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The 3-4 Debate

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  • #16
    We almost have all the pieces needed to run a pretty solid 4-3. We need a pass rushing DE and a MLB but other than that.. I like our secondary and how they've progressed and I think that if he's used correctly that Dorsey could be the dominant player many thought he'd be.. I do not think you can label him a bust just yet.. but I really hope we don't switch to the 3-4. It would take years to draft and develop those players for that system and it looks as if a lot of money would be wasted, depending on a few players and their ability to fit into that scheme.

    Originally posted by fenikz
    His soft D really turns me off
    ** RIP themaninblack. You will be missed. **

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    • #17
      Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
      Regardless of where they had him pegged...his name and the 3-4 nose was a common topic last year and many believed he could play it.
      Dorsey's best fit is a 3-4 end. His not big enough to be a 3-4 nose.

      Beastly sig by BoneKrusher

      Super Bowl XLIV Champions
      WHO DAT!

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      • #18
        i am readig this thread and i have a **** load to say. i cant really type that well and i wont make a thread saying im the most drink poster in nfldc DC history. but i think we lack the personel to make the transition AT ALL. I think it would take another year of 2-3 solid picks to become a good defense in the 4-3 than 3 drafts to become relevant with a 3-4.

        offense has too many holes and defense has too many holes as a colelctive to make that transition. now a days wit hthe win now type of thinking ..no way does Clark hunt say suree take 3 more drafts to make KC a force.

        Not one player in the front 7 has the 'mold' or skillset to 'excell; in the 3-4

        but i will dicuss further tomorrow
        my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
        <TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
        <+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
        <+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
        Originally posted by Hermstheman83
        What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by diabsoule View Post
          Dorsey's best fit is a 3-4 end. His not big enough to be a 3-4 nose.
          I've agreed that his best fit in a Chiefs 3-4 would be end, right now...I dont particulary like him in a 3-4 that much either but, he can play in any defense and at the nose. That is what I was getting at...last year this was talked about a lot, it was overkill. If the Dolphins drafted him, it wouldnt be just to play end. In fact, everyone who had him going to the Dolphins talked about him playing NT. The value in a player like him came from the ability to play multiple poisitions in multiple schemes. The "size" issue with 3-4 NTs is becoming less of an issue, considering we're seeing smaller and smaller NTs. Even Mayock loved Sed Ellis at the 3-4 nose at 300 lbs. Given Dorsey's strength and ability to take on multiple blockers, he can play the nose. It's not a match made in heaven but, the ability to do so is there....Or if the Chiefs wanted to implement a one-gap 3-4...Dorsey could be a lot like the Cowboys Ratliff. But again, I agree that Tank Tyler or an outside player would be manning the nose position for them.

          But again, put me in with the group that thinks a move to 3-4 shouldnt be done at all.

          Thanks BoneKrusher^

          http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
          http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
          KO KNOWS

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          • #20
            Brian Johnston could be a great fit at 3-4 outside linebacker.
            Originally posted by 49erNation85
            I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Menardo75 View Post
              Brian Johnston could be a great fit at 3-4 outside linebacker.
              I agree. Without any FA's or draft picks, this is what a 3-4 alignment would currently look like.

              DE: Alphonso Boone/Turk McBride NT: Tank Tyler/Ron Edwards DE: Glenn Dorsey

              OLB: Tamba Hali ILB: Derrick Johnson ILB: Donnie Edwards OLB: Demorrio Williams/Brian Johnston

              CB: Brandon Flowers FS: Jarrad Page SS: Bernard Pollard CB: Brandon Carr

              The main issue right off the bat in my opinion would be the nose tackle situation. I don't think running a 3-4 D would be a disaster or there is a huge overall void of talent on the Defense. I think a lot of the woes last season had to do with poor scheme and how Gun and Herm were trying to use players.

              The line overall would need to be upgraded though and better quality at LB would be helpful.
              Currently on IR: Rip 2011 Jamaal Charles :(

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              • #22
                Tyler is a perfect fit for the NT, in fact that's what a lot of people were looking to draft him as. Edwards, and Johnson are perfect fits at ILB, but I don't think Hali would be a great 3-4 OLB nor would Williams. Orakpo, or Everette Brown would be nice additions.
                Originally posted by 49erNation85
                I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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                • #23
                  The Chiefs actually flirted with Tamba Hali dropping back from DE to LB when he was a rookie and the results were actually favorable.

                  I agree on the notation about Demorrio Williams being a bad fit in a 3-4 though. The linebacker situation will need a lot of attention regardless of the D that is ran, though. Don't think Donnie Edwards can play a full season any longer.

                  Tank Tyler at NT would be interesting to watch.

                  I'm probably in the minority that thinks the Chiefs should install the 3-4 if Pioli brings in some veterans tailored to run it to help the younger guys transition over and an experienced coordinator like Romeo Crennel.
                  Currently on IR: Rip 2011 Jamaal Charles :(

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                  • #24
                    If I were them I would Hire Romeo and make the transistion, you would basically be starting from the same spot no matter what scheme you run sadley.
                    Originally posted by 49erNation85
                    I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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                    • #25
                      I agree completely. Regardless of the scheme they run, the Chiefs will have to invest quite a bit of picks into the front 7 and the next set of Defensive coaches will have to reteach the players how to play with proper technique.

                      They weren't even doing the 4-3 well, so might as well take the plunge now and switch to the D Pioli has always drafted players for.
                      Currently on IR: Rip 2011 Jamaal Charles :(

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                      • #26
                        Kendrell Bell fits in a 3-4...

                        HAHAHHAHAAHAHHA... sorry I had to. That was mean.
                        "I'm Ko Simpson!"

                        - Ko Simpson

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                        • #27
                          Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

                          I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.

                          Originally posted by fenikz
                          His soft D really turns me off
                          ** RIP themaninblack. You will be missed. **

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by vidae-KC View Post
                            Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

                            I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.
                            That is what me and a couple of other Packer fans on this site first thought. ugh. I think you guys run a 43 base with 34 looks.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by vidae-KC View Post
                              Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

                              I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.
                              I honestly think the hybrid defense is the best way to go. The only way to succesfully transition a defense is slowly. I wish some of the coaches thought that way...
                              Originally posted by 49erNation85
                              I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by vidae-KC View Post
                                Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

                                I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.
                                Why should they stick with the 4-3? The Defense sucks already, so it's not like they'll be losing a lot by making the plunge, the GM has always built a 3-4 D and knows how to do it quite well and the Head Coach has primarily been associated with teams that have also ran a 3-4.

                                I think as long as you can comfortably find a place for Dorsey in the 3-4, make the change. Regardless of the scheme, a lot of the front 7 will have to be completely rebuilt.

                                Romeo Crennel has experience making the transition over and he and Pioli know each other very well.
                                Currently on IR: Rip 2011 Jamaal Charles :(

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