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  • #61
    Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
    Coaches still have some say in who they want.

    I agree that we need speed on offense. In fact, the biggest issue last year was that our WRs couldn't get separation.

    The wide recievers I mentioned aren't exactly small either. They are all right around 200 pounds. They all have good height, good hands, good speed. Add Jason Hill to that list also. I don't think Ginn can be a solid #2 reciever, because there is no way he is going over the middle at 178 pounds. That limits him to the same role that Moss is limited to, Slot WR and KR. While we do have a need at WR, we don't have a need at slot reciever.

    Moss can be effective over the middle as seen in his senior year at Miami. But anyway, Ginn's highlights are almost all him going deep but if you have the tapes on his games in their entirety, he was across the middle quite a bit. Tough kid too who will put his body out there and grab the ball. Putting him in the middle would really open up things downfield for Plax because his presence will always be on the minds of safeties, his speed is that unreal.

    Plus, his return ability alone could be argued for 1st round credibility, many think he is better than Hester in that regard. Just keep that in mind.
    Originally posted by Paul
    Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
    Originally posted by Vikes99ej
    These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
      Moss can be effective over the middle as seen in his senior year at Miami. But anyway, Ginn's highlights are almost all him going deep but if you have the tapes on his games in their entirety, he was across the middle quite a bit. Tough kid too who will put his body out there and grab the ball. Putting him in the middle would really open up things downfield for Plax because his presence will always be on the minds of safeties, his speed is that unreal.

      Plus, his return ability alone could be argued for 1st round credibility, many think he is better than Hester in that regard. Just keep that in mind.
      He may be similar to Hester but to expect nearly what Hester did in returns this past year is stretching it. Id be perfectly happy with Steve Smith or Anthony Gonzalez- both of whom can make a big impact on our team. I dont see the necessity to stretch for a WR 1st round when we have other needs and get great quality a little later on.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
        Moss can be effective over the middle as seen in his senior year at Miami. But anyway, Ginn's highlights are almost all him going deep but if you have the tapes on his games in their entirety, he was across the middle quite a bit. Tough kid too who will put his body out there and grab the ball. Putting him in the middle would really open up things downfield for Plax because his presence will always be on the minds of safeties, his speed is that unreal.

        Plus, his return ability alone could be argued for 1st round credibility, many think he is better than Hester in that regard. Just keep that in mind.
        It's not about whether he has the courage to go across the middle, it's about whether his small frame can take that kind of beating. In college he could use his athleticism to get away from LBs and Safties in the middle, that won't happen in the NFL. There are only a select few small WRs that can handle the middle of the field. Our best bet is to draft a Amani Toomer clone. I know that doesn't sound very appealing, but a young Toomer would be great. Dwayne Jarrett posted a 4.67 and 4.62 at his workout, that drops him into round 2, and maybe all the way down to 51 overall considering how packed this WR class is.

        Concerning return ability, I believe that the entire special teams unit is more important that the returner himself. Buzz lightyear himself wouldn't get anywhere returning with those guys blocking for him. There was absolutly no place to go.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
          It's not about whether he has the courage to go across the middle, it's about whether his small frame can take that kind of beating. In college he could use his athleticism to get away from LBs and Safties in the middle, that won't happen in the NFL. There are only a select few small WRs that can handle the middle of the field. Our best bet is to draft a Amani Toomer clone. I know that doesn't sound very appealing, but a young Toomer would be great. Dwayne Jarrett posted a 4.67 and 4.62 at his workout, that drops him into round 2, and maybe all the way down to 51 overall considering how packed this WR class is.

          Concerning return ability, I believe that the entire special teams unit is more important that the returner himself. Buzz lightyear himself wouldn't get anywhere returning with those guys blocking for him. There was absolutly no place to go.

          How many games did Ginn miss in college?
          Originally posted by Paul
          Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
          Originally posted by Vikes99ej
          These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
          MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

          Comment


          • #65
            Don't take it personally when I say this Number 10, but I would punch Jerry Reese (as much as I love him for what he's done so far) right in the face if he drafted Ted Ginn Jr. in the first round for us.

            Sure he's got great speed, but Sinorice offers that. Not only that, but the thing I believe that seprates Sinorice from Ginn is that Moss is not afraid to go up and grab the ball in the air, even if he is only 5'8. From I've seen from Ginn, and I've watched many Ohio State games with him playing and if a ball is high or out infront of him he doesn't make a real effort to go out and attack it.

            It's why Steve Smith is such a great receiver in the NFL, not only because of his burning speed, but because he's not afraid to go up and grab the ball even though he hasn't got ideal height.

            I'm really a fan of taking Brandon Myles out of West Virgina in the 4th round. Impressed me at the Senior Bowl a lot in the red zone and one on one drills. He's about 6 feet, and ran a 4.41. I think he's that perfectly balanced receiver we need. Has good speed, decent height and catches over the middle and in the redzone very well. Somewhat reminds me of a faster, slightly smaller Amani Toomer.
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            • #66
              Originally posted by Forenci View Post
              Don't take it personally when I say this Number 10, but I would punch Jerry Reese (as much as I love him for what he's done so far) right in the face if he drafted Ted Ginn Jr. in the first round for us.

              Sure he's got great speed, but Sinorice offers that. Not only that, but the thing I believe that seprates Sinorice from Ginn is that Moss is not afraid to go up and grab the ball in the air, even if he is only 5'8. From I've seen from Ginn, and I've watched many Ohio State games with him playing and if a ball is high or out infront of him he doesn't make a real effort to go out and attack it.

              It's why Steve Smith is such a great receiver in the NFL, not only because of his burning speed, but because he's not afraid to go up and grab the ball even though he hasn't got ideal height.

              I'm really a fan of taking Brandon Myles out of West Virgina in the 4th round. Impressed me at the Senior Bowl a lot in the red zone and one on one drills. He's about 6 feet, and ran a 4.41. I think he's that perfectly balanced receiver we need. Has good speed, decent height and catches over the middle and in the redzone very well. Somewhat reminds me of a faster, slightly smaller Amani Toomer.
              I don't take it personally at all....I think this would be a great pick.

              Sinorice Moss is fast, so what? Having 2 burners on the field would pay huge dividends for Plax and Shockey, and you can never have too much speed on an offense. We haven't had enough speed on this team for way too long and putting Ginn on the roster for the next 10 years with Moss solves that. Speed is the most lethal weapon in football, and we need more of it. Ginn has speed that does not come around very often and we may be in a spot to grab him, can't pass him up.
              Originally posted by Paul
              Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
              Originally posted by Vikes99ej
              These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
              MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

              Comment


              • #67
                I wouldnt pass on Ginn either. At worst, he is gonna be a top 5 kick returner and a good slot reciever.

                I think he will be a nice player. I didnt like the Moss pick cause he simply doesnt have the size.

                But I think we need more size at WR. That seems to be what Eli likes

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
                  I wouldnt pass on Ginn either. At worst, he is gonna be a top 5 kick returner and a good slot reciever.

                  I think he will be a nice player. I didnt like the Moss pick cause he simply doesnt have the size.

                  But I think we need more size at WR. That seems to be what Eli likes
                  Disagree there. I like Ginn, but he is a boom or bust prospect. Even the best kick returners are only dominant for a 2-4 year stretch. Look at Dante Hall. He had a few great years and then faded. Also some of them (Az Hakim, Hester, Hall) never develope another niche. Ginn has better skills then those guys but he has almost as unpolished. Hes a hard worker, and will have some impact right away on ST but other then that he is a project.

                  If we traded back to 30 and got him I would be fine with it. I wouldn't use our #20 pick on anything other then a guy who will be a defensive starter (Houston, Nelson, Willis, Poz) day 1. There are too many good players that if "said player" isn't there I would trade back to 30-35 range and get 2 extra picks (2nd and a 3rd/4th or a 2nd next year).

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                  • #69
                    Im not a fan of taking Ginn 1st round personally. I think hes too raw and we have too many other pressing needs that need to be taken care of. Hes an interesting prospect and definently is worth looking at but i dont think its the smartest move for our team. Because is very raw, chances are he wouldnt make the largest impact this year and i feel with this team and how we are aging a bit we need to win now. I love Earl Everett 2nd round- i think thats a fantastic pick, hes going to be a great player. 1st round CB should be addressed if we can get everett 2nd round, like revis houston or hall if available. I do not know anything about rocky boiman so if you could say what team he was on, stats, anything would be helpful. I also think o line needs to be addressed earlier also. Your mock is very interesting and has some good points, but i think the key positions need to be addressed first and foremost. The only WR outside of calvin johnson i would want round 1 is robert meachem- ginn is just too risky and we need to hit a homerun round 1.

                    I agree with you on the Ginn pick. Not a fan at all. As for the trade the Jets, I dont see them wanting Finn because they just signed Darian Barnes. But I am not a fan of Ginn and would actually be pissed if we got him or DJ.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
                      I wouldnt pass on Ginn either. At worst, he is gonna be a top 5 kick returner and a good slot reciever.

                      [b]I think he will be a nice player. I didnt like the Moss pick cause he simply doesnt have the size. [/n]

                      But I think we need more size at WR. That seems to be what Eli likes
                      Moss 5'8" 180
                      Ginn 5'11" 178 - Even worse because he's lanky.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
                        Moss 5'8" 180
                        Ginn 5'11" 178 - Even worse because he's lanky.
                        And we have Shockey and Burress as the big, possession type receivers already. Why add onto that?
                        Originally posted by Paul
                        Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                        Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                        These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                        MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
                          And we have Shockey and Burress as the big, possession type receivers already. Why add onto that?
                          Burress is not a possesion receiver... The guy is a game changer. same with Shockey, although to a lesser extent since hes a TE.


                          If we get a guy like Dwayne Jarrett, we are gonna have monsters at receiver. Toomer's 6 foot 3, Burress is 6 foot 5, Jarrett is 6 foot 4, plus Moss's blazing speed to switch it up a little.

                          Look at the Eagles for instance. They dont have a CB who's over 5-10. They only have 1 DB whos over 5-10 (Brian Dawkins, 6 foot)

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                          • #73
                            I say we get a guy that's right in the middle 5-11 to 6-2 and between 190 and 210 with good speed and reliable hands. This draft is packed with those types of WRs. I don't understand why we'ed want another Sinorice Moss type of WR. If you follow my analogy, it's like adding Tony Hunt to the backfield. There is just no need for it.

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                            • #74
                              See, my biggest problem with us taking Ginn in the first would be..we have other needs. I mean, can you truly say, even if Amani doesn't recover, that receiver is a first round need? I can't. We've got way too many other holes in our defense to even consider taking a receiver in the first day, much less the first round, doesn't seem like it's going to happen.

                              We can live with out a superb receiver to replace Burress and Amani, however, without a good corner we'll end up in the same frame as last year - doing well offensively and getting burnt on the defense

                              I'm actually a big fan of trading down to the Chargers, Bears, or Colts and perhaps picking up Joe Staley or Aaron Ross.

                              If we get someone like James Marten, Brandon Myles, and Durant/Bradley in the later rounds we could really take care of the needs.

                              Anyway you cut it though, receiver is not a first round need, I don't care how much speed Ginn brings to the table or how many points he scores, because it's not going to matter when your defense is getting beat deep or your quarterback is on his back.

                              Again, that's just my opinion, and you could be right, maybe we could use another burner, but at this point, if we can fill two or three holes we could be a good playoff contender this year.

                              Then next year we can pick up a good receiver in the first as it's looking to be pretty strong next year too.
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                              • #75
                                http://the-omniscient.atspace.com/giantsmock.html

                                My new mock draft.

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