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  • Originally posted by AlexDown View Post
    We can't give up 35 points a game. A lot of the blame is on the defense, probably even more so then on offense. Also, Nugent has to start making kicks consistently.
    You're completely right there. Defensively I think a lot has to do with our run game, and the big plays we give up in the passing game. Dyson needs to make that tackle, or at least get Plax out of bounds on that sideline play. They picked on Barrett a few times as well. Part of the pass game is also the fact that our pass rush is terrible. Our defense is atrocious overall. I do think Clemens needs to start eventually though, as said. And I dunno what Nooge's problem has been, he's already missed more FG's this year than he did all of last year, he's regressing...

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    • Originally posted by derza222 View Post
      You're completely right there. Defensively I think a lot has to do with our run game, and the big plays we give up in the passing game. Dyson needs to make that tackle, or at least get Plax out of bounds on that sideline play. They picked on Barrett a few times as well. Part of the pass game is also the fact that our pass rush is terrible. Our defense is atrocious overall. I do think Clemens needs to start eventually though, as said. And I dunno what Nooge's problem has been, he's already missed more FG's this year than he did all of last year, he's regressing...
      I gotta agree with that. Our run defense is so inconsistent, at times we look like a legit D and then others we look fairly pedestrian. I really think that consistency is our biggest problem; on defense and offense.

      Yes, there is no question that dyson has to make that play, that is just absurd, but of the 35 points the giants scored; 7 were from the int, and then the play where plax posterized dyson. Im not saying that our defense was lights out, far from it, however, when our offense turns it over 3 times its pretty tough to win. Our defense almost equaled the points of our offense.

      I know the coaches and players are all behind chad, but at some point theres gotta be some realization that this team can't win when our offense only scores 10 points. I dont wanna jump on the i hate chad bandwagon, becuase i do love the guy and what hes done for our team. But, these last two games remind me a lot of the bears game last year and a couple others. With our offense we can't turn the ball over that frequently, because we aren't that explosive. However, I do feel that we could be a more high-powered offense with Clemens' arm in there. I honestly can't remember last time one of our recievers caught a ball in stride. Anyways, we'll see what happens this week. And Derza i did look at your list and i liked all the players. Ill have time to comment sometime this week, as well as some players of my own, but for now its time to see the yanks beat the indians. And joba looked like he was a man on a mission tonight.

      "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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      • Obviously an awful loss today, especially when we played so well in the first half- anyways, here's my take....

        -i think David Harris has gotta play on every down like Vilma does, he really has been an animal if uve watched him this year
        -D'brick had probably the game of his career today in terms of pass protection- in fact, the whole o-line was good
        -our offense, especially the draw plays to Leon, are so predictable- Schotty has not been as sharp this year as he was last year- that being said, I think Chad is limiting the playbook because of his pathetic arm strength. I don't think it's absurd to want Kellen to be our QB now.
        -Kerry Rhodes is still a pro-bowl quality player

        it's getting down to the wire here, but if we lose our next few maybe we can forget the season and draft Glen Dorsey :) although this may be a lost year, I still like the direction our franchise is going. If Kellen is the real deal and TJ can get going, our offense can actually be something. Then once Vilma, who has played a lot better, and Darrelle, who has been up and down, get more experience, I think our defense is in the right direction (assuming we can find a pass rusher in the offseason)

        anyways, the Giants still suck and their fans are pathetic


        ^^Sig From Nvot9
        J-E-T-S JETS! JETS! JETS!

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        • The game today was awfully dissapointing, the D was thier usual self. Our D is pretty much in shambles right now. They just cannot stop anybody, period. Our front seven is not fit for the 3-4 and it shows every week. Any offense can easily pick us apart.

          As for the offense, Chad obviously limits us, he cannot make plays because of his arm strength. He never will be able to either. As long as he is behind center our offense is handicapped. I also think that our run game woes could be partially credited to this as well. The d can pretty much stack the box because they know chad won't beat them vertically. Granted the line isn't run blocking great, but we should be running the ball better. I say Chad gets one more game, and if he ***** up next week then we have to play Clemens



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          • Good game guys. That game was ugly on both sides. I almost feel like both teams shouldve lost. Neither looked that impressive, and both played their C game yesterday.

            Theres 2 major problems that face the Jets right now.

            1. The run defense is a serious problem. Theres really nothing to do about it other than go fulltime 4-3 this year. You simply don't have the dline players to run a 3-4. Every team should have an easy time running the ball.

            Mangini needs to run 4-3 on 1st and 2nd down to minimize the glaring holes in the front 7. Then if he wants, he can use his 3-4 nickel packages. But using the 3-4 base fulltime is killing this front 7. He simply doesn't have the players for it.

            2. I love Chad Pennington. His leadership, his heart, his intelligence. The man is a stand up guy and I have loads of respect for him. Having that said, I think its time for him to hang it up. He just doesn't have starting material anymore. That arm is shot. He'd be a great backup, but I think for this team to move forward, its time to bench Chad. And it pains me to say that, because Im a huge Chad supporter. I was rooting for him to make a comeback, but its just not happening.

            I guess draft wise, you guys need a RT, whole new dline, and pass rushing OLBs. Hobson is out of place at SAMrushbacker, and Thomas may be a one year wonder. Smoke and mirrors can only take you so far, if you want continous success in this league, you need talent.

            But don't stress it too much. I love the direction the Jets are going in. Mangini is a good coach, you guys draft well, it'll take some time. You can't build Rome in a year.

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            • Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
              Good game guys. That game was ugly on both sides. I almost feel like both teams shouldve lost. Neither looked that impressive, and both played their C game yesterday.

              Theres 2 major problems that face the Jets right now.

              1. The run defense is a serious problem. Theres really nothing to do about it other than go fulltime 4-3 this year. You simply don't have the dline players to run a 3-4. Every team should have an easy time running the ball.

              Mangini needs to run 4-3 on 1st and 2nd down to minimize the glaring holes in the front 7. Then if he wants, he can use his 3-4 nickel packages. But using the 3-4 base fulltime is killing this front 7. He simply doesn't have the players for it.

              2. I love Chad Pennington. His leadership, his heart, his intelligence. The man is a stand up guy and I have loads of respect for him. Having that said, I think its time for him to hang it up. He just doesn't have starting material anymore. That arm is shot. He'd be a great backup, but I think for this team to move forward, its time to bench Chad. And it pains me to say that, because Im a huge Chad supporter. I was rooting for him to make a comeback, but its just not happening.

              I guess draft wise, you guys need a RT, whole new dline, and pass rushing OLBs. Hobson is out of place at SAMrushbacker, and Thomas may be a one year wonder. Smoke and mirrors can only take you so far, if you want continous success in this league, you need talent.

              But don't stress it too much. I love the direction the Jets are going in. Mangini is a good coach, you guys draft well, it'll take some time. You can't build Rome in a year.

              very well said. I couldn't agree more on what you said about chad. He should be the role model for all these young players; he shows you how to conduct yourself in a professional manner and most importantly put your team before yourself. I am gonna miss chad if he goes somewhere else, but like BBD said, I just dont feel he has the starting quality.

              As for defense, once again, I strongly agree. Running the 4-3 on 1st and 2nd down would diminish the gaping runs we are giving up, which would then force more stoppable 3rd and outs. Our dline definately needs some major retooling, however I don't think it all needs to go. Ellis is getting old and needs an eventual successor, but he has been one of the lone bright spots the last few years. Koleman is ok. The main problem is definately our NT. As everyone has said, we need a huge 330 NT who can mantain the point of attack and squeeze the cutback lanes based soley on the fact that he just takes up space. I think that alone would allow our linebackers (ala ray lewis and the ravens drafting Ngata) to not be eaten up by the big guards.

              I like Drob and I am not sure what his trade value would be, but he just doesn't seem to fit our defensive schemes. I would like to see if we could move him and maybe land a top tier OG (big 315+...jordan grimes) with that pick. I see a few mock drafts giving us McFadden. Now, I think he is amazing and will be a fantastic back in the league, however we don't have the team to compliment him. I think most of us our in agreement on that we need to solidify both our lines first. Personally, i think we are a few guys away from having a very good oline (depending on where they are going to play bender, If he has the talent to be a good starter).

              If we are picking top 5-8 like i have been seeing recently who would be go after? Calais Campbell? If we pick later, does Frank Okam have the ability to play NT? I am not sure but there is still a lot of football left to play this season, so hopefully a lot of things will be answered for us. But as always its great to hear everyones' suggestions and ideas. Maybe we could somehow send this forum to mangini? hah

              "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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              • Just a few thoughts-

                I was at the game yesterday and had a good view of certain aspects of the game-

                -Your defense appears to be in shambles from the outside but I feel you guys have a solid nucleus, just missing a key player. You all know Robertson isn't the answer at NT, and for a 3-4 to be strong you need that NT. Still think the release of Ferguson was one of the worst the Jets ever made.

                -I really like Harris, even more so than Revis. We had a tough time blocking him all day and I heard many Giants fans around me saying..."Who is this #52 kid?"

                -Rhodes is a stud, better than Sean Taylor IMO. Not only did he make the play of the day on the strip, recovery and TD....but he gave Eli headaches all day. He was constantly moving around and confusing the hell out of a really smart QB. I like him.

                -You are a NT and DE away from being fine on defense

                -Don't want to start an argument but Chad is a backup on a good team if you ask me. Just not capable of leading this team anywhere unless the D is a top 5 unit at least.

                -Not liking Jones as much as I thought I would for you guys. I think Washington should be getting more touches from the backfield.

                -I really like Clement...he tossed around Strahan on a few occasions and that isn't something that happens often. Maybe we can take your RT again once he hits his prime....
                Originally posted by Paul
                Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

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                • If we put in Kellen I think that it gives us a better chance to win. Coles has great speed, but rarely uses until after he gets the ball. If McCareins would have made those catches against Baltimore I think Clemens would be starting.
                  Penn State University - Detroit Red Wings - New York Jets - Red Bull New York - Fulham FC

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                  • Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
                    Just a few thoughts-

                    I was at the game yesterday and had a good view of certain aspects of the game-

                    -Your defense appears to be in shambles from the outside but I feel you guys have a solid nucleus, just missing a key player. You all know Robertson isn't the answer at NT, and for a 3-4 to be strong you need that NT. Still think the release of Ferguson was one of the worst the Jets ever made.

                    -I really like Harris, even more so than Revis. We had a tough time blocking him all day and I heard many Giants fans around me saying..."Who is this #52 kid?"

                    -Rhodes is a stud, better than Sean Taylor IMO. Not only did he make the play of the day on the strip, recovery and TD....but he gave Eli headaches all day. He was constantly moving around and confusing the hell out of a really smart QB. I like him.

                    -You are a NT and DE away from being fine on defense

                    -Don't want to start an argument but Chad is a backup on a good team if you ask me. Just not capable of leading this team anywhere unless the D is a top 5 unit at least.

                    -Not liking Jones as much as I thought I would for you guys. I think Washington should be getting more touches from the backfield.

                    -I really like Clement...he tossed around Strahan on a few occasions and that isn't something that happens often. Maybe we can take your RT again once he hits his prime....
                    My thoughts on a couple of your points.

                    -I agree we do have a solid nucleus on D. Some spots could use some work though, especially the line as you said. I think we could have a good defense if we improved there, but to be a great defense I think we MAY need to replace one of our OLB's (possibly Thomas, who hasn't done much since his extension, dunno what we could do with him though), and we could probably use another corner. I believe you actually had us drafting a corner in your mock (Cason?), a pick that I liked. Also, not sure what the other Jets fans think but IMO Eric Smith should be starting next to Rhodes at safety, he looked solid yesterday and I'm not sure if it had anything to do with it but Rhodes was all over the place as well. Perhaps we have more confidence in Smith than Coleman and because of that allow Rhodes to roam a bit more, who knows...

                    -I love Harris and think he's a great fit next to Vilma. Revis made some nice plays, and I think he's having a few growing pains but has shown flashes of great potential and will be a very good corner for us in the future. IMO they end up having similar success at their respective positions over the course of their careers.

                    -Rhodes is an absolute stud, I agree.

                    -I kind of covered that one in the first response.

                    -You're right on Chad, I think he's a very good backup but has shown on a few throws he just doesn't have the zip to get the ball into tight spots. He's made some very good throws, but with the difficulties we've had on offense we can't afford to turn the ball over, and he's done that 5 times in the past 2 games. Plus the fact that nobody respects the deep ball really hurts our short passing game (Penny's strength) and the run game. I absolutely love Pennington and hoped he'd turn it around, but the Clemens era should begin soon for the Jets.

                    -Agree on Jones, though I think when teams can no longer stack the box and our offensive line improves a tad he'll do better. He's not in a great situation. Leon should be getting more touches, but we need to be less predictable with what we do with him. We usually just run draws, screens, and the occasional outside run, and though he had some success early in the season teams are figuring it out.

                    -Clement has been hit or miss at times from what I've seen. That said, he's had some very good games and should be able to hold down the spot and do well enough for this year and possibly next year as well. I do think we'll be drafting a RT of the future soon though. And if I'm correct he's around 31, so he's in his prime and if he hasn't started to decline yet he should soon...



                    -Two last thoughts relating to special teams: Mike Westhoff is a fantastic special teams coach. We consistently have one of the best ST units in the league in the return game, and may send 2 different return men to the Pro Bowl in consecutive seasons if Leon continues to have success. And Nooge really needs some more consistency in the kicking game, he's hurt us with misses the past two games.

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                    • I'm done defending Chad. Whatever.

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                      • so i have a question. It seems as tho we all agree we need a huge NT to replace Drob; however, do we think that mangini thinks the same thing? He constantly talks about how much progress he makes and how he does things people don't know, but I am just wondering if the choice is there will he pull the trigger. A couple guys i want to keep my eye out for is jason shirley of fresno state, redman for texas a&m i beleive. So basically what im asking is what do you guys think, will mangini look for a NT in this draft or no?

                        "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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                        • The guy you're thinking of from Texas A&M is Red Bryant I believe. I do think Mangini is going to have to go after a NT because our run defense is so bad and there's no way he doesn't know that. Obviously it needs to be fixed and an NT is the best way to go from there.

                          A seperate thought, who should be starting next to Rhodes at safety, Smith or Coleman??

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                          • ahh ya i checked it up and that was his name. I'm not sure exactly how is knee was after the surgery. Anyways, depending on where we draft i wouldn't mind seeing an OLB (gholston, Groves, Blake) or if we do unfortunately have a high pick possibly Calais Campbell and in round 2 or 3 one of the top NTs unless the go earlier. And some giant OG.

                            Regardless...i think that smith should be starting. I always find it hard to evaluate the safeties, becuase I never know the coverage they are in. However, right off the bat last game we saw smith jump and knock down that throw to shockey. He seemed everyhwhere. I personally would like to give him 1 more start atleast.

                            "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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                            • Not sure what kind of a fit Campbell is in a 3-4, I know a lot of people don't like him in the scheme that much. I'm still a big proponent of the BPA strategy, and if everyone's equal then we go with an OL or a DL. Toonster always has great mocks and he's had us taking Tyson Jackson the past couple of times, certainly a guy to keep an eye on.

                              But I think the only position's we're set at right now are QB, S, LT, C, and ILB. And I don't see us going TE in the top half of the first, where we'll probably (unfortunately) be picking. If the BPA by far is a WR, RB, or CB, I think we go in that direction. We're going to need a starter next to Cotchery once Coles hangs 'em up, which could be sooner than we think (he's made comments), and wideouts develop slowly. If a guy like Jackson or Bowman is BPA I'd love us to pull the trigger there. Regardless of our line Jones has been underwhelming and if a guy like McFadden slips to us somehow it's worth considering. And our corner play hasn't been all that great, a very good number 2 corner across from Revis if BPA (Jenkins, King) could be tempting and may help out our lack of a pass rush a tad.

                              The cases for any DL, RT, G (though value at the OL spots may not match up with where we are picking), or OLB are all pretty obvious. I see us considering a lot of different players, but most of all I think we do something like last year, pick out our guy and go get him whether he's above or below where we're going to be picking (trade up or down). And depending on how values shake out, I've got to believe it's a defensive lineman this year.

                              If we take a DL at the top of this draft (I'd imagine it's an end) I see us going with a G and RT in rounds 2 and 3 (in no particular order) and a NT in round 4 or 5 maybe, because I'm not sure there's a bunch of day 1 NT's floating around this year. If we go in another, more BPA direction I think we grab and end and a G/RT day 1, with a G/RT and NT in rounds 4 in 5 in no particular order. That's what I'm thinking as of right now at least for this season's draft.

                              And to answer my own question, I think Smith should be our starter. He made a bunch of nice plays on passes, and can hit a bit as well. Coleman's a nice player, but I think he's a better fit as a very good backup and Smith should be starting as our secondary outside of a couple of big plays looked great this past week, especially Rhodes, and especially in the first half. I have to imagine Smith is a big reason why. Interesting situation to watch, as I think Coleman is more of a very good backup type while Smith deserves a chance to prove himself and start. Some could argue that the Penningon/Clemens situation is very similar...We'll see what happens with the safety spot next to Rhodes in a couple days I guess.

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                              • yaa why is that campbell doesn't fit in the 3-4? what are the knocks against him?

                                I do love the jackson pick and i hate getting all hyped up on players for a few months before the draft becuase than i get emotionally attached and get upset when we don't get em haha. But if he does leave early I do like that pick. Especially if we are able to get one of the NTs; red bryan, jason shirley etc. I think a top rounder DE like jackson and an actual NT would do wonders for our team. I am actuallly getting excited thinking about it. Although that does quench the idea of getting gholston, which ive been pretty high on. Anyways, if we just came away with a true NT and some meat on at the OG position I would be quite happy.

                                And I'm looking forward to see who mangini names as the starter; smith or coleman. Also, I think it'll be a nice change to see the new jerseys this weekend.

                                "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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