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  • #46
    Irons is really, really physical. He's nasty in the press, is a hard hitter, and has speed to hold down big plays.

    I like him a lot.

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    • #47
      Regardless at our pick with the holes we need to fill there are tons of good enough players who could make immediate impacts. As long as the saints draft a position of need in the first round I will be happy.

      If we draft BPA first round I will be upset, especially with the holes on defense the Saints currently have.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by 504 to ATL View Post
        Regardless at our pick with the holes we need to fill there are tons of good enough players who could make immediate impacts. As long as the saints draft a position of need in the first round I will be happy.

        If we draft BPA first round I will be upset, especially with the holes on defense the Saints currently have.
        Well this is what I feel the Saints will do come draft day. Obviously they're going to have their top targets, if they are unable to land those guys. What I think they'll do is try and trade down and look for better value, if they cannot I think they'll definitely go the BPA route. Especially considering looking at the past few years we technically didn't need Will Smith, or Reggie Bush but they were felt to be the Best guys available, and those selections have turned out to pay off huge dividends.

        Honestly I think trying to force yourself into a position where you limit yourself to only a few options at one particular position, is a bad Draft strategy. That's when you end up with a Jonathan Sullivan like situation. (had a huge need at DT, traded up and failed) I think at 27, we'll see them do what worked best the past few years, and go the BPA route. Obviously there are going to be a few exceptions (doubt we'll see a QB, or RB early on)

        Here's a good article on the Saints Draft Strategy, have to register to read but I'll post it here. Saints Looking for Best Option
        As the New Orleans Saints and the other 31 NFL teams inch toward the April 28-29 draft, they are positioning themselves toward choosing what they consider to be the best option when it comes down to selecting college players.

        Every team has a different outlook on exactly where it will address certain weaknesses. But for the Saints, especially early in the draft, they will look to take the best player on the draft board.

        That philosophy is a result of the Saints trading up and selecting Georgia defensive tackle Johnathan Sullivan in 2003.

        Remember in 2002, the Saints came within a heartbeat of making the playoffs. But a late-season collapse in which they lost three straight games and then-coach Jim Haslett’s stubbornness in not replacing injured starting quarterback Aaron Brooks for Jake Delhomme, eventually sealed his fate in New Orleans.

        Haslett desperately wanted a defensive tackle and focused in on the talented, but unmotivated, 310-pound Sullivan.

        Armed with two first-round selections, the Saints packaged those picks to move up 11 spots and select Sullivan.

        When it comes down to bad draft moves, the trade up to select Sullivan has to go down as one of the Saints’ all-time blunders. But it also left a lasting impression on the Saints’ front office to never this poor of a move again.

        Teams will always make poor draft-day decisions because of the inaccuracy in trying to gauge a player’s motivation, work ethic and health issues. But what you are going to see from Saints general manager Mickey Loomis and coach Sean Payton will have more to do with what they have paid for and set up in the offseason than the need for one specific area.

        Loomis has said more than once he wants to address immediate needs through veteran free agency and then have the option, especially early on, to take the best player on the Saints’ draft board.

        This offseason, the Saints have acquired a possible starter in former San Francisco 49ers tight end Eric Johnson -- provided he can stay healthy, a starting inside linebacker in Brian Simmons from the Cincinnati Bengals and a versatile defender in former Bengals safety Kevin Kaesviharn, who will provide solid depth behind projected starters Josh Bullocks and Roman Harper.

        The Saints also traded a sixth-round draft choice to the Miami Dolphins for a very good kicker in Olindo Mare, and signed a solid third wide receiver in veteran David Patten from the Washington Redskins.

        Patten has struggled with injuries the past few years, but if he can stay healthy and fight off age-issues -- he will be 33 years old when the season starts -- he will give quarterback Drew Brees a quick, very experienced sure-handed receiving option.

        Last week, the Saints signed former Houston Texans linebacker Troy Evans, who is known for his excellent play on special teams, and could provide some depth at linebacker also.

        Where the Saints still have a glaring need is at cornerback. Despite efforts to sign free agents Rod Hood, William James and Frank Walker, all three decided to sign elsewhere, and the team is still looking for a seasoned veteran cornerback.

        The Saints have talked with veterans Tory James -- a former LSU Tiger who has played the last four seasons with the Cincinnati Bengals -- and Indianapolis Colts restricted free agent Jason David.

        David has started 49 games over the past three seasons for the world champions, and it would only cost the Saints a fourth-round choice if the Colts opted not to match a potential offer from the Saints to David.

        But what this boils down to is don’t expect the Saints to just focus on drafting a cornerback in Round 1, if the right option is not there.

        If the Saints keep the 27th selection, the worst mistake they can make is force a pick like they did with Sullivan, and pass up a much higher-rated player at wide receiver, defensive tackle or linebacker.

        Despite the fact the Saints were just one game away from their first Super Bowl appearance, this football team has enough holes -- especially on defense -- to not go the route of picking the best player on the board.

        The good football teams in this league stay on top because they draft well and don’t reach for a lower-ranked player just because he could fill a position of need.


        The option of the Saints trading up in the first round for a player they really like is certainly an option. They did this in 2004 when they traded up three spots, (they gave up a first-round pick that year and a third-round choice in 2005), to select Oklahoma offensive tackle Jammal Brown.

        While the Saints still may pick a cornerback in Round 1 if they see a player like Pittsburgh’s Darrelle Revis or Arkansas’ Chris Houston fall a bit. If they don’t trade up to assure themselves the chance of picking one of those match-up cover people, don’t be surprised to see the Saints pick a player like LSU wide receiver Dwayne Bowe, USC wideout Dwayne Jarrett, Tennessee defensive tackle Justin Harrell or Penn State linebacker Paul Posluszny.

        The smart thing to do is pick the best player on the board. Now if the best player is a quarterback, running back or an offensive tackle, I see them passing on these positions, but not a top talent at wide receiver, defensive tackle or linebacker if the right cornerback is not around.


        One former Saints regional scout said while Haslett had a great amount of say at draft time during his tenure, he believes the working relationship with Loomis and Payton is much better.

        "Jim publicly put most of those bad choices on the scouting department, but he had a great say on who this team selected and he was not a good talent evaluator," the former scout said. "To be honest, Jim had very little working respect for anyone in that organization. Sean has a much better eye for talent and he has a certain blueprint for the right player he wants and he doesn’t move off that type performer. When you pick this low in Round 1, you look for a value pick and that probably will not be at cornerback, unless you trade up to pick one. In my opinion the real value choice late in Round One will probably be at wide receiver and maybe even at linebacker. You can focus on need areas with later round picks, but in rounds one and two, I just believe you can’t just focus on a position or two."

        While the Saints still have holes to fill at cornerback, defensive tackle, wide receiver and linebacker, they have made it clear that they will not reach for a certain spot in the first round, and that’s smart.

        Yes, the Saints are in need of a quality cover-corner, but that doesn’t mean they will pick one in the opening round if the right player is not on the board.

        This should make this quite an interesting draft day for the New Orleans Saints.

        DAVID AND THE GOLIATHS

        The Saints’ decision to bring in Jason David for a visit and possible contract talks raised some eyebrows across the NFL.

        David is a good starting cornerback, and he has excelled in the Colts’ Cover-2 defensive scheme. But the 5-foot-8, 174-pounder does not seem to be the exact fit for the New Orleans Saints in defensive coordinator Gary Gibbs’ scheme that emphasizes more man-to-man pressure coverage.

        David has shown he has the foot speed, toughness and ballhawking skills to play in the NFL, his size puts him at a disadvantage in one-on-one coverage downfield against the much larger wideouts in the league.

        One veteran NFL offensive coordinator who has gone up against David quite a few times since the Colts selected him in the fourth round of the 2004 draft said David may be the best option the Saints have at this stage, despite his lack of ideal size.

        "Gary Gibbs likes to play a lot of tight one-on-one coverage sets and while this is not ideal for David, I have gone against him enough to say that he would be a good option for New Orleans," the current AFC offensive coordinator said. "He is not very big and quarterbacks will go after him, if the Saints sign him, due to his lack of size, but he is a very feisty kid and he has excellent foot recovery speed. He is a perfect fit for a team who uses a lot of the Tampa-2 coverage schemes and I am shocked that some team would not make a run at him if all they had to give up was a fourth round choice to acquire him.

        "I have looked at a number of the young cornerbacks in this draft and while guys like Leon Hall, Chris Houston, Darrelle Revis in Round 1 and even players like Marcus McCauley from Fresno State and Alabama State’s Michael Coe later on would fit what the Saints run on defense, there aren’t a lot of these real physical cornerbacks who excel in man-on-man schemes," the coordinator continued. "Jason is a real good kid and an overachiever type player. What jumps out at you about David in my opinion is his quick reaction skills. After I saw what Sean Payton and Gibbs got out of that defense last season, this coaching staff knows the right type players to get and while the fit doesn’t look right on paper, this kid can play."

        NFL analyst Mike Detillier is based in Raceland.
        The bolded parts are IMO the thoughts I'm trying to echo.
        Last edited by Auron; 04-17-2007, 10:53 PM.

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        • #49
          I really really wouldn't want us selecting Justin Harrell.
          The whole world loves neophyte athletic tight end Jimmy Graham from Miami with the 95th pick. "Best pick in the draft,'' one AFC coach told me. "Give him time, and in that offense, he'll be better than [Jeremy] Shockey by the start of next year.''

          “We know that no matter the adversity, be it the lockout, be it the suspension or be it a hurricane, our men will pull together and defend the honor of this city. We’ve shown we’ve been able to do that.” - Jabari Greer

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Flyboy View Post
            I really really wouldn't want us selecting Justin Harrell.
            Just curious, but how come? Personally he's not my ideal choice but if the Saints were in a situation where their primary targets are off the board and they selected him I wouldn't be be opposed to it.

            He's very athletic, and quick for a big guy his size. Can disrupt plays in the backfield, good tackler who plays the run well.

            However the most impressive thing about this kid IMO is his character. He's described as a hard worker, with top intangibles. Someone who will play through pain to help his team. UT Sports: Harrell In this video his teammates, and coaches talk about his leadership qualities by leading by example, in the way he handles himself on and off the field.

            I think he's pretty much the polar opposite of a guy like Sullivan, who was unmotivated, and had a questionable work ethic.
            Last edited by Auron; 04-18-2007, 01:53 AM.

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            • #51
              Question:

              as much as the Saints need help at various LB cores why Pouz over Timmons from FSU, that is if he is still availible?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by 504 to ATL View Post
                Question:

                as much as the Saints need help at various LB cores why Pouz over Timmons from FSU, that is if he is still availible?
                Good question. I think with Timmons, it's a case of higher upside vs. bust potential. He has great "potential" but is also very inexperienced and a team taking him is gambling that he'll be able to reach it.

                While on the other hand with Posluszny you pretty much know what your getting, a blue-collar, instinctive LB. Who might not have the amazing athletic talent, but he goes out and gets the job done anyway.

                Personally the more I watch of Jon Beason the more I like. He's going to have to bulk up a bit, but he reads the plays well and snuffs them out.

                Comment


                • #53
                  I wouldn't mind Harrell, honestly.

                  A good young DT is a big need for the Saints and Harrell is really solid.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Out of the linebackers that might fall to us:
                    1. Jon Beason
                    2. Lawrence Timmons
                    3. Paul Posluszny

                    CB, Beason, Timmons or Harrell would be nice. Or maybe a WR if a good one falls to us.



                    Sveen's 2015 NFL Draft Spreadsheet

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                    • #55
                      My Big board for the Saints
                      LB.
                      Willis (somehow please Jesus let him fall)
                      Beason
                      Timmons
                      Puz

                      WR
                      Ginn
                      Meachem
                      Bowe
                      Rice (2nd round or trade down)

                      CB
                      Revis
                      Hall
                      Houston
                      Ross
                      McCauley (trade down)

                      DT
                      Harrell

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                      • #56
                        Am I the only one that doesn't like Ginn? I mean, hes fast, but thats about all I think he has going for him.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by TigerBait45 View Post
                          Am I the only one that doesn't like Ginn? I mean, hes fast, but thats about all I think he has going for him.
                          I'm not particularly high on him. Blazing speed but the questions about his hands, and route running kind of worry me. (it would be like having another Devery Henderson)

                          However he is an explosive threat in the return game, which I do like. With Michael Lewis aging that is an area that could use improvement. However I don't believe a return man is worth burning a 1st rounder for.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by TigerBait45 View Post
                            Am I the only one that doesn't like Ginn? I mean, hes fast, but thats about all I think he has going for him.
                            Originally posted by Auron View Post
                            I'm not particularly high on him. Blazing speed but the questions about his hands, and route running kind of worry me. (it would be like having another Devery Henderson)

                            However he is an explosive threat in the return game, which I do like. With Michael Lewis aging that is an area that could use improvement. However I don't believe a return man is worth burning a 1st rounder for.
                            Yeah, I was going to post that I'm not sold on Teddy Ginn either, but Auron beat me to it. Like he said, Ginn seems to be a little too much like Devery Henderson, and we don't need another speed wide receiver. Rather, we need someone like a possession receiver, like possibly a Steve Smith from Southern Cal or a Craig Davis from LSU.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by TigerBait45 View Post
                              Am I the only one that doesn't like Ginn? I mean, hes fast, but thats about all I think he has going for him.
                              Not big on Ginn at all -- he has all the potential in the world, but for me he's just too raw for my tastes. Ginn is one of the few players that if we select on draft day I'd be highly upset.
                              The whole world loves neophyte athletic tight end Jimmy Graham from Miami with the 95th pick. "Best pick in the draft,'' one AFC coach told me. "Give him time, and in that offense, he'll be better than [Jeremy] Shockey by the start of next year.''

                              “We know that no matter the adversity, be it the lockout, be it the suspension or be it a hurricane, our men will pull together and defend the honor of this city. We’ve shown we’ve been able to do that.” - Jabari Greer

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Saints Dome Patrol View Post
                                Rather, we need someone like a possession receiver, like possibly a Steve Smith from Southern Cal or a Craig Davis from LSU.
                                Haha yeah I have posted the same thing, it is so true thats all the Saints need. You know what you are getting with those guys, no bust potential.

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