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The Official G-Men 2011 NFL Draft Thread

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  • I like Prince's aggressiveness, and his ability to tackle and his versatility. What scares me about him is his short arms and he grabs a lot. Prince would grab an awful lot in college. He can't do that in the pros, he'll get flagged every time.

    He also bites at double moves a lot. That will improve over time, I think he'll be a solid CB, he won't be a Revis, I felt that Peterson or Smith had that potential, but Prince is a very solid CB who can at the very worst be a very good #2 CB, and with our depth at CB that's more than enough.

    He'll eventually become our 2, slide TT to nickel, and we probably don't resign Ross.

    It was a good pick, I used to be upset that we chose him over Smith, but after reading more about Smith's character, I think choosing Prince was the right move.

    Austin...I just can't sell myself on him. Everytime I watch him he gets abused. He wanted to get paid, so he gave a damn in the East West Shrine Game and dominated, and we fell for it. I read all the fluff articles this offseason, as Im sure many of you have as well, but I try not to read into those too much. We see those every offseason. Sure, his character isn't an issue, he's no Jimmy Smith, but his laziness and lack of effort on the football field is. It's one thing if he was JPP and had elite athleticism with minimal experience and a high motor, but this guy is just lazy.

    That's why I loved JPP. His motor. The guy was raw, but he was athletic and had a great work ethic. Can we say the same for Austin? I think it was a good sign that the dude stayed in excellent shape during his suspension which shows some commitment, and he dominated the EW Shrine Game, but every time I watch his games, I come away very unimpressed.

    Hopefully the "light" turned on for him, but it's definitely a risk.

    Beyond the first 2 rounds, I usually stay skeptical for the rest of the draft. This was a weak draft class, I think it's unrealistic of us to expect a lot from anyone else.

    I'm anticipating Jerrigan to be a great returner, but not much more than that for at least his first 2 years in the league, I expect the OT from Indiana to need a solid 2 years to develop if he does, so he's going in our farm system. The rest seem like good STers to me.

    I think overall the class is good, and we have some great potential from some guys, I really liked our first 4 rounds outside of Austin, but at the same time, we have to keep in mind that typically, a great draft lands you 3 to 4 quality players, and in a weak draft class like this one, I'll be satisfied with 2 good players.

    I think we'll get production out of 3 players in this draft. I'm guessing Prince is solid but not shut down, Jerrigan develops into a decent slot and a reliable returner, and Brewer develops into a solid RT or swing OT for depth. That's my expectations, I hope more comes from it, but if that's what we get, I'll be satisfied.

    Comment


    • If we can draft an offensive player next year in the first round.. I will sport wood and be satisfied.

      Comment


      • Next year could potentially be a very very good LB draft. I think we finally pull the trigger on a LB in the 1st next year.

        The only offensive players we need are OL, RB, and possibly TE. I doubt we go TE, we always get mid round RBs, and we've shown a history of grabbing developmental OL in the mid rounds and putting them in our farm system instead of drafting NFL ready linemen in the 1st.

        Truth be told, if Beatty develops and Brewer develops, we probably won't need OL next year. It depends on how those 2 develop. I think the staff believes in Koets at C.

        Comment


        • NOoooo! NOOOOoOOo nOOOOooOoo! OFFENSE! Not a LB! NOOOOOO!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
            NOoooo! NOOOOoOOo nOOOOooOoo! OFFENSE! Not a LB! NOOOOOO!
            Depends on what happens. If Beatty and Koets entrench themselves as starters this season where do we add an offensive player? We're set at QB, WR and if those two step up alongside some progress from Petrus and Brewer our OL and running game should not be a problem. Add a great defense alongside that Offense and we're a superbowl team.

            BK

            Originally posted by AcheTen
            JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
            Originally posted by abaddon41_80
            Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
            Originally posted by JBCX
            Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

            Comment


            • While our oline was an issue last year, we managed with it. And most of the problem was we were witnessing a "changing of the guard" along the oline during a season rather than during the offseason. I believe in our young guys, and I feel that you don't really need a dominant oline when you have a deep WR core anyway.

              Look at GB. Their oline is mediocre at best, and their run game is far worse than ours. But they counter that with spread sets and quick passes with that WR core and they won a SB.

              Our oline will never be dominant, but it can be good enough. The Giants philosophy is getting blue chip guys in the middle rounds and letting them develop chemistry, and having a solid blue collar unit up front. I don't agree with it, but i understand where they are coming from. You have to treat the oline as a single unit, not 5 individuals, and sometimes cohesion and development over time can overcome any physical shortcomings.

              To me, when I study the Giants, the most glaring need is clearly linebacker. Our LB core is so mediocre. Getting 1 or even 2 playmakers at the LB position would GREATLY improve our defense.

              We're solid up front and in the back end, but if you don't have linebackers, you can't defend the middle of the field. And if you break down the Giants defense, they've struggled to defend the middle of the field for the past 2 years. And probably will again this year.

              The middle is WIDE OPEN against our defense. All the time. Bc we lack the LBs to patrol that middle. It's going to continue to become an issue this season as well. It doesn't go away on its own, we need linebackers to fix this problem and we haven't went out and got any.

              So it's going to take some very intelligent scheming by Fewell to counter this, but realistically, the deep post will be open all day every day vs us all season long, just like it was last year and the year before.

              So LB is clearly my #1 need on our board, and I doubt that's changing from now till April.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rosebud View Post
                Depends on what happens. If Beatty and Koets entrench themselves as starters this season where do we add an offensive player? We're set at QB, WR and if those two step up alongside some progress from Petrus and Brewer our OL and running game should not be a problem. Add a great defense alongside that Offense and we're a superbowl team.
                RB..

                If good value comes WR, or any other offensive spot. We drafted a CB and DT this year, and a damn DE and another DT last year. So if it can be done. It's not like we needed those positions.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
                  RB..

                  If good value comes WR, or any other offensive spot. We drafted a CB and DT this year, and a damn DE and another DT last year. So if it can be done. It's not like we needed those positions.
                  Yes we did. Ross is walking next year so we needed a CB, Osi was coming off of a **** season and kiwi was still a question mark so we needed JPP, our depth at DT is still pretty weak unless Joseph becomes the beast we all hope and Austin's head really is out of his ass, especially with Cofield likely to walk this year. We certainly had needs at those positions. Whereas at WR the only possible need is if Smith walks this year or mario does next year, in which case we've already snagged Jernigan to groom for that job. RB could be a need, but lets wait until after FA to see what happens, personally I was a big fan of the Scott pick in the third.

                  BK

                  Originally posted by AcheTen
                  JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
                  Originally posted by abaddon41_80
                  Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
                  Originally posted by JBCX
                  Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

                  Comment


                  • We absolutely needed a DE, DT, and a CB. As stated, Ross is gonna be a FA, so is TT, and Web is getting closer to 30 as we speak.

                    With today's league, you need 3 very good CBs to have a good defense. So building depth at CB is a must.

                    As for DT, we're paper thin in depth. Canty thus far has been average, Bernard sucks, and Coffield is gone. We needed 2 DTs. Hell, we might need another. You need 4 DTs to have good depth. Right now we'll have 3 legit DTs on the roster coming into the season. We could use another if you ask me.

                    And DE, Tuck is always hurt, Kiwi is always hurt and will be a FA casualty in all likelihood, and Osi was coming off a poor season post ACL. And with our belief in having 3 great DEs to rotate, we absolutely needed JPP for our longterm success of our dline.

                    You don't draft for a year. You draft players for the future. We've established depth along our dline and secondary for the foreseeable future, which is key for having a consistently good defense. Now defensively, we can focus on establishing our LB core for the future.

                    This is a team that is built on a philosophy that revolves around having a dominant defense. That's been the identity of the Giants since their creation. That will not change. This team will always put an emphasis on defense over offense.

                    And rightfully so. Defense wins championships.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Rosebud View Post
                      Yes we did. Ross is walking next year so we needed a CB, Osi was coming off of a **** season and kiwi was still a question mark so we needed JPP, our depth at DT is still pretty weak unless Joseph becomes the beast we all hope and Austin's head really is out of his ass, especially with Cofield likely to walk this year. We certainly had needs at those positions. Whereas at WR the only possible need is if Smith walks this year or mario does next year, in which case we've already snagged Jernigan to groom for that job. RB could be a need, but lets wait until after FA to see what happens, personally I was a big fan of the Scott pick in the third.
                      No we didn't. Good, That's next year! Right now we have Webster, TT, Ross and Johnson. It's not like CB was a need. Osi was coming off injury, but we still had Tuck, Kiwi and Tolly, who has played well. Again, DE was NOT a need.

                      We wanted someone who can be our McCluster, or Hixon 2.0. Jerrigan was the BPA and Reese said we wanted to get faster. And so we did. Even on the defensive side of the ball we did too.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
                        No we didn't. Good, That's next year! Right now we have Webster, TT, Ross and Johnson. It's not like CB was a need. Osi was coming off injury, but we still had Tuck, Kiwi and Tolly, who has played well. Again, DE was NOT a need.

                        We wanted someone who can be our McCluster, or Hixon 2.0. Jerrigan was the BPA and Reese said we wanted to get faster. And so we did. Even on the defensive side of the ball we did too.
                        Look, Ross is always hurt anyway, even if he weren't an FA. Maybe if he were locked up long term it wouldn't be a round one need, but with his injuries, Web's age and TT's struggles this season we absolutely needed another corner. As BBD said, you need at least 3 good corners to match up with the better offenses in the NFL, we had 2.5 good ones.

                        Tuck is another injury prone player who we need a strong back up for, Kiwi didn't really play up to his talent until this past offseason, now us moving him around was a big part of that, but he was still a question mark and Tolly is nothing more than average. You can't have a great D with an old DE coming off a serious injury that hampered his season, an injury prone DE and guy who has been moved around between DE and LB too many times to establish himself, especially when that young unproven guy and the old guy where fast approaching their contract's expiration.

                        Plus you don't draft for one year, very few rookies are able to step in and play consistently well, that's why you need to draft for the future so that you can work guys through a lot of their rookie issues before having to rely on them.

                        BK

                        Originally posted by AcheTen
                        JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
                        Originally posted by abaddon41_80
                        Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
                        Originally posted by JBCX
                        Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
                          No we didn't. Good, That's next year! Right now we have Webster, TT, Ross and Johnson. It's not like CB was a need. Osi was coming off injury, but we still had Tuck, Kiwi and Tolly, who has played well. Again, DE was NOT a need.

                          We wanted someone who can be our McCluster, or Hixon 2.0. Jerrigan was the BPA and Reese said we wanted to get faster. And so we did. Even on the defensive side of the ball we did too.
                          Listen guy. I'm gonna save you a lot of pain and suffering right now. When April of next year rolls by, you will accept your mid round developmental OG/C, your mid round RB, and mid round TE and you will deal with it mister! :p

                          Come on Boss, you know that's how it's going to play out. You know the drill by now, first 2 rounds will be defense, then you'll get your project offensive players in the mid rounds and some height/weight/speed guys in the late rounds and be happy with it.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                            Listen guy. I'm gonna save you a lot of pain and suffering right now. When April of next year rolls by, you will accept your mid round developmental OG/C, your mid round RB, and mid round TE and you will deal with it mister! :p

                            Come on Boss, you know that's how it's going to play out. You know the drill by now, first 2 rounds will be defense, then you'll get your project offensive players in the mid rounds and some height/weight/speed guys in the late rounds and be happy with it.
                            Yes'm sir... I know it's going to be that too!

                            Defense
                            Defense
                            Offense
                            Defense
                            Defense
                            Offense
                            Offense or Defense

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Rosebud View Post
                              Look, Ross is always hurt anyway, even if he weren't an FA. Maybe if he were locked up long term it wouldn't be a round one need, but with his injuries, Web's age and TT's struggles this season we absolutely needed another corner. As BBD said, you need at least 3 good corners to match up with the better offenses in the NFL, we had 2.5 good ones.

                              Tuck is another injury prone player who we need a strong back up for, Kiwi didn't really play up to his talent until this past offseason, now us moving him around was a big part of that, but he was still a question mark and Tolly is nothing more than average. You can't have a great D with an old DE coming off a serious injury that hampered his season, an injury prone DE and guy who has been moved around between DE and LB too many times to establish himself, especially when that young unproven guy and the old guy where fast approaching their contract's expiration.

                              Plus you don't draft for one year, very few rookies are able to step in and play consistently well, that's why you need to draft for the future so that you can work guys through a lot of their rookie issues before having to rely on them.

                              Tuck has been in the past with shoulder stuff, but is fine now. Yes, ross is always hurt, which is why he never was a starter. He has been passed over. He has been fine health wise, but I don't see him winning the position either as 1 or 2. He is still under contract ANd we have Bruce Johnson who showed promise. Point being CB was a luxury pick because of BPA, not a need.

                              You are drafting BPA and it has nothing to do with need or that year. Now, if that value fits a need within that specific grade or tier system, then so be it. Like Coughlin and Ross always say. But it's BPA.

                              We never usually give rookies a shot anyways. Coughlin tends to redshirt our rookies and then play them.

                              Comment


                              • Exactly, if we're redshirting rookies anyway we should be targetting soon to be needs like DE was when we drafted Kiwi or JPP or the way CB was this draft.

                                BK

                                Originally posted by AcheTen
                                JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
                                Originally posted by abaddon41_80
                                Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
                                Originally posted by JBCX
                                Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

                                Comment

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