowler; 01-18-2012, 12:18 PM.
            SCA Prowler is my Xbox Live Gamertag
            Fire Caldwell!!!

            Prowler's Newb Guide


            • I'll put this here as a quick reference sheet for people to check.

              A quick glance at reveals that we have about $16m for next year.

              Last year:
              Ray Edwards received 5 year $30m ($6m/yr)
              Charles Johnson received 6 year $76m ($12m+/yr)
              Mathias Kiwanuka received 2 year $8.6m ($4.3m/yr)

              That Charles Johnson contract was ******** and I'm going to ignore it. The Panthers were desperate and had huge problems trying to retain their players. However, it will cause some problems with Avril's negotiations. I'm guessing they'll settle around $7m/year.

              FA ($ cost in 2011)(Projected Price 2012)
              Avril (2.61)($7m)
              Kevin Smith(600k)(600-800k)
              Shaun Hill(2.273m)(2m)
              Corey Hilliard(480k)
              Stefan Logan(480k)

              The right of first refusal in 2010(newest numbers I could find) was a $1.2m offer.

              DeAndre Levy(683.5k)
              Sammie Lee Hill(600k)

              Potential cost cutting moves
              Resign Calvin Johnson(18m-22m depending on source)(15M)
              Cut Corey Williams ($6.083m)
              Raiola ($3.4m)
              KVB ($6.73m)

              SCA Prowler is my Xbox Live Gamertag
              Fire Caldwell!!!

              Prowler's Newb Guide


              • The cap ceiling is also going up this off-season and teams have to spend like 90% of their available cap room. So, we'll have plenty of room.

                And -- Jeff Backus may be the "best OLT available" but, that's because you never see top notch OLT's hitting the market and Backus is going to have surgery on his arm for the injury he suffered against the Saints. His price should be pretty low(not vet min, though).


                • Prowler, you are lowballing the money Avril and Tulloch will command.
                  R.I.P. L.E.F.
                  "I am the one who knocks!"


                  • Originally posted by SRogers92 View Post
                    And -- Jeff Backus may be the "best OLT available" but, that's because you never see top notch OLT's hitting the market and Backus is going to have surgery on his arm for the injury he suffered against the Saints. His price should be pretty low(not vet min, though).
                    Except Backus is a league average left tackle (not below average) and he's never missed a start in his career. Guarantee he'll be in demand, but will probably show loyalty to the Lions. The question is, how much?
                    R.I.P. L.E.F.
                    "I am the one who knocks!"


                    • Backus was way better in the second half of the season. That pec injury may have hurt him some.

                      6 sacks, 3 hits, 22 hurries in first 8 (Allen abused him)
                      1 sack, one hit and 14 hurries in second half


                      • I wouldn't pay Avril much more than $6.5 million per year. The way I look at Avril is I ask myself if he were a FA from another team is he a must have? At the end of the day I can't say yes he is. He's a nice DE but not much more than a slightly above average guy off the edge. I think he gets the "we need to sign this guy" because he is a Lion and people have drank the kool-aid. Just like when James Hall had a big year and all the talk was he had to be signed regardless of the cost and he never lived up to the contract.


                        • I wouldn't mind Avril at Ray Edwards money. Not much more than that though.

                          I think Backus will be around 3 million. Did Tulloch have a more impressive year than his time at Tennessee? There wasn't a huge market for him last year. I'm not sure he raised his stock that much.


                          • Looks like we're gonna have to bring in Randy for the most prolific passing offense to ever happen.

                            Seriously though, I'd love to see Stanford Routt in Detroit.


                            • I'm trying to gauge what our priorities should be this offseason and setting value to our needs. I think the Lions should be built around:

                              1. Stafford
                              2. Calvin Johnson
                              3. Suh
                              4. Weapons on Offense
                              5. Oline
                              6. Dline
                              7. Secondary
                              8. Linebackers

                              1. Stafford is set with $15m/yr for the next 3 years.
                              2. CJ needs a long term deal without being too much of a dick about it. 8 years $130 million dollars should be about right for CJ. $16.25/yr with nice signing bonus up front to make him forget about losing out on 21 or so million this year.
                              3. Suh is our defensive icon and isn't going anywhere.
                              4. Titus, Burleson, Pettigrew, and Scheffler are nice pieces.
                              5. Backus is FA, Sims is here until 2015, Raiola can be upgraded with 2 years left, Peterman has 2 years left and I hate, Gosder is a FA after next season. After 2 seasons we will only have a left guard. We need some kind of plan for the future here. We can't rely on Corey Hilliard and Jason Fox as being the only stop gaps.
                              6. Avril may be too expensive, KVB is getting old and expensive, Suh, Fairley, and SLH should be the focus. Its time to lose Corey Williams' $6m. We should ideally focus on Avril/Suh/Fairley/High Draft Pick.
                              7. We need a top cover guy and an impact guy back here. I can't fully count on Delmas staying healthy either. Corner or safety, we could use a starter.
                              8. I personally love linebackers, but they aren't as important when we're blowing teams out with a healthy Stafford. We could definitely use a Zach Brown type to cover TEs, but we have other needs. I like Tulloch, Levy, and Durant but they may be casualties of the salary cap squeeze.

                              Charting my thinking to our starters
                              (how much I like the player)Player(importance to our future)

                              -We live and die by his arm
                              -too easy to replace with speed RBs
                              10Calvin10 7Burleson6 8Titus6 9Pettigrew7
                              -Calvin plus diversions
                              6Backus2 8Sims7 5Raiola3 4Peterman4 5Cherilus4
                              -Backus age 34, Raiola age 33, Gosder FA will need insurance

                              9Avril9 10Suh10 7Williams2 6KVB1
                              -You don't draft 2 DTs in 1st round and think Williams is the future. KVB also only has another couple seasons left in his tank
                              7Levy5 7Tulloch4 7Durant5
                              -Position is influenced by potential nickel and dime looks negating importance
                              6Wright4 7Delmas7 5Spievey3 6Houston4
                              -Corners should be more important than just 4s, but its reflective that they are just number 2 types. Needs an upgrade plus I think Spievey was alright at times but isn't anything special.

                              So needs....
                              1. Resign Calvin
                              2. Lay groundwork for future of our oline. Need to add 1-3 players either through draft or with Fox stepping up.
                              3. Move Corey Williams if possible to free up Fairley and resign SLH.
                              4. Bring back Avril provided the money is right. I think 6 years $50 million is fair...the Panthers thought 6 years $76m was...I'm not going above $50-55m.
                              5. Pass rush must be addressed with a high pick this year in the draft. KVB's age and decline can be negated with a deep dline rotation, but the staple of our defense is the dline. We need another beast at DE, especially if Avril turns out to be too expensive.
                              6. Look for a Janoris Jenkins/Dre Kirkpatrick/Mark Barron in the draft.
                              7. Make the best starting combination of linebackers out of Levy, Tulloch, Durant, Carpenter, and Palmer as possible with whatever scraps of money are left over. Hogue is not starting.

                              That priority sheet would leave us with a hopeful offseason of:
                              Avril resigning for $50m over 6 years.
                              Drafting priorities of: Oline, DE, CB, S, LB

                              I expect they should draft something like this:

                              Mike Adams-I don't trust him at all and still view him as a 2nd rounder but we need to do something. Risk is lessened by Gosder being a FA after his rookie year. I personally prefer going with Jenkins or Mercilus but Adams is the pick due to organizational priorities.
                              Cam Johnson-quality every down DE and should thrive in d rotation
                              Ben Jones-I think he dropped a bit after Senior Bowl, but I still like him enough.
                              Sean Spence-Coverage skills trump lack of size.

                              Final thoughts:

                              I don't know how the salary cap fits in exactly, but those are the priorities. I'm assuming that if Calvin gets restructured and Avril signs for a reasonable amount then Tulloch will be gone along with Wright. I'm hoping that Backus can be brought back, but if we draft Adams then it won't be as important.
                              SCA Prowler is my Xbox Live Gamertag
                              Fire Caldwell!!!

                              Prowler's Newb Guide


                              • He was one of the best defenders we had last season, but at his age, I can't help but wonder if cutting Corey Williams is the way to go. I mean, come on. You'd rather have Avril back than Williams if it comes down to it (and fitting Avril in while attempting to make ANY new additions will be unlikely). Besides, DT is still our position with the best depth. Makes sense to jettison a DT before a DE here.
                                R.I.P. L.E.F.
                                "I am the one who knocks!"



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