Thigpen not the answer

[Matthew Jones]

You don't win Super Bowls as an individual. Brian Urlacher helped take his team there. We haven't won a playoff game since the 90s and Pioli has 3 rings in the last 6 years. He knows how to build a championship defense and he loves his linebackers.

Thigpen has a lot to work on but the jury is still out. He could be a very good QB for a long time.

An interesting stat I heard: He threw more TDs and less picks than Ben Roethlisberger. Ben had 17 tds and 15 picks, Thigpen had 18 tds and 12 picks. The difference between a 2-14 record and winning the Super Bowl? That DEFENSE.

We cannot win games when the other team scores more points than we do. It's crazy but it's true!

I agree that the defense on the Steelers is their biggest asset, but come on, Big Ben is so much better than Thigpen and it's not even a contest. Ben has been a starter for much longer, is a much better decision maker, has a much better arm, and has actually won a few games here and there. Even last year, TD-INT ratio doesn't tell the whole story - Ben's YPA was 7.04 to TT's 6.21. Also, 59.9% to 54.8% - Vince Young cringes when he looks at Thigpen's completion percentage. Also, Roethlisberger had 700 more yards and is just a far more clutch quarterback.

Every year, there are a few teams whose fans think they really have something when they get a quarterback who really doesn't do that much. I remember the Raiders fans all thought this same thing when they had Andrew Walter a few years ago. We never heard from him again once they drafted Russell. Bears fans say that every year and get sub-par play to go along with it every year as well. What's next, Jets fans who think Kellen Clemens is going to be a stud? This same thing happened with Damon Huard and Brodie Croyle a few years ago - at some point, you've gotta stop taking guys off the scrap heap and get some actual talent. I think Thigpen is an okay backup, but you can't rely on someone who had a mediocre season with one of the worst passer ratings in the league to be a starter for ten years when you have an opportunity to get a legitimate starter. No offense, but that's how I see it.

[vidae]

No offense taken and you'll notice I never said anywhere that Thigpen was as good as Ben; he isn't and it isn't close. Just saying, for someone who most people have given up on, Thigpen had a pretty solid season.

I was merely pointing out the fact that Pittsburgh D won a lot of the games for them and you can't deny that fact. If our D was half as good and Thigpen was "decent" we might win our division which was really balls last year. Two teams at 8-8 means it is anyones game at this point!

[Loggerhead]

I like watching TT play and think that he will be a good starter. But comparing him to Roethlisberger is heresy. The year before this Ben passed for 33 TD's and had the 2nd highest QB rating in the NFL. This year he just suffered from a non existent running game and an OL that lacked cohesion for most of the year.
KC's problems don't stem from the QB position. They stem from lacking a consistent running game, a terrible right side of the OL, and having only 2 decent recievers.
If I am KC I would draft Curry 1st round, Hakeem Nicks in the 2nd, and sign Vernon Carey in FA. With all that being said though your defense is in disarray. Since Pioli has a background in a 3-4 D, does that mean Flowers, Dorsey, and Tyler are no longer fits? KC has a lot of needs and I don't think drafting a QB is the answer. Give Thigpen 2 years as the starter and try to build around him instead of totally starting over.

[Hermstheman83]

I agree that the defense on the Steelers is their biggest asset, but come on, Big Ben is so much better than Thigpen and it's not even a contest. Ben has been a starter for much longer, is a much better decision maker, has a much better arm, and has actually won a few games here and there. Even last year, TD-INT ratio doesn't tell the whole story - Ben's YPA was 7.04 to TT's 6.21. Also, 59.9% to 54.8% - Vince Young cringes when he looks at Thigpen's completion percentage. Also, Roethlisberger had 700 more yards and is just a far more clutch quarterback.

Every year, there are a few teams whose fans think they really have something when they get a quarterback who really doesn't do that much. I remember the Raiders fans all thought this same thing when they had Andrew Walter a few years ago. We never heard from him again once they drafted Russell. Bears fans say that every year and get sub-par play to go along with it every year as well. What's next, Jets fans who think Kellen Clemens is going to be a stud? This same thing happened with Damon Huard and Brodie Croyle a few years ago - at some point, you've gotta stop taking guys off the scrap heap and get some actual talent. I think Thigpen is an okay backup, but you can't rely on someone who had a mediocre season with one of the worst passer ratings in the league to be a starter for ten years when you have an opportunity to get a legitimate starter. No offense, but that's how I see it.

Gotta take guys off the scrap heap? I don't think theres any argument that thiggy has talent. I can't honestly see how you can objectively say that he doesn't have potential based off his statistics. I could only watch the guy in the Denver game, but MAN, you can get excited about Thiggy... Comparing him to proven, "talented" quarterbacks, his stats were similar to those that are first ballot hall of famers(Peyton, and in his rookie season if we're comparing apples to apples). I thought Brodie had talent(enough to base our entire franchise on him) but they guy couldn't stay healthy. Here we got thiggy, a more mobile, less injury prone quarterback with a similar completion percentage in his rookie season as Peyton did.

I never said Thiggy is as good as Big Ben is, but how many games would he have won without that amazing defense? I mean, you switch those two defenses, how many games would Big Ben win? I don't think we'd see him in the playoffs....

[TonyGfortheTD]

Tyler Thigpen can turn out to be a good QB, but I don't want a good QB. It's time to get an elite QB.

Thigpen isn't part of the problem, nor is he the solution. He's a QB I'd feel comfortable putting in the game if the #1 guy goes down.

[villagewarrior]

I agree that the defense on the Steelers is their biggest asset, but come on, Big Ben is so much better than Thigpen and it's not even a contest. Ben has been a starter for much longer, is a much better decision maker, has a much better arm, and has actually won a few games here and there. Even last year, TD-INT ratio doesn't tell the whole story - Ben's YPA was 7.04 to TT's 6.21. Also, 59.9% to 54.8% - Vince Young cringes when he looks at Thigpen's completion percentage. Also, Roethlisberger had 700 more yards and is just a far more clutch quarterback.

Every year, there are a few teams whose fans think they really have something when they get a quarterback who really doesn't do that much. I remember the Raiders fans all thought this same thing when they had Andrew Walter a few years ago. We never heard from him again once they drafted Russell. Bears fans say that every year and get sub-par play to go along with it every year as well. What's next, Jets fans who think Kellen Clemens is going to be a stud? This same thing happened with Damon Huard and Brodie Croyle a few years ago - at some point, you've gotta stop taking guys off the scrap heap and get some actual talent. I think Thigpen is an okay backup, but you can't rely on someone who had a mediocre season with one of the worst passer ratings in the league to be a starter for ten years when you have an opportunity to get a legitimate starter. No offense, but that's how I see it.

1. Ben has been a starter for much longer.
-True, however you can't knock Thiggy for being 3-4 years younger then Roethlisberger.

2. Ben is a much better decision maker.
-Again, a product of 3-4 years more experience then Thiggy. And his rookie season he was asked to not lose games, and therefore didn't have a very big role. Thiggy was asked to win games with a HOF tight end, a wide receiver with the drops, 2 good o-linemen, and a historically bad defense. And he was essentially a rookie.

3. Ben has a much better arm.
-No argument on this one. Ben is also about 5 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier.

4. Ben has actually won a few games.
-Let's look at number 2 again. If Roethlisberger was the starter this year for the Chiefs, how many games would they have won? 4? 5?

The Chiefs were historically bad, and as the QB for the majority of the year, Thiggy has some of that blame. However, aside from the Atlanta game Thiggy played much better then anyone could have possibly hoped. I see a lot of potential there, and if he can become a proficient pocket passer he is going to be a very dangerous QB.

Does that mean the Chiefs shouldn't draft Stafford if he is available? No, obviously you take the best QB available right now. And honestly, I see Cassel as a less athletic version of Thigpen, who benefitted from having a tremendous plethora of weapons to choose from, including Randy Moss, one of the best WRs ever.

Thiggy shouldn't be labeled the QBOTF, he hasn't shown he can be that. But he has shown that he shouldn't be discarded so easily.

[bored of education]

I will not compare Big Ben to TT at all. That is all!

Big Ben mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm baby

[villagewarrior]

I will not compare Big Ben to TT at all. That is all!

Big Ben mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm baby

Way to not take a stand, haha.

[bored of education]

So, is it fair to say Brodie Croyle is not the answer?

[nepg]

Thigpen looked decent in the college no-read offense, but when he was in any kind of game situation where he had to make a game decision (2nd & 4th quarter, 3rd downs, etc.) he was absolutely lost and a total piece of crap still.

He might have earned a shot in a real offense, but I honestly wouldn't bother with him. To compare him to Cassel is absolutely ********. Cassel reads defenses, checks defenders, goes through all of his progressions, moves in the pocket...you know, everything you want your QB to be able to do.

Thigpen can't do any of these things. He takes a 3-step drop and either throws it if he sees his man, or runs. He was instructed to run or take sacks if his primary target wasn't wide open. That is not what you want out of your starting QB.

The Chiefs have no business drafting a QB at #3. They've got tons of cap room and very few free agents (the ones that sort of matter are RFAs anyway). At #3, the best pick is easily Aaron Curry.

They have 2 options for the QB position: give Thigpen a shot, and look for a QB after the 3rd round (Freeman, Bomar, Reilly) to take over when Thigpen almost inevitably fails, or sign/trade for Matt Cassel or Kurt Warner (with Kurt, you still have to draft a QB later).

I really think they should just not screw around with the QB position and trade for Cassel. It's not going to take much to trade for him, and it's worth it. This is a team that will win the AFC West if they get just a few new starters in place and add some depth. They have primo draft picks and tons of cap room for free agents...
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[nepg]

4. Ben has actually won a few games.
-Let's look at number 2 again. If Roethlisberger was the starter this year for the Chiefs, how many games would they have won? 4? 5?

It doesn't matter if you're talking about Ben NOW or Ben as a rookie...the Chiefs would have won 10+ with Ben NOW and at least 7 games with Ben as a rookie... The Chiefs weren't that bad, the QB play made them 2-14... That's how bad the situation was most of the year...
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[vidae]

It doesn't matter if you're talking about Ben NOW or Ben as a rookie...the Chiefs would have won 10+ with Ben NOW and at least 7 games with Ben as a rookie... The Chiefs weren't that bad, the QB play made them 2-14... That's how bad the situation was most of the year...

You could NOT be more wrong. The QB play did not make us 2-14. Our LAST IN OVERALL DEFENSE did. We were close in so many of those games (something like 6? losses by 7 or fewer) but we were absolute dead last in rush defense and last in total defense.

We were not 2-14 because of QB play. It certainly didn't help, but when Thigpen came in he gave us a stabilizing force on the offensive side.

[nepg]

Yes it did. If you can't hold onto the ball and put your defense in bad situations (ie on the field long and often), that's a direct result of the offense. Despite statistics, the defense really isn't all that bad.
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SensualLady

[Hermstheman83]

Yes it did. If you can't hold onto the ball and put your defense in bad situations (ie on the field long and often), that's a direct result of the offense. Despite statistics, the defense really isn't all that bad.

A direct result of the offense? What about those few three hundred yard rushing games they had against our voracious defense? You can't tell me that the defense was more at fault for us losing games. I can see an effect on how the offense puts your defense in trouble, which the spread can be susceptible too(if you don't make your throws, etc) but I'd say the lack of pass rush, our inability to contain speedy backs was more of an issue. Thiggy, more or less, kept us in games not killed us.

[nepg]

Obviously they have a few holes on defense (pass rusher, MLB, OLB), but 90% of the problems last year were because of the right side of the offensive line and the QB. Rushing yards against are often a product of the offense not getting the job done (as was the case with the Chiefs in 2008). When you can't keep a drive going and keep pressure on the other team, they're just going to run it out.

When teams got a lead against the Chiefs, they had zero fear of Kansas City's offense doing anything, so they'd just run it. Lack of a middle linebacker hurt the Chiefs in these situations, but going forward, it's still more of an issue with the QB position.

Chiefs fans are all high and optimistic about Thigpen because he had a few decent games statistically, but the dude sucks. When you look at the why's and how's of the Chiefs last year, it was obvious from the beginning that the QB position was losing games all on its own. Even when it seemed Thigpen was playing well, he still sucked in the 2nd and 4th quarters and on 3rd downs.
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Michele