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  • #31
    Originally posted by Crickett View Post
    The Jets OL is average? The Jets are "OK" at running back? Yeah, you seem to need one of these.



    There you go.






    Upgrades all over the defense and coaching staff and the Jets are looking at 1-4 at best? Time to wake up from your dream world and re-enter reality.




    Yes troll, that was the worst part of the trade. Giving up the two worst already replaced starters on the defense, and a backup quarterback. Riiiiiiiiiiight. It wasn't giving up all of the picks that was the bad part, it was giving up the scrubs. But you are a Dolphins fan, so you should be familar with scrubs given that your starting quarterback has the weakest arm in NFL history.

    Go back to the dolphins forum and swoon over Pat White, your third second round backup QB in three years.
    Gee thanks, you find me some clues, and I'll help find you some wins. Try Buffalo in game 6. Maybe.

    Sure you upgraded the defense, I said as much. But so did New England with Darius Butler, Ron Brace, Sean Springs, Leigh Bodden, Patrick Chung, Tyrone McKenzie and Myron Pryor. So did Miami with Gibril Wilson, Eric Green, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, Tony McDaniel and perhaps Jason Taylor. Even Buffalo added Aaron Maybin, Jayrus Byrd, and Nic Harris. So adding Bart Scott, Lito Sheppard, and Jim Leohnard is nice, but it didnt happen in a vaccum.

    But it gets better. The Pats also added Fred Taylor, Joey Galloway, Greg Lewis, Brandon Tate and some OL depth, 2 Ts and a G IIRC. Oh and some guy named Brady, too. Miami added Jake Grove, Joe Berger, Pat White, Pat Turner and Brian Hartline to the offense. Not all that impressive, but theyre alot better than the guys who were available last year, when Miami won the East, ended your season, and Mangini's/Favre's Jets careers, all in one afternoon. The Bills added T.O. and Dominic Rhodes, plus they upgraded thier interior O line nicely. The Jets? They got a green (no pun intended) QB, a back-up RB, and a reserve O lineman, while losing thier top WR. And they traded away three role players to do it. Again, if youre taking a wider view of things, you ought to notice that the Jets moved down the pecking order this offseason, not up.

    And you can clown Pennington all you want, but he is the main reason Miami won the division last year. He had the 2nd highest passer rating in the league. While Favre, his replacement, was throwing your season into the hands of Andre Goodman and Phillip Merling, Chad was moving the chains, protecting the ball, and managing the game. He did it all year. And he'll have a better supporting cast this year, by the way.

    As for the picks vs. the players, and which is more valuable. I'd say at least with players, you know what youre getting. Abram Elam is a good player, better than Jim Leonhard imo. But Mangini wants guys who know his system, and Ryan wants the same thing, so its a wash. The point is that when trade three players (four if you count the 2nd rounder) for one guy, that one guy had better be VERY good. Is Sanchez very good? Who knows. But the list of junior QB's coming into the league and struggling is very long, and Sanchez is no Manning, Palmer, or Roethlisberger. I think even you would admit that. He wont have any good WRs to throw to, and he wont have a great O line to protect him either. He'll have a live defense, and a decent running game, but so will Chad, and so will Tom. The Fins and Pats were both better than the Jets last year, two games better. You guys havent done anything to close the gap, and I'll put up four digits to say the gaps gotten wider.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by derza222 View Post


      Yeah taking Sanchez was a risk, but EVERYONE knows it and we really didn't give up a whole lot to do it. A second that was in no mans land for what we and three backups? It's worth the shot at this point, we obviously were not comfortable with the situation. Your post was really an unnecessary trolling post that was almost entirely your own personal opinion, I'm really not sure why you posted anything at all other than to be an ass.

      Also, Ryan apparently told Tannenbaum at Sanchez's workout that he was their guy, so he was not thrust on him.
      Truth hurts, what can I say? And its not trolling when its true. You guys gave up alot for Sanchez, who media hype aside, is NOT a sure thing. The tab was three players, four if you count the 2nd round pick. Another poster mentioned that Elam, Coleman and Ratliff arent very good, and I wont disagree. But three roster spots is three roster spots, and where are you going to find replacements? Undrafted free agents and scrap heap veterans, thats where. Its going to hurt your depth no matter how you slice it. Its also going to hurt your depth to go an entire draft with no net additions to your roster. You added three, you lost three. Thats terrible, and it will haunt you for years, take it from me, because Dave Wanstedt was the king of the useless draft class down here.

      Plus Sanchez is going to demand Matt Ryan type money. 6yrs, 72 million IIRC. All for a QB that MIGHT be good. He certainly wont be great, not with the suspect supporting cast he has. And Shonn Greene? You cant tell me it makes sense to trade three MORE picks for another player, and a RB at that. Especially for a team with a solid starter and back-up. Maybe if there was a top rated WR available I could understand, but RBs come a dime a dozen, and the Jets shouldve been trading down to accumulate picks, not moving up to make what amounts to a luxury selection. Call me a troll all you want, but I'll be stopping through from time to time to check on you Jets fans. I think a few "I told you so's" will be in order.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by starwitness View Post
        Gee thanks, you find me some clues, and I'll help find you some wins. Try Buffalo in game 6. Maybe.

        Sure you upgraded the defense, I said as much. But so did New England with Darius Butler, Ron Brace, Sean Springs, Leigh Bodden, Patrick Chung, Tyrone McKenzie and Myron Pryor. So did Miami with Gibril Wilson, Eric Green, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, Tony McDaniel and perhaps Jason Taylor. Even Buffalo added Aaron Maybin, Jayrus Byrd, and Nic Harris. So adding Bart Scott, Lito Sheppard, and Jim Leohnard is nice, but it didnt happen in a vaccum.

        But it gets better. The Pats also added Fred Taylor, Joey Galloway, Greg Lewis, Brandon Tate and some OL depth, 2 Ts and a G IIRC. Oh and some guy named Brady, too. Miami added Jake Grove, Joe Berger, Pat White, Pat Turner and Brian Hartline to the offense. Not all that impressive, but theyre alot better than the guys who were available last year, when Miami won the East, ended your season, and Mangini's/Favre's Jets careers, all in one afternoon. The Bills added T.O. and Dominic Rhodes, plus they upgraded thier interior O line nicely. The Jets? They got a green (no pun intended) QB, a back-up RB, and a reserve O lineman, while losing thier top WR. And they traded away three role players to do it. Again, if youre taking a wider view of things, you ought to notice that the Jets moved down the pecking order this offseason, not up.
        Ron Brace an upgrade over any of the Patriots d-linemen? Leigh Bodden an upgrade over........ anybody? Adding people doesn't mean you've upgraded your defense. When the Dolphins brought in Daunte Culpepper, was that an upgrade?

        You mention the Jets brought in a backup RB, well, I'll say this. I hope all of the rookies you listed for the Dolphins, Patriots and Bills start. Because almost every single one you listed would be a downgrade. Ron Brace starting over Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren or Richard Seymour would be a godsend. So would Pat White starting anywhere on the Dolphins.

        Lito Sheppard is a pro bowl corner, and as much as I like Dwight Lowry, Lito is a huge upgrade. Eric Barton's day was done long ago and Bart Scott is a huge upgrade.

        Who does Joey Galloway provide an upgrade over?

        Who does Pat White provide an upgrade over?

        Who does Pat Turner provid......... I can't finish that sentence, I'm laughing too hard.




        Originally posted by starwitness View Post
        And you can clown Pennington all you want, but he is the main reason Miami won the division last year. He had the 2nd highest passer rating in the league.
        Really? I thought it was all of the "smoke and mirrors". Good luck getting that to work a second year.




        Originally posted by starwitness View Post
        As for the picks vs. the players, and which is more valuable. I'd say at least with players, you know what youre getting. Abram Elam is a good player,
        lol, so Abram Elam is good, while pro bowl running back and AFC leading rusher Thomas Jones is "ok". Yeah, go troll somewhere else.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by starwitness View Post
          Truth hurts, what can I say? And its not trolling when its true. You guys gave up alot for Sanchez, who media hype aside, is NOT a sure thing. The tab was three players, four if you count the 2nd round pick. Another poster mentioned that Elam, Coleman and Ratliff arent very good, and I wont disagree. But three roster spots is three roster spots, and where are you going to find replacements? Undrafted free agents and scrap heap veterans, thats where. Its going to hurt your depth no matter how you slice it. Its also going to hurt your depth to go an entire draft with no net additions to your roster. You added three, you lost three. Thats terrible, and it will haunt you for years, take it from me, because Dave Wanstedt was the king of the useless draft class down here.

          Plus Sanchez is going to demand Matt Ryan type money. 6yrs, 72 million IIRC. All for a QB that MIGHT be good. He certainly wont be great, not with the suspect supporting cast he has. And Shonn Greene? You cant tell me it makes sense to trade three MORE picks for another player, and a RB at that. Especially for a team with a solid starter and back-up. Maybe if there was a top rated WR available I could understand, but RBs come a dime a dozen, and the Jets shouldve been trading down to accumulate picks, not moving up to make what amounts to a luxury selection. Call me a troll all you want, but I'll be stopping through from time to time to check on you Jets fans. I think a few "I told you so's" will be in order.
          Trolling is trolling, and you're trolling. We KNOW Sanchez is a risk and we KNOW that trading up hurts our depth. We've been discussing it through this entire thread. We've been questioning the trade up for Shonn Greene. At this point as fans we can do nothing but hope that the convictions of our front office are right, as questionable as they may have been. There's really nothing to "I told you so", so if you do come back and tell me "I told you so" when I understand what you're saying, that is trolling.

          Despite that, you underrate the defense and run game that we have, and I think it's premature to say we're 0-5 or 1-4 before training camp, let alone before a game has been played. I'm not telling you we won't be because that would be premature and overly cocky, I'm telling you it's early to say that. And I've really got nothing more to add to this discussion.

          Comment


          • #35
            Ron Brace an upgrade over any of the Patriots d-linemen? Leigh Bodden an upgrade over........ anybody? Adding people doesn't mean you've upgraded your defense. When the Dolphins brought in Daunte Culpepper, was that an upgrade?

            Brace is slated as the number two NT, behind Vince Wilfork. Based on his draft grade/position, he's a starting caliber nose that can provide excellent depth, and insurance in case Wilfork bolts after this season when his contract expires.

            Leigh Bodden is an upgrade over Deltha Oneal, Johnathan Wilhite, Terrance Wheatley, and the rest of the scrubs NE had at corner last year. They were last in the league in allowing 3rd and long conversions by the way. Also, adding Sean Springs made Ellis Hobbs expendable, he was then traded to Philly for 2 draft picks.

            Daunte Culpepper didnt work out b/c he never fully recovered from his ACL tear, but Gus Frerotte was the QB before that so thats really not a good example. Nice try though.

            You mention the Jets brought in a backup RB, well, I'll say this. I hope all of the rookies you listed for the Dolphins, Patriots and Bills start. Because almost every single one you listed would be a downgrade. Ron Brace starting over Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren or Richard Seymour would be a godsend. So would Pat White starting anywhere on the Dolphins.

            Now who's trolling? I already explained why Brace is an upgrade. And you cant possibly think Pat White is going to start, but I'll indulge you b/c its fun. White is being brought in to run the Wildcat, which worked well in 08' until teams started bringing 8-9 guys into the box to stop it. B/c White has a respectable arm, using an 8-9 man front vs the wildcat will be a huge risk. Pat ran a version of the wildcat his entire career at West Virginia, so he wont need much coaching on it. Nor will the rest of the team, since we ran it all last year. Opposing teams on the other hand, will have to spend large amounts of time devising a scheme to stop it, which will take away from thier ability to prepare for our other packages. Ronnie Brown was the wildcat trigger man last year, this year its Pat White, so yeah, I'd call it an upgrade.


            Lito Sheppard is a pro bowl corner, and as much as I like Dwight Lowry, Lito is a huge upgrade. Eric Barton's day was done long ago and Bart Scott is a huge upgrade.

            Correction, Lito Sheppard WAS a Pro Bowl corner. Did you see him play last year? He's still an upgrade over Lowery and Law though.

            Who does Joey Galloway provide an upgrade over?

            Perhaps you should bone up on your football knowledge. Galloway is being brought in as a third/fourth WR. His job will be to run deep, clear out, and maybe take advantage of teams who focus too hard on Moss and Welker. The Pats didnt have a deep threat last year, unless you count Moss, who's doubled on almost every play.

            Who does Pat White provide an upgrade over?

            Ronnie Brown. See above.

            Who does Pat Turner provid......... I can't finish that sentence, I'm laughing too hard.

            If you watched any Miami games last year, maybe the PLAYOFF game we lost, you'd have noticed we didnt have ANY possession WR's. Turner is 6'5" 230, he has decent hands, and decent route running ability. His size will allow him to do the dirty work over the middle and he'll also be a redzone threat, two things we were sorely missing last year. Working across from Ted Ginn, who drew alot of doubles, Davonne Bess and Greg Camarillo caught a combined 107 passes last year. Turner and Hartline are both bigger and better players. And with Cotchery, Smith and Stuckey as your WRs, I wouldnt be laughing, I'd be wondering why my team didnt draft some recievers as well.


            Really? I thought it was all of the "smoke and mirrors". Good luck getting that to work a second year.

            Smoke and mirrors refers to the Wildcat, Chad just played his butt off last year. He made plays, protected the ball, and moved the chains just enough to win games, and win the division. Will it work this year? Who knows, but Pat will be runnin the wildcat, and our WRs will be much improved, so we'll see.

            lol, so Abram Elam is good, while pro bowl running back and AFC leading rusher Thomas Jones is "ok". Yeah, go troll somewhere else. :rolleyes

            I see youve taken the OK out of context, probably on purpose, but just in case: Thomas Jones is over 30, which is a cardinal sin as a RB. Leon Washington is a decent backup and an excellent 3rd down back, but he's not an every down guy. So the Jets are "OK" at the RB position. Either way, it was professional negligence to trade three picks for Shonn Green.

            1300 yds for one player is wonderful. But some teams would rather not run thier RB into the ground by giving him all of the carries. Miami split carries between Brown (214) and Williams (160) while Jones carried it 290 times to just 76 for Washington. Suit yourselves, I just hope for your sake that Jones doesnt catch Sean Alexander disease. A lil FYI, Ronnie and Ricky ran for 1575 yds. T Jones and Leon Washington ran for 1760. New England led the division in rushing yds @ 142 ypg (6th). The Jets had 125 (9th), Miami (11th)118, and the Bills (14th) 114. You could learn alot from a troll...

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by starwitness View Post
              Brace is slated as the number two NT, behind Vince Wilfork. Based on his draft grade/position, he's a starting caliber nose that can provide excellent depth, and insurance in case Wilfork bolts after this season when his contract expires.
              Yes, he can sit on the bench, just like Marquise Hill did (r.i.p. :().


              Originally posted by starwitness View Post
              Leigh Bodden is an upgrade over Deltha Oneal, Johnathan Wilhite, Terrance Wheatley, and the rest of the scrubs NE had at corner last year.
              Quick reminder, Leigh Bodden spent last year helping Detroit becoming the first 0-16 team ever. Biiiiiiiiiiiiig upgrade there.


              Originally posted by starwitness View Post
              Daunte Culpepper didnt work out b/c he never fully recovered from his ACL tear, but Gus Frerotte was the QB before that so thats really not a good example. Nice try though.
              So the answer is no.

              Originally posted by starwitness View Post
              Now who's trolling?
              You.


              Originally posted by starwitness View Post
              I already explained why Brace is an upgrade. And you cant possibly think Pat White is going to start, but I'll indulge you b/c its fun. White is being brought in to run the Wildcat, which worked well in 08' until teams started bringing 8-9 guys into the box to stop it. B/c White has a respectable arm, using an 8-9 man front vs the wildcat will be a huge risk. Pat ran a version of the wildcat his entire career at West Virginia, so he wont need much coaching on it. Nor will the rest of the team, since we ran it all last year. Opposing teams on the other hand, will have to spend large amounts of time devising a scheme to stop it, which will take away from thier ability to prepare for our other packages. Ronnie Brown was the wildcat trigger man last year, this year its Pat White, so yeah, I'd call it an upgrade.
              And Ronnie Brown did very well as the wildcat trigger man. If Pat White provides an upgrade, who does he provide an upgrade over that actually plays, since its so obvious that he's not going to be in the starting lineup?


              Originally posted by starwitness View Post
              Perhaps you should bone up on your football knowledge. Galloway is being brought in as a third/fourth WR. His job will be to run deep, clear out, and maybe take advantage of teams who focus too hard on Moss and Welker.
              He's 80 years old (not literally), and like Daunte, who knows if he'll be able to come back 100% from the injury he had.

              Originally posted by starwitness View Post
              The Pats didnt have a deep threat last year, unless you count Moss, who's doubled on almost every play.


              Yes, unless you count the best deep threat in the game, they don't have one. Right.

              Originally posted by starwitness View Post
              Who does Pat Turner provid......... I can't finish that sentence, I'm laughing too hard.

              If you watched any Miami games last year, maybe the playoff game WE LOST, you'd have noticed we didnt have ANY possession WR's. Turner is 6'5" 230, he has decent hands, and decent route running ability. His size will allow him to do the dirty work over the middle and he'll also be a redzone threat, two things we were sorely missing last year.
              His size will aloow him to do the work over middle, and he'll also be a redzone threat, something the Dolphins didn't have......... okay.

              Brandon London 6'4 210
              Ernest Wilford 6'4, 225
              Anthony Fasano 6'4 250

              Yes, I'm sure that extra inch in height will allow him to do what these three couldn't.


              Originally posted by starwitness View Post
              I see youve taken the OK out of context, probably on purpose, but just in case: Thomas Jones is over 30, which is a cardinal sin as a RB. Leon Washington is a decent backup and an excellent 3rd down back, but he's not an every down guy. So the Jets are "OK" at the RB position. Either way, it was professional negligence to trade three picks for Shonn Green.
              I'll say this. I'll take Shonn Green over the fins 3rd, 4th and 7th round picks any day. And thats saying something because the Jets REALLY need WR help. And while Leon Washington isn't an every down back, hey, they got Shonne Green, a perfect complement to him. And Thomas Jones, yeah, people doubted him last year too after a lackluster 2007. We (we being Jets fans) knew it was due to poor o-line play. You (you being not a Jets fan, and a dolphins fan to boot) didn't.

              I said good day sir.

              Comment


              • #37
                Trolling is trolling, and you're trolling. We KNOW Sanchez is a risk and we KNOW that trading up hurts our depth. We've been discussing it through this entire thread. We've been questioning the trade up for Shonn Greene. At this point as fans we can do nothing but hope that the convictions of our front office are right, as questionable as they may have been. There's really nothing to "I told you so", so if you do come back and tell me "I told you so" when I understand what you're saying, that is trolling.

                Despite that, you underrate the defense and run game that we have, and I think it's premature to say we're 0-5 or 1-4 before training camp, let alone before a game has been played. I'm not telling you we won't be because that would be premature and overly cocky, I'm telling you it's early to say that. And I've really got nothing more to add to this discussion.


                Some of the guys on this forum are WAY too sensitive. What kind sports fan doesnt like a little smack talk? Im sorely dissapointed, talkin smack is as much a part of football as the Tampa 2!

                I dont know how much else I can say in prasie of your defense. In theory, or on Madden 10, its one of the best in the league. But in practice, things are more complicated than just how good your players are. How good your defense is also depends on how good your offense is. How many points is your offense giving your defense to work with? Are you playing defense with a lead, forcing teams to pass, or from behind, when offenses are more unpredictable? Is your offense allowing your defense time to rest with long, time consuming drives? Or leaving them out to dry with three and outs and turnovers? Is the ST unit providing good kicks and good coverage to give opposing offenses poor field position? In terms of winning games, all of these matter just as much as how good your defensive players are.

                That brings me back to Sanchez/Clemens, and which type of offense the Jets will have. Unless you upgrade the WR spot, you wont have any reciever that requires a double team. That means you'll be running against 8 man fronts the majority of the time, and even the best running teams struggle when teams can crowd the line of scrimmage. On the other hand, if you have good WRs (Moss & Welker for example) to keep the safeties away from the line, you can finish 6th in rushing on the legs of NFL legends like Sammie Morris, Kevin Faulk, and Ben Jarvis Green Ellis.

                Your first five games include the Pats and Titans at home, and the Texans, Saints and Fins on the road. I see 1-4/0-5 and of course its too early to tell what will happen. But its also to early to tell who had a good draft class, or if Sanchez (or any draftpick/free agent) will pan out. Its too early to tell if Rex Ryan is a good head coach, or if Bart Scott's and Jim Leonhard's success were products of playing next to hall of famers (Ray Lewis/Ed Reed). Its too early to tell anything, but football fans like to discuss it anyway, thats what we're on the board for. All this trolling talk is wack, as if a little preseason smack talk is going to hurt anyone, Jeez...
                Last edited by starwitness; 05-01-2009, 12:48 AM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Yes, he can sit on the bench, just like Marquise Hill did (r.i.p. :().

                  No comment, next.

                  Quick reminder, Leigh Bodden spent last year helping Detroit becoming the first 0-16 team ever. Biiiiiiiiiiiiig upgrade there.

                  So did Calvin Johnson. He must suck too. I see youre running out of intelligent things to say, must be the late hour.


                  So the answer is no.

                  Yes, the answer is no, lol.

                  You.

                  Guilty as charged, I guess. Didnt know men could be so sensitive. You are a man, right?

                  And Ronnie Brown did very well as the wildcat trigger man. If Pat White provides an upgrade, who does he provide an upgrade over that actually plays, since its so obvious that he's not going to be in the starting lineup?

                  One more time, Pat White can throw! He ran the spread (wildcat) his whole college career. Ronnie did ok, but he was not a threat to pass, and the scheme is pretty easy to stop if its one dimensional.

                  He's 80 years old (not literally), and like Daunte, who knows if he'll be able to come back 100% from the injury he had.

                  Good point. Lucky for them they signed Greg Lewis (another speed guy) and drafted Brandon Tate, its called depth. Or in your case, lackthereof.

                  Yes, unless you count the best deep threat in the game, they don't have one. Right.

                  Moss the best deep threat? 8 years ago, yeah. 2 years ago, maybe. Last year, probably not. This year, definitely not. Not unless Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Steve Smith, Lee Evans and Brandon Marshall all retire.

                  His size will aloow him to do the work over middle, and he'll also be a redzone threat, something the Dolphins didn't have......... okay.

                  Brandon London 6'4 210
                  Ernest Wilford 6'4, 225
                  Anthony Fasano 6'4 250

                  Yes, I'm sure that extra inch in height will allow him to do what these three couldn't.


                  Fasano is the only one on that least that will even see the field this year. And he plays TE.


                  I'll say this. I'll take Shonn Green over the fins 3rd, 4th and 7th round picks any day. And thats saying something because the Jets REALLY need WR help. And while Leon Washington isn't an every down back, hey, they got Shonne Green, a perfect complement to him. And Thomas Jones, yeah, people doubted him last year too after a lackluster 2007. We (we being Jets fans) knew it was due to poor o-line play. You (you being not a Jets fan, and a dolphins fan to boot) didn't.

                  I said good day sir.


                  Fine with me, you can take whoever you want. No one is doubting Jones, he played well last year, which is why youre talking out of both sides of your mouth right now. If Jones is good, and Leon is good, why oh why would you trade three picks for another RB? Especially when you clearly have greater needs at WR and you already traded 4 players (3 and a pick) to get Sanchez? Get some rest, you sound tired dude.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Pick your face up Starwitness!!! You had an uphill battle to begin with but you just got proven absolutely wrong.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by starwitness View Post

                      Fine with me, you can take whoever you want. No one is doubting Jones, he played well last year, which is why youre talking out of both sides of your mouth right now. If Jones is good, and Leon is good, why oh why would you trade three picks for another RB? Especially when you clearly have greater needs at WR and you already traded 4 players (3 and a pick) to get Sanchez? Get some rest, you sound tired dude.
                      Maybe b/c RB is the position that takes the most pounding and is the most unpredictable injury wise. Look at the Broncos last year they went through 7 starting RB's. Not to mention that Thomas Jones is in the middle of a contract "situation" (don't want to call it a holdout yet) and who knows when he'll get back on the field.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by msolimani View Post
                        Maybe b/c RB is the position that takes the most pounding and is the most unpredictable injury wise. Look at the Broncos last year they went through 7 starting RB's. Not to mention that Thomas Jones is in the middle of a contract "situation" (don't want to call it a holdout yet) and who knows when he'll get back on the field.
                        Sorry but that doesnt come close to justifying the Shonn Green trade. RBs do take alot of punishment, and Im more concerned with Jones age than his temper tantrum, but RBs come a dime a dozen. Its probably the easiest position to fill on a roster, and arguably the easiest position to play on thie field.

                        I know youre a Jets fan and all, but youe outsmarting yourself. The Jets needed a WR, still do actually. You guys are obviously planning on pounding the ball to protect your QB and your defense this year. But you have to at least have the threat of a pass game in order for that strategy to be effective. If teams know you cant go down the field then even elite backs like Adrian Peterson can be stymied b/c teams will just load the box w defenders and FORCE you to pass. The Pats have the worst run blocking O Line and worst running backs in the division, but they were tops in rushing yds in the division (6th in the league) b/c they have Moss and Welker to keep defenses honest.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by starwitness View Post
                          Sorry but that doesnt come close to justifying the Shonn Green trade. RBs do take alot of punishment, and Im more concerned with Jones age than his temper tantrum, but RBs come a dime a dozen. Its probably the easiest position to fill on a roster, and arguably the easiest position to play on thie field.

                          I know youre a Jets fan and all, but youe outsmarting yourself. The Jets needed a WR, still do actually. You guys are obviously planning on pounding the ball to protect your QB and your defense this year. But you have to at least have the threat of a pass game in order for that strategy to be effective. If teams know you cant go down the field then even elite backs like Adrian Peterson can be stymied b/c teams will just load the box w defenders and FORCE you to pass. The Pats have the worst run blocking O Line and worst running backs in the division, but they were tops in rushing yds in the division (6th in the league) b/c they have Moss and Welker to keep defenses honest.
                          I'm not debating you that the Jets need a WR, they absolutely could use an upgrade. But we're also 4 months away from the season. How many solid veterans every year around the start of the season are cut as cap casualties(Pennington), put on the trade block(Boldin, Edwards) or for some other reason(Favre)? There's no need for them to panic in the draft and take one in rounds 3-7 if they don't have a high enough rating on one, which they obviously didn't.

                          It also comes down to philosophy, I agree that the passing game helps the run game and vice versa, but the Jets offense this year will be very similar to the Ravens of last year. They will rely heavily on the run game to get them going, and play very physical football. They will utilize the possesion guys(Keller and Cotchery should have solid years) and throw simple and safe plays to constantly move the chains. We do have the speed necessary to take the deep shots (Clowney and Stuckey) so you're just wrong there. Honestly, a blocking TE is more of a need for us than WR and the current moment.
                          Last edited by msolimani; 05-01-2009, 11:17 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by msolimani View Post
                            I'm not debating you that the Jets need a WR, they absolutely could use an upgrade. But we're also 4 months away from the season. How many solid veterans every year around the start of the season are cut as cap casualties(Pennington), put on the trade block(Boldin, Edwards) or for some other reason(Favre)? There's no need for them to panic in the draft and take one in rounds 3-7 if they don't have a high enough rating on one, which they obviously didn't.

                            It also comes down to philosophy, I agree that the passing game helps the run game and vice versa, but the Jets offense this year will be very similar to the Ravens of last year. They will rely heavily on the run game to get them going, and play very physical football. They will utilize the possesion guys(Keller and Cotchery should have solid years) and throw simple and safe plays to constantly move the chains. We do have the speed necessary to take the deep shots (Clowney and Stuckey) so you're just wrong there. Honestly, a blocking TE is more of a need for us than WR and the current moment.
                            Dominant defense, solid running back, rookie QB, coach named Rex Ryan, Im suprised it took this long for someone to make the Ravens comparison.
                            Certainly its possible. But the Ravens had a MUCH easier schedule than the Jets have this year, and the Jets D will be good, but it wont be "Ravens" good.

                            I agree, there is no need to panic in the draft. But thats exactly what Tannenbaum seems to have done. He jumped up to number 5 to take Sanchez, (fearing Washington would trump him perhaps) even though none of the teams picking between 5 and 9 were much of a threat to take him. Not that it matters, you guys are going to be a pound the rock type and play defense type team anyway, so all you need is a Pennington type QB who can move the chains and protect the ball, moving up for Sanchez, or any othet flashy QB was unecessary.

                            What I dont think youre understanding is that the whole league can see your pound the ball strategy from a mile and away, and they arent going to just sit around and allow it to happen. Any coach with a brain is going to crowd the line of scrimmage and stuff the run, play tight man coverage to take away all fo the "safe" throws, and bring a variety of complex coverages and blitz packages to test the young QB. Its football 101.

                            If you like Clowney and Stuckey as your deep threat WRs then fine. Cotchery and Keller may in fact have decent years. But if the goal is to win games, then I just dont see where the Jets have much chance of improving on last year's record b/c the rest of the division has improved alot more than you guys have.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by starwitness View Post
                              Dominant defense, solid running back, rookie QB, coach named Rex Ryan, Im suprised it took this long for someone to make the Ravens comparison.
                              Certainly its possible. But the Ravens had a MUCH easier schedule than the Jets have this year, and the Jets D will be good, but it wont be "Ravens" good.

                              I agree, there is no need to panic in the draft. But thats exactly what Tannenbaum seems to have done. He jumped up to number 5 to take Sanchez, (fearing Washington would trump him perhaps) even though none of the teams picking between 5 and 9 were much of a threat to take him. Not that it matters, you guys are going to be a pound the rock type and play defense type team anyway, so all you need is a Pennington type QB who can move the chains and protect the ball, moving up for Sanchez, or any othet flashy QB was unecessary.

                              What I dont think youre understanding is that the whole league can see your pound the ball strategy from a mile and away, and they arent going to just sit around and allow it to happen. Any coach with a brain is going to crowd the line of scrimmage and stuff the run, play tight man coverage to take away all fo the "safe" throws, and bring a variety of complex coverages and blitz packages to test the young QB. Its football 101.

                              If you like Clowney and Stuckey as your deep threat WRs then fine. Cotchery and Keller may in fact have decent years. But if the goal is to win games, then I just dont see where the Jets have much chance of improving on last year's record b/c the rest of the division has improved alot more than you guys have.
                              You've made your point. But games are not won in April and May. Who cares what you say or any of us for that matter. No one thought that the Dolphins would do anything last year, and Voila division champs. A lot of people were on the Bills bandwagon last year and look what happened. I remember early in the 2001 season I watched the Jets play what I thought was one of the worst teams I had seen in years. They had a bunch of retreads on their team and when Mo Lewis knocked out their starting QB I thought they'd be lucky to win a game all year. Well someone named Tom brady took over and they won a Super Bowl. My point is you cant tell until the games are played so why bother getting all riled up for something that you have no control over.
                              J. MESS

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by starwitness View Post
                                I agree, there is no need to panic in the draft. But thats exactly what Tannenbaum seems to have done. He jumped up to number 5 to take Sanchez, (fearing Washington would trump him perhaps) even though none of the teams picking between 5 and 9 were much of a threat to take him. Not that it matters, you guys are going to be a pound the rock type and play defense type team anyway, so all you need is a Pennington type QB who can move the chains and protect the ball, moving up for Sanchez, or any othet flashy QB was unecessary.
                                Tannenbaum did not panic at all. The organization felt that we needed a QB and they liked Sanchez. He traded up to 5 and got a good deal. Tannenbaum has had a good track record trading up in the draft to get players that the Jets like. It works for us. End of story.

                                Sig by BoneKrusher

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