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  • Originally posted by Grizzlegom View Post
    b.) i live in PA and i read the papers down there to check up on the dolphins stuff.
    Geez guys. Everyone feels they need ot chim in on this one. Listen most the most part. people from different places don't read Miami newspapers. Some ou of town fanatics do go on and read. People like ones on a draft message board site usually qualify as hardcore fanatics. However, it still wouldnt me if you couldnt name all three major Miami newspapers without looking them up. All this is besides the point tho because I think we an all agree people from other cities generally don't read Miami newspapers.


    Originally posted by Grizzlegom View Post
    i do expect us to draft a QB, but it will be a day two developmental guy. you obviously have a personal vendetta against culpepper. i mean i never liked the trade and dislike him but damn...
    Dude where do you get this stuff. I haven't gone around bashing Culpepper all the time. All I've done is say that Cam Cameron isn't as high on Culpepper as most people on here will lead you to believe. here's nothing personal and why would I have something personal against a man I've never even met? All I've done is present facts, opinions and statements that show that there is a good chance Miami could draft a QB this season. I swear, I feel like you basically skimmed my posts instead of reading everything that was said. You completely missed the point of the entire discussion. and it's not like you were close. I mean sometimes when people get into disscussion they are on different pages but at least in the same ballpark. You are on a completely different continent.

    Originally posted by Grizzlegom View Post
    d.) we didnt release traylor, mcintosh, Bowens, Zgonina, or morris. they were free agents. as was welker, who we were gonna lose anyway so we got something for him instead.
    Your right we didn't release Traylor, Bowens, Zgonina or Morris. But we did bring them in before the FA period started at told them we didn't want them back. Basically the same idea was releasing the player but without the technicality of the actual paperwork. That point I was trying to get across was that we didn't want of them. Whether we released them or told them we were going to sign them, the bottom line is we didn't want them. That was the point of the post. Damn, for real dude. Please read my posts all the way thru before posting. It's like you bypassed the point of all my postsand pointed out the most irrevent statements that didn't even made sense.

    um...No Wes Welker if we wanted too we could keep. We were not going to loose him anyway. He was RFA so we had the option to match the offer. Ther eoffere didn't include poison pills and was only backloaded with funny money that Welker would have never gotten. We didn't even get to the point of having to match an offer because before the Pats could do it we worked out a trade for him.

    I mean damn, we didn't even have ot think about the options, as soon as he brought some value, we dealt him away. That's a sign that we really wanted him around. Bottom line is that noone of the guys mentioned above was important enough for Cam to want them back next season. that was the point of the post. Not whether they were released, traded, FAs or roadkill. The fact was we didn't want them back.

    Comment


    • I think I have decided that I would rather have Marcus Vick start at QB then spend our 1st round pick on Brady Quinn. I saw it is either Drew Stanton or bust for a QB on this draft. I think that it is a must for us to use one of our 2nd rounders on a WR though, if we do not get Stallworth.

      Comment


      • I don't see how anyone can say we need to draft a QB with #9 when there is a franchise QB already on the roster willing to redeem himself back to form.

        Does that seriously make sense?
        Vince Young is going to prove he's the next overrated QB to come out in years.

        He'll probably end up being a WR or something...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by I'mAHustler View Post
          I don't see how anyone can say we need to draft a QB with #9 when there is a franchise QB already on the roster willing to redeem himself back to form.

          Does that seriously make sense?
          Who is the franchise QB? I dont see one on the roster currently at the QB position.

          I see a 30 year old QB that that has the highest Turnover % per game for a QB in the NFL over the past 5 years. That leads the NFL normally in fumbles for a QB, that reads defenses poorly, that is 30+ on opening day next year. That has not been fully healthy in 2 years, that has not been productive in over 2 years.

          I see only ?????? there at the QB positon. (like I have been saying though I HOPE that I am wrong, I pray that I am but honestly I think we wasted 2 2nds in a row on QBs instead of drafting them).

          I dont think Brady Quinn will be there at number 9 anyways. If you want stanton though with the talk of him "rising" you will need to spend our 40th pick in the draft on him most likely. I personally still want a Left tackle and trading back for more draft picks in the 1st round to get one would be nice but who knows what will happen at this point.


          My curiousity right now is if what has been talked about often on the radio. That if indeed the medical staff didnt want to pass Allen before the draft and only did so for saban demanded it. If he cant play safety very well, but would be a better fit at CB like has been stated as well.

          Then would Laron Landry be a viable option at the number 9 pick? He is easily the top DB in the Draft by a good margin (even though I think kenny phillips next year will be even better).

          Secondary:

          SS Bell
          FS Landry
          CB W Allen
          CB J Allen
          Nick T Daniels
          Dime Hill (whatever happend to poole after he rehabbed, wonder if we take him back for a trial)

          Front Seven:
          OLB JT
          OLB Porter
          ILB Crowder
          ILB Zach
          DE Holliday
          DE Roth (2 wrights for backup)
          NT Evans ?? (tyler would be nice in the 2nd here if he puts on weight again)


          Any thoughts on this. This is of course assuming that Allen will play a CB slot instead of a safety slot.

          This scenerio assumes:
          1st Laron Landry
          2nd Kalil/Grubbs/Staley
          2nd Tank Tyler
          3rd Edwards QB


          like to get opinions good bad or horrible and why :)

          Comment


          • Culpepper still has the ability and the only question marks he truly has is his health. Even with those "fumble issues" which are overrated, he was a MVP candidate during his best season when Randy Moss was merely a decoy(due to injuries) throughout most of the season. And I don't see where people get this read defenses poorly from, maybe if our/his former offensive line allowed more then 2.5 seconds for him to throw the ball he could read defenses better . Fact of the matter is, we haven't seen the best of Culpepper's talents at all. The question that could be posed for Quinn or any other QB in the draft isn't the same for Daunte (which is "How good will they be", C-Pep's is "Can he be as good as he used to be") and the biggest difference is that he's proven.

            I would hate to take Landry at 9 as CBs are much more of a need then safety and Jason Allen hasn't experimented enough to justify starting him at that position.
            Vince Young is going to prove he's the next overrated QB to come out in years.

            He'll probably end up being a WR or something...

            Comment


            • If the coaches feel Jason Allen can move to CB and be a first round caliber CB then I think it would be smart to move him and then draft LaRon Landry to play FS. But that is a big if, and letting him stay at safety and taking Leon Hall or Chris Houston wouldn't be a terrible thing. In the 2nd round I'd like to pick up an interior lineman, be it Kalil, Blalock, etc, and an OE to back up Jason Taylor and eventually succeed him. Tank Tyler even at 330 isn't really the NT type player and is much more effective at 305. It's still to early in the process both draft wise and FA wise, but as of right now a day one of Hall/Blalock/Moses/Edwards isn't looking that bad.

              That is correct comahan
              I ******* LOVE YOU DG
              <3 dg

              Comment


              • i have very low expectations of jason allen and im honestly not counting on him to even claim a starting job next year but even if he works out at FS or CB, we could still use some help in the secondary and i wouldnt question hall, houston, or landry if we picked them.

                also travis minor signed with st. louis...ricky better be coming back cause we have no backup RBs left.
                http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/f...dolphins-front

                sig by BoneKrusher

                Comment


                • Originally posted by I'mAHustler View Post
                  Culpepper still has the ability and the only question marks he truly has is his health.
                  Have to completely disagree there. He has always had turnover problems and as much as I like to think that he can play without Randy Moss. Truth of the matter is he has never had a good season without the best WR in football on the roster.

                  Originally posted by I'mAHustler View Post
                  Even with those "fumble issues" which are overrated, he was a MVP candidate during his best season when Randy Moss was merely a decoy(due to injuries) throughout most of the season.
                  If you remember, even with those injuries Moss really only missed 2 or 3 games and while he was hampered during the 2nd half of the season he still managed to make some plays and still putting up better nubmers then what we get from guys like Chambers and Booker. He alsio average a huge 35 passes per game that year. Remember even Gus Frerotte has a decent season with us under Scott Linehan. A guy like Culpepper throwing 35 times per game back then could easily pu up huge numbers in that system. Linehan tends to make all his QBs look better then they really are. Not to take anything away frmo Culpepper but that season was definately not the norm for him and in a high powered offense like the Vikes had back then is not a situation that most NFL QBs get to enjoy.

                  Originally posted by I'mAHustler View Post
                  And I don't see where people get this read defenses poorly from, maybe if our/his former offensive line allowed more then 2.5 seconds for him to throw the ball he could read defenses better

                  Did you even watch last season? 2.5 seconds to throw? Yea the OL was bad but Culpepper was regualrly holding the ball for 6-7 seconds trying to figure out what to do with it when his main WR was covered. He needs to come to the line already reading the defense and already knowing what his options are even before the ball is snapped. Reading the defense is more then knowing what is goign on during the play. You have to know what to expect from them when you come to the line and know your options when the defense throws something that you don't expect. He shouldn't be sitting back there trying to figure out whats going on around him after the snap and getting sacked. That was part fo the problem. Even Joey Harrington would make his reads much faster and have a better idea of what the defense as doing. Did you notice how much less sacks we gave up when we switch to Joey who had an easier time reading the D and getting rid of the ball faster? While Joey did make a bunch of bonehead plays and really isn't a good QB, at least he didn't looking completely lost while he was on the field the way Culpepper did.

                  Originally posted by I'mAHustler View Post
                  Fact of the matter is, we haven't seen the best of Culpepper's talents at all. The question that could be posed for Quinn or any other QB in the draft isn't the same for Daunte (which is "How good will they be", C-Pep's is "Can he be as good as he used to be") and the biggest difference is that he's proven.
                  Curtis Martin is proven and he lost it last season. Kurt Warner was an NFL MVP and he completely lost it out of the blue. Completely disagree that we haven't seen the best of Culpepper talents. 2004 was the best he will get. Chances are very strong that he never has the type of season again. Your completely wrong about Culpepper being proven also. He proved he can run a simple gun slinging style offense in Minnesota. He has yet to prove he can run a cnventional style drop back and read the D style offense that Cam Cameron runs. So whether we bring in a rookie like Quinn or stick with Culpepper the fact is that either has proven they can run Cam's offense. Either way it's a gamble.

                  Originally posted by I'mAHustler View Post
                  I would hate to take Landry at 9 as CBs are much more of a need then safety and Jason Allen hasn't experimented enough to justify starting him at that position.
                  I wouldn't mind movign Jason Allen to CB and having a Goodman and Will Allen start with Travis Daniels and Jason Allen as the future. Despite the fact Allen struggled last season, he still seems to be a bright hardworking kid with some serious upside. The move would also give us more depth at CB and Yeremiah Bell and Renaldo Hill played very well as the starters last season. Landry really wouldn't be a huge need at FS because we have some players there. A mid round draft pick at that spot would be a nice addition if Allen moves to CB and honestly I think that might be the best option.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Joeyjr09 View Post
                    Did you even watch last season? 2.5 seconds to throw? Yea the OL was bad but Culpepper was regualrly holding the ball for 6-7 seconds trying to figure out what to do with it when his main WR was covered. He needs to come to the line already reading the defense and already knowing what his options are even before the ball is snapped. Reading the defense is more then knowing what is goign on during the play. You have to know what to expect from them when you come to the line and know your options when the defense throws something that you don't expect. He shouldn't be sitting back there trying to figure out whats going on around him after the snap and getting sacked. That was part fo the problem. Even Joey Harrington would make his reads much faster and have a better idea of what the defense as doing. Did you notice how much less sacks we gave up when we switch to Joey who had an easier time reading the D and getting rid of the ball faster? While Joey did make a bunch of bonehead plays and really isn't a good QB, at least he didn't looking completely lost while he was on the field the way Culpepper did.
                    http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/sh...ight=culpepper

                    if you want a good read on culpeppers ability last year and how he "held onto the ball too long" thats a great place to look. that is an in-depth post on how culpepper wasnt really to blame for everything last year.

                    sig by BoneKrusher

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                    • Originally posted by Grizzlegom View Post
                      http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/sh...ight=culpepper

                      if you want a good read on culpeppers ability last year and how he "held onto the ball too long" thats a great place to look. that is an in-depth post on how culpepper wasnt really to blame for everything last year.
                      That might have been the most rediculous article I've ever read and if you really believe all the BS, then you really didn't watch the games last year. That article starts off the writer telling you what a huge proponent of Culpepper and loved getting him last season. The article then comes with pages worth of writing and play by play desciptions trying to find any and every way to take blame off Culpepper. Culpepper was equally to blame for the sacks just as the OL. I'm not trying to put the blame all on Culpepper but to take pretty much all the blame away from him and make all those excuses that was made in that article is downright rediculous.

                      Watch the games and gameflim. There was million of times were Culpepper would try to take off running with the ball and try to make a play that wasn't there to be made and ended up in an uneccesary sack or turnover. The author of the article even stated that Joey Harrington had the same kind of OL play that Culpepper did. If that's the case then why did the sack number drop dramatically when Harrington was in the game? He plain and simple got rid of the ball quicker and made his read's quicker.

                      And like I said before. None of that article even addresses the fact that he needs to make some reads before the play. All that article does is make excuses for the sacks blaming bad blocking but what about the fact he should be able to read those defenses before the play and have a general knowledge of what the defense is trying to do in order to aviod that enormous number of sacks.


                      Even when he did get time to throw, he would lock oh to his primary WR and couldnt find any other open options. He didnt read defense to know which players would blitz leaving a WR open and he didn't read well enough to find a secondary WR. He would instead make poor throws that didn't get the job done. I mean how many times did we see him trying to force the ball to Chambers for an incompletion but when he finaly would turn to Booker as a 2nd option, he able to complete the pass for a decent gain?

                      Again not trying to blame Culpepper and it's silly for me to talk about the OL because we all know how awful they were last season but that article which pretty much says all the sacks where the OLs fault is completely wrong. You should be able to watch gams for yourself instead of going on a different message board and using a different fans opinion to back up your arguement.

                      I mean even well respected sportscaster were saying that Culpepper was part of the sack problem. It was clearly obvious to anyone that watched the games which you obviously didn't. Culpepper is not to blame for all the sack but he was clearly part of the problem and has just as much stake in the sacks as the OL, RBs and TEs that couldn't block for him.
                      Last edited by Joeyjr09; 03-07-2007, 08:28 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Joeyjr09 View Post
                        Again not trying to blame Culpepper and it's silly for me to talk about the OL because we all know how awful they were last season but that article which pretty much says all the sacks where the OLs fault is completely wrong. You should be able to watch gams for yourself instead of going on a different message board and using a different fans opinion to back up your arguement.

                        I mean even well respected sportscaster were saying that Culpepper was part of the sack problem. It was clearly obvious to anyone that watched the games which you obviously didn't. Culpepper is not to blame for all the sack but he was clearly part of the problem and has just as much stake in the sacks as the OL, RBs and TEs that couldn't block for him.
                        i wasnt making an argument...the only "argument" i made was that c-pep wasnt fully to blame for everything, which you fully agree with.

                        im sry that i dont tape the games, watch them every night, and analyze them so i can go back and pick apart every strength and weakness...

                        all i said was that is was a good read and that it shows a different opinion that was based on that person watching game film and analyzing each play directly.

                        dont be so negative and act like everyone is attacking you all the time...guilty conscience much?

                        but since we are apparently "presenting arguments" here:
                        actually he said even with the o-line's improvement with harrington under center, the offense still didnt look right. if you think the o-line didnt get better as the season wore on then u didnt watch the games this season. shelton was still our LT when c-pep was the QB and when harrington came in they shifted the line around and they improved vastly. harrington had more time than culpepper and he has a quicker release so that allowed for less sacks. harrington didnt really make any reads either, he pretty much chose someone before the play and forced it to that receiver or threw the ball away.

                        as for reading the defenses to avoid the sacks, its the center's job to do the line calls and hadnot is one of the worst centers in the league at that so how do u know culpepper wasnt reading the blitz and hadnot just wasnt assigning the blockers correctly? honestly its probably a mixture of the two because culpepper was never the sharpest tool in the shed and hadnot makes questionable line calls all the time.

                        regardless...i really think saban deserves most of the blame here...it was obvious that culpepper wasnt fully recovered and had no business being in the games in the first place and i pretty much throw this season out when im evaluating culpepper neway.

                        sig by BoneKrusher

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                        • Originally posted by draftguru151 View Post
                          If the coaches feel Jason Allen can move to CB and be a first round caliber CB then I think it would be smart to move him and then draft LaRon Landry to play FS. But that is a big if, and letting him stay at safety and taking Leon Hall or Chris Houston wouldn't be a terrible thing. In the 2nd round I'd like to pick up an interior lineman, be it Kalil, Blalock, etc, and an OE to back up Jason Taylor and eventually succeed him. Tank Tyler even at 330 isn't really the NT type player and is much more effective at 305. It's still to early in the process both draft wise and FA wise, but as of right now a day one of Hall/Blalock/Moses/Edwards isn't looking that bad.
                          I like Landry a lot. It really makes me interested to know if they think Allen is a fit at CB or not. I think Landry carries less risk than Levi Jones, Brady Quinn, Amobi Okoye, or any of the receivers other than CJ. They can't afford to miss at #9, period. We need a perennial Pro Bowler, there have been way to many wasted picks. If Jason Allen turns into a bust, I'll be beside myself. Then in the second round I think they should go OL and OL, or OL and WR.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Grizzlegom View Post
                            i have very low expectations of jason allen and im honestly not counting on him to even claim a starting job next year
                            What is your thought process on this? I felt like we didn't see enough of him to evaluate. He was a rookie in a complex scheme with minimal playing time. People were even saying he was a top 10 pick without the hip problem. I'm not saying I'm sold, I'm just interested to know why people are so down in him.

                            Comment


                            • [QUOTE=Grizzlegom;199284]actually he said even with the o-line's improvement with harrington under center, the offense still didnt look right. if you think the o-line didnt get better as the season wore on then u didnt watch the games this season.

                              I didn't say the OL didn't improve. In fact to me it was clearly obvious the OL did improve when McIntosh took over. All I'm saying is there is a point in the article where the author states that teh OL was juts as bad under Harrington and I was simply making the arguement that if thats the case then why was th offensive play improved under Harrington?

                              Originally posted by Grizzlegom View Post
                              harrington had more time than culpepper and he has a quicker release so that allowed for less sacks. harrington didnt really make any reads either, he pretty much chose someone before the play and forced it to that receiver or threw the ball away.
                              Harrington i not very good with reads either but he's a quicker decision maker. HE ameks dumb decisions at times but at least he doesn't make no decisions which is what Culpepper was doing for most of the 4 games he played. He could figure out whether to throw it away, run with it or make a play and more often then not it ended in a sack.

                              Originally posted by Grizzlegom View Post
                              as for reading the defenses to avoid the sacks, its the center's job to do the line calls and hadnot is one of the worst centers in the league at that so how do u know culpepper wasnt reading the blitz and hadnot just wasnt assigning the blockers correctly? honestly its probably a mixture of the two because culpepper was never the sharpest tool in the shed and hadnot makes questionable line calls all the time.
                              Agreed but the point I was making is that even if Hadnot makes the wron line call, Culpepper should still be up at the line before the play with a general idea of what the defense likes to do and what his options are when the defense makes there move. More often then not he was not ready when this happen and got caught with his pants around his ankles and no where to go.

                              Originally posted by Grizzlegom View Post
                              regardless...i really think saban deserves most of the blame here...it was obvious that culpepper wasnt fully recovered and had no business being in the games in the first place and i pretty much throw this season out when im evaluating culpepper neway.
                              What about before we got him when he threw 12 picks in a 6 game span at Minnesota? Culpepper looked just as bad if not worse then his time in Miami. Not surprisingly his play has been horrible ever since he stopped playing under Linehan's system. The same system that has made Bulger and Frerotte better then they've ever been and put up career year's under the Linehan system. I hink Culpepper is a system QB that doesn't have the tools to play outside of the system he used to thrive in. Again, I don't think the issues were all his fault last year but the problem was just as much his head as it was his leg and I don't think he's at all a good fit or option for the Dolphins at this point.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by swankdaddy7 View Post
                                What is your thought process on this? I felt like we didn't see enough of him to evaluate. He was a rookie in a complex scheme with minimal playing time. People were even saying he was a top 10 pick without the hip problem. I'm not saying I'm sold, I'm just interested to know why people are so down in him.
                                I think you pretty much explained the anwser to your own question yourself. You said yourself he could be a top ten pick but that he couldn't pick up the scheme and didn't see much playing time on a team that needed DB help. He might turn out to be a great player but right now what has he done to make you not be down on him? All he has done since the day he was drafted as dissapoint and that started with the holdout of camp.

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