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  • Some feedback from a Cowboys fan

    Hello, Giants fans. Not coming to talk smack. Not my style.

    However, I wanted to get some of you guys take on the enourmous amount the media pushing the Giants really hard.

    I'm well aware that the boys didn't finish the year strong, but outside of the NE game, I don't think the Giants can say they are the hottest team in the league either. Certainly, TO is the ultimate wild card here. I'm also interested as to whether you Giants fans reall feel like Eli has "arrived" like much of the media is saying?

    Again, I'm not trying to talk smack; I just think the matchups really favor the Cowboys and I'm really perplexed as to why everyone thinks the Giants will win. I think the Giants are more than capable of winning the game; I just wonder if the roles were reversed and the Giants were 13-3 and playing at home, how many of them would pick Dallas?
    In war, you win or lose, live or die - and the difference is just an eyelash.


    -Douglas MacArthur

  • #2
    Originally posted by Macarthur View Post
    Hello, Giants fans. Not coming to talk smack. Not my style.

    However, I wanted to get some of you guys take on the enourmous amount the media pushing the Giants really hard.

    I'm well aware that the boys didn't finish the year strong, but outside of the NE game, I don't think the Giants can say they are the hottest team in the league either. Certainly, TO is the ultimate wild card here. I'm also interested as to whether you Giants fans reall feel like Eli has "arrived" like much of the media is saying?

    Again, I'm not trying to talk smack; I just think the matchups really favor the Cowboys and I'm really perplexed as to why everyone thinks the Giants will win. I think the Giants are more than capable of winning the game; I just wonder if the roles were reversed and the Giants were 13-3 and playing at home, how many of them would pick Dallas?
    For the most part the media blows up things and overhypes whatever point they trying to make ad-nauseam. I think the point with the Giants is that without a doubt they are playing their best football at this time while Dallas simply isn't. As a big, and hopefully somewhat reasonable Giants fan, here are the reasons why I am looking forward to this game and think the Giants have a very good shot.

    1- Eli Manning has for the first time ever played 2 complete games in a row. Both were nationally scrutinized, both were against tougher passing defenses then they will be facing Sunday. Some rumors have surfaced (notably Phil Simms commented yesterday) that they have scaled back the option routes and simplified the playbook. If that is true then there is no reason to think the Eli's new ability to pumpfake and make decisive reads can't be maintained. Eli has also played Dallas better then any other team in the NFL he has faced dating back to his rookie year when he got his first win against them.

    2- The Giants have an 8 game road winning streak and they tend to play better on the road.

    3- Our special teams have been as good as any in the league over the last month.

    4- We have run the ball well on pretty much every team we faced and Ahmad Bradshaw has been a revelation.

    5- The Cowboys may not have TO/he will be slowed down at minimum

    6- The Cowboys, including Romo, are not playing their best football (1 rushing yard vs. Wash in a game they did put forward effort)

    7- Wade Phillips in a big game is a welcomed sight.

    Now to be fair here are the aspects of the game that scare me

    - Dallas has a good pass rush and will blitz a lot more TB (Ware scares me)

    - We haven't been able to get pressure on Romo, however if Owens doesnt play this is nullified

    - The big Dallas D line could hurt Pierce and the weak center of our defense

    - Lawrence Tynes isn't exactly a huge kicker

    thats about all I have and I would be interested to see your reaction.

    Comment


    • #3
      I certainly agree with you about the media.

      I think your points are quite reasonable. I do have some counter points on a couple.

      Originally posted by Giants Pride View Post
      For the most part the media blows up things and overhypes whatever point they trying to make ad-nauseam. I think the point with the Giants is that without a doubt they are playing their best football at this time while Dallas simply isn't. As a big, and hopefully somewhat reasonable Giants fan, here are the reasons why I am looking forward to this game and think the Giants have a very good shot.

      1- Eli Manning has for the first time ever played 2 complete games in a row. Both were nationally scrutinized, both were against tougher passing defenses then they will be facing Sunday. Some rumors have surfaced (notably Phil Simms commented yesterday) that they have scaled back the option routes and simplified the playbook. If that is true then there is no reason to think the Eli's new ability to pumpfake and make decisive reads can't be maintained. Eli has also played Dallas better then any other team in the NFL he has faced dating back to his rookie year when he got his first win against them.
      Eli certainly shows flashes. However, how many times have we heard the "Eli has turned the corner" type of thing. And yes, he has played well against Dallas this year, but still lost both of those games by double digits.

      2- The Giants have an 8 game road winning streak and they tend to play better on the road.
      Again, that one loss was to...

      3- Our special teams have been as good as any in the league over the last month.

      4- We have run the ball well on pretty much every team we faced and Ahmad Bradshaw has been a revelation.
      Agreed.

      5- The Cowboys may not have TO/he will be slowed down at minimum
      He will play. Reports today are that he had full participation in practice and favored the ankle early in practice, but late in practice was cutting and running full speed. However, it is reasonable to think he will not be 100%, but I'm not sure he needs to be 100%.


      6- The Cowboys, including Romo, are not playing their best football (1 rushing yard vs. Wash in a game they did put forward effort)
      Half-truth.

      Although some starters did play into the 3rd quarter, Dallas did not put forth an effort to win that game on the field or in the gameplan. They clearly mailed that one in.

      I also think the "not playing thier best football" is a bit overblown. I would agree they weren't beating teams like they were earlier in the year. However, I think that's a function of playing a tougher schedule. Every team they played late in the year was either playing to get into the playoffs or for positioning within the playoffs.

      I will give you the Philly game. That was a clunker.

      However, they racked up 400+ yards on Carolina and was on pace to put up 30+ pts. before TO left the game.

      The defense struggled a bit at Detroit, but the offense scored 28 and Witten fumbled on the 1 going in or they would have scored 35.

      So I would agree partially that the offense has had a few hickups. However, with the exception of Detroit, the defense has actually been getting stronger at the end of the year. Our secondary is as healthy as it has been all year long.

      7- Wade Phillips in a big game is a welcomed sight.
      We'll see. You think Coughlin is a better coach than Phillips?

      Now to be fair here are the aspects of the game that scare me

      - Dallas has a good pass rush and will blitz a lot more TB (Ware scares me)
      Really, Dallas doesn't blitz much. Bringing 5 for their 3-4 is not a blitz. They just bring people from lots of different areas so it looks like they are blitzing, but most of the time they bring the 3 linemen & 2 OLBers.

      - We haven't been able to get pressure on Romo, however if Owens doesnt play this is nullified
      This is where I think this has been a big mismatch for NY. Their strength is their pass rush and the strength of the Dallas OL is pass blocking. This will be a critical part of the game. If Romo has time, the Giant secondary can be exposed. I think the Giants have to get SACKS because Romo actually can hurt you worse if he's flushed out of the pocket.

      - The big Dallas D line could hurt Pierce and the weak center of our defense
      Dallas' run defense has been good this year.

      Laurence Tynes isn't exactly a huge kicker
      While I've been happy with our kicker, he is a rookie so that worries me.
      In war, you win or lose, live or die - and the difference is just an eyelash.


      -Douglas MacArthur

      Comment


      • #4
        I'll just throw a few thoughts your way, I'm heading out for the night but I'll get back to you on whatever you have to say.

        This game is almost impossible to predict because there are to many X-factors. We have yet to see Terry Glenn within this offensive scheme and all this talk about TO ia making everybody overlook Glenn...but I actually go into this game fearing him more than a 80% TO. We can be beat deep, no doubt about it, and that is Glenn's specialty. We are going to be so consumed with Witten and TO underneath (rightfully so) and the thought of Butler being responsible for keeping Glenn in front of him scares me. On the flip side, you guys have yet to take on Bradshaw. I have been always been hesitant with young players who show potential unlike some others. I never bought into EJ Underwood or Jonas Seawright....but this kid can flat out dominate. I think he is a much better back than Jacobs right now...and looking towards the future I think we're gonna end up talking about him as the steal of the 2007 draft. Power, speed, agility, vision, burst...he has it all. Cowboys defense is not suited for that kind of attack.

        Regarding Eli...there have been numerous "He has turned it around" stories over the years but the past two weeks he has shown ability to do certain vital aspects of being a QB that he never has before. The playbook and coaching here has perhaps been the wall that has stood in between him and consistency. They just recently simplified the playbook and Gilbride has been doing a better job calling plays. I'm not ready to tell you he has "arrived"...but you can't sit there and tell me you'd be surprised to see him come in and there and take one away from Dallas. He is a good QB that has improved every year in the league, he is a winner. You cannot discount that.

        I hated how the Cowboys finished in 2006, and it showed in Seattle. I hated how they ended this season, and I think it has a possibility of creeping back in again. I'll have my game preview up tomorrow...maybe I'll paste it here for you to go over.

        Either way it's gonna be helluva game.
        Originally posted by Paul
        Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
        Originally posted by Vikes99ej
        These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
        MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
          I'll just throw a few thoughts your way, I'm heading out for the night but I'll get back to you on whatever you have to say.

          This game is almost impossible to predict because there are to many X-factors.
          Yeah, I could see many different scenarios playing out.


          We have yet to see Terry Glenn within this offensive scheme and all this talk about TO ia making everybody overlook Glenn...but I actually go into this game fearing him more than a 80% TO. We can be beat deep, no doubt about it, and that is Glenn's specialty. We are going to be so consumed with Witten and TO underneath (rightfully so) and the thought of Butler being responsible for keeping Glenn in front of him scares me.
          I don't think Glenn really has to do much to be a factor. If he has his speed, that's really all he needs to be a factor, IMO. Any plays he makes are just gravy. The best thing about him being back is that it puts Crayton back to his natural position in the slot.


          On the flip side, you guys have yet to take on Bradshaw. I have been always been hesitant with young players who show potential unlike some others. I never bought into EJ Underwood or Jonas Seawright....but this kid can flat out dominate. I think he is a much better back than Jacobs right now...and looking towards the future I think we're gonna end up talking about him as the steal of the 2007 draft. Power, speed, agility, vision, burst...he has it all. Cowboys defense is not suited for that kind of attack.
          He certainly has been a nice surprise for you guys. And again, I'm not trying to flame, but if the game comes down to Bradshaw against our defense, I like our odds.


          Regarding Eli...there have been numerous "He has turned it around" stories over the years but the past two weeks he has shown ability to do certain vital aspects of being a QB that he never has before. The playbook and coaching here has perhaps been the wall that has stood in between him and consistency. They just recently simplified the playbook and Gilbride has been doing a better job calling plays. I'm not ready to tell you he has "arrived"...but you can't sit there and tell me you'd be surprised to see him come in and there and take one away from Dallas. He is a good QB that has improved every year in the league, he is a winner. You cannot discount that.
          Oh, he's capable of playing like an elite QB. The problem is what he throws out the next week.

          Maybe he has "turned the corner"; we'll see. I certainly think he is capable of winning. I guess my point of starting the thread at all is that he has played well against Dallas and still lost, yet the media is still falling all over themselves to pick NY.

          I hated how the Cowboys finished in 2006, and it showed in Seattle. I hated how they ended this season, and I think it has a possibility of creeping back in again. I'll have my game preview up tomorrow...maybe I'll paste it here for you to go over.

          Either way it's gonna be helluva game.
          Yeah, I hate the way we ended the year, too! ;)

          It is, without question, the most interesting game of the weekend, IMO.
          Last edited by Macarthur; 01-10-2008, 03:53 PM.
          In war, you win or lose, live or die - and the difference is just an eyelash.


          -Douglas MacArthur

          Comment


          • #6
            I predicted before the season that the Cowboys would win the NFC East Division, but wouldn't reach the SB. I think I must be a psychic.

            Fact of the matter is that the Giants should by all logic, win this game. It's nearly impossible for any team to beat another team 3 times in the same season. Especially in a match up like this. Two evenly matched opponents. Giants are the hot team, Cowboys are the cold team. During our bye week, our players have been goofing around. Crayton got married, the whole team was probably there celebrating... while Romo and Witten were in Cabo vacationing with the Simpsons. If the Cowboys pull this one out of their butt, then we just might beat the Patriots. That's the kind of luck we'll be smelling under their shoes.

            Giants should roll. Home field means nothing. Giants have beaten us here plenty of times in the past and nothing will come as a surprise or distraction.

            Comment


            • #7
              What logic, D-Unit?

              Does the fact that they have lost to Dallas twice by double digits not count as logic?

              As for the beating 3 times, it actually has happened about 66% of the time (something like 11 of 16). I'll try to find that link. Also, the four times this has happened in the 2000's, 3 of the 4 teams completed the 3 game sweep.

              2000 Giants beat Philly
              2002 Steelers beat Cleveland
              2004 Rams beat Seattle
              Only the 2004 Packer lost to the Vikings
              Last edited by Macarthur; 01-10-2008, 04:23 PM.
              In war, you win or lose, live or die - and the difference is just an eyelash.


              -Douglas MacArthur

              Comment


              • #8
                First off I just want to say it is nice to have a reasonable conversation with an opposing fan right before a huge rivalry game. Here are a few of my retorts to your post.

                Originally posted by Macarthur View Post
                Eli certainly shows flashes. However, how many times have we heard the "Eli has turned the corner" type of thing. And yes, he has played well against Dallas this year, but still lost both of those games by double digits.
                We have all read numerous times that "Eli has Arrived" but just as we talked about before, that was mostly the media overblowing a few of his more impressive wins (@Philly, Denver, etc.). This time is different for several reasons. If you think back to his better games, unlike the past 2 games which I referenced, he was inconsistent. He had a miserable first half in the Philly OT game. The past 2 games Eli has not had anything more than a bad series here and there, which every qb other then Brady has. They were also his 2 most pressure filled games, in my opinion. The other impressive feet about these last 2 games is that they weren't games where he thrived on a big play or inflated stats. The majority of his stats came at important times with crucial plays. Against TB he was something like 6/8 on 3rd down, and many of those were over 7 yards as our running game was non existent until the second half. In the NE game he even had a few bad drops on his WRs. Our WR corp (especially without Shockey) is very pedestrian but like Brady did all of those years with Jabar Gaffney, Andre Caldwell, Troy Brown, Eli is finding the open man and keeping drives alive.

                Originally posted by Macarthur

                Half-truth.

                Although some starters did play into the 3rd quarter, Dallas did not put forth an effort to win that game on the field or in the gameplan. They clearly mailed that one in.

                I also think the "not playing thier best football" is a bit overblown. I would agree they weren't beating teams like they were earlier in the year. However, I think that's a function of playing a tougher schedule. Every team they played late in the year was either playing to get into the playoffs or for positioning within the playoffs.
                I can't speak to all of the games Dallas played down the stretch, the Redskin and Carolina games were the only ones I saw. My only point is that there was a stretch of the season where the Dallas offense was on a level close to NE. The last few games it has not been remotely close to that level. Whatever the case may be, it has looked out of sync. That is not to say you guys couldn't easily hang 35 up on us.

                With the Redskin game, I also think you are a little underselling the effort you guys put forth. Wade even kept the starters in longer then he planned to try to get a little bit of success before the playoffs but they simply couldn't get anything going.

                Originally posted by Macarthur

                We'll see. You think Coughlin is a better coach than Phillips?
                Yes. Yes. and Yes. He is 1-2 now as the Giant head coach however with Jax he had plenty of success in the playoffs. And the 2 losses the Giants had in the playoffs under him were more defensive issues. Eli scored with 2 min left last year to take the lead on Philly but Tim Lewis' defense folded (as it always did) and vs. Carolina we started 3 LB's basically off the street (Kevin Lewis, Roman Phifer, Griesen).

                Phillips meanwhile has never won a big game and has invented new ways to lose (Music City Miracle).


                Originally posted by Macarthur
                Really, Dallas doesn't blitz much. Bringing 5 for their 3-4 is not a blitz. They just bring people from lots of different areas so it looks like they are blitzing, but most of the time they bring the 3 linemen & 2 OLBers.
                You guys might not blitz much, but TB was one of the least blitzing teams in the NFL. They got to Eli a few times but he was not under siege nearly as much as he has been at times this year. Spencer, Ware, Canty, and co. could force Eli into some sloppy plays.

                Originally posted by Macarthur

                This is where I think this has been a big mismatch for NY. Their strength is their pass rush and the strength of the Dallas OL is pass blocking. This will be a critical part of the game. If Romo has time, the Giant secondary can be exposed. I think the Giants have to get SACKS because Romo actually can hurt you worse if he's flushed out of the pocket.


                I agree with you. I personally think the Giants would probably be best served blitzing selectively and settling into coverage. Last year Romo was only average from the pocket and if you kept him contained he had trouble making plays, though this year he has looked much better in that regard.

                Either way these are 2 teams that are very similar and evenly matched. Dallas' team has proven more and has more talent when it comes down to it, but not as much more as you would think judging by pro bowl numbers (what is it 12-2?). With the momentum/karma the Giants have going, the development of a few potential impact makers, and the TO injury status this should make for one hell of an exciting game.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here's a question. Do you believe in game to game momentum? I don't. I believe and understand "in-game" momentum, but I don't care if a team is coming off a 10 game winning streak, that has nothing to do with winning the next game. The Giants have been getting hyped as the team with all the momentum because of their past wins. I'm not going to believe that that is going to help them this weekend.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                    Here's a question. Do you believe in game to game momentum? I don't. I believe and understand "in-game" momentum, but I don't care if a team is coming off a 10 game winning streak, that has nothing to do with winning the next game. The Giants have been getting hyped as the team with all the momentum because of their past wins. I'm not going to believe that that is going to help them this weekend.
                    Its not a question of the hype momentum they are getting. I think every Giant fan would tell you that we would rather not getting any pub going into the game. The momentum is coming from the confidence and rhythm the Giants offense is gaining (specifically Eli and the playcalling) and the emergence of a few key players (Boss, Bradshaw, Plax looks healthy, Toomer has had 2 big games in a row, Gerris Wilkerson, and to a much lesser extent Corey Webster). Also our special teams play over the last 2 months has been among the best in the league.

                    Also as an aside, I think game to game momentum has to be looked at on a case by case basis. In 2000, there was no question that Giant team developed a swagger from when they were 8-4 to eventually get to 12-4. By the same token you can look at the Colts last year who were miserable going into the playoffs but "turned on the switch" when the playoffs came. I think sometimes we just look at results (like the Redskins this year) and think that because a team won "x" number of games in a row they have momentum. When you look at the Skins they just hit some teams at the right time (Cowboys no TO and nothing to play for etc.). The Giants on the other hand have really seemed to change in the last 2 games. I know the Bucs are a bad offensive team, but the most important development for the Giants is Eli Manning's play and against the best turnover defense in the league he was completely in control.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Giants Pride View Post
                      Its not a question of the hype momentum they are getting. I think every Giant fan would tell you that we would rather not getting any pub going into the game. The momentum is coming from the confidence and rhythm the Giants offense is gaining (specifically Eli and the playcalling) and the emergence of a few key players (Boss, Bradshaw, Plax looks healthy, Toomer has had 2 big games in a row, Gerris Wilkerson, and to a much lesser extent Corey Webster). Also our special teams play over the last 2 months has been among the best in the league.

                      Also as an aside, I think game to game momentum has to be looked at on a case by case basis. In 2000, there was no question that Giant team developed a swagger from when they were 8-4 to eventually get to 12-4. By the same token you can look at the Colts last year who were miserable going into the playoffs but "turned on the switch" when the playoffs came. I think sometimes we just look at results (like the Redskins this year) and think that because a team won "x" number of games in a row they have momentum. When you look at the Skins they just hit some teams at the right time (Cowboys no TO and nothing to play for etc.). The Giants on the other hand have really seemed to change in the last 2 games. I know the Bucs are a bad offensive team, but the most important development for the Giants is Eli Manning's play and against the best turnover defense in the league he was completely in control.
                      I can understand the growth and development of the team and chemistry, but I can't say the team that shows up to play this Sunday is the same Giants team that showed up against the Bucs last Sunday. Just the same as I know that the Giants team we faced in Week 1 was different from the team that we faced in Week 10 and it'll be a different team again this weekend.

                      You guys have to feel good about yourselves heading into this game. In fact, I consider you guys the favorites. All the logic points to you guys winning. All the analysts out there are favoring you guys for all the right reasons. ...and those guys love to be right.

                      That said. I know the Boys will win.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        D I know you are trying to use the cautiously optimistic here....but come on now. Giants are the favorites? I think this is the toughest of all the games to call this weekend but the Cowboys personell is flat out better. Eli played well in both matchups, and we still lost by 10+ points both times. He is often pointed to as the X factor but in all honesty, it's on our defense. A defense that relies on it's line, a line that has been dominated by the Cowboys offensive line. Add to that....our #1 CB is likely out, negating the whole TO issue.

                        The Giants are basically going to need a special teams TD of defensive TD to win this game I think...something really has to go our way. Or the refs can decide NOT to call outrageous holding penalties on TDs.
                        Originally posted by Paul
                        Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                        Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                        These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                        MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've really enjoyed the solid exchange. Here's hoping for a great game.
                          In war, you win or lose, live or die - and the difference is just an eyelash.


                          -Douglas MacArthur

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i really really want to discuss this with you guys. its great to have a convo like this going. but im superstitious, and i won't talk about the Giants (outside of draft/FA talk) until our season is over.

                            having that said, Dallas is the team to beat until proven otherwise. this year is the exact opposite to last year for dallas. last year, everything that could go wrong, went wrong.

                            this year, everything is bouncing Dallas's way. i still think theyre the favorite to go to the SB until proven otherwise.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
                              D I know you are trying to use the cautiously optimistic here....but come on now. Giants are the favorites? I think this is the toughest of all the games to call this weekend but the Cowboys personell is flat out better. Eli played well in both matchups, and we still lost by 10+ points both times. He is often pointed to as the X factor but in all honesty, it's on our defense. A defense that relies on it's line, a line that has been dominated by the Cowboys offensive line. Add to that....our #1 CB is likely out, negating the whole TO issue.

                              The Giants are basically going to need a special teams TD of defensive TD to win this game I think...something really has to go our way. Or the refs can decide NOT to call outrageous holding penalties on TDs.
                              Eli has typically played exceptionally well against us. He's been frustrating as an opposing fan to see constantly slip by our pass rush. This year has been a little different from year's past because we actually got to him, but I still remember the other Eli. If that guy shows up, this game will be a war.

                              That said... Anthony Henry loves to play against Eli. I'm glad he's healthy.

                              People keep talkin up the absence of TO. I think WRs are overrated. If you have a good QB and he gets protection, the ball will move downfield.

                              The use of Julius Jones scares me more than anything. He needs to be limited. Let Barber tote the rock and we should be able to counter the Giants pass rush and control the time of possession.

                              Comment

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