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  • So is Chad playing Sunday or is Kellen?
    Penn State University - Detroit Red Wings - New York Jets - Red Bull New York - Fulham FC

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    • Originally posted by BroadwayJoe10 View Post
      yaa why is that campbell doesn't fit in the 3-4? what are the knocks against him?

      I do love the jackson pick and i hate getting all hyped up on players for a few months before the draft becuase than i get emotionally attached and get upset when we don't get em haha. But if he does leave early I do like that pick. Especially if we are able to get one of the NTs; red bryan, jason shirley etc. I think a top rounder DE like jackson and an actual NT would do wonders for our team. I am actuallly getting excited thinking about it. Although that does quench the idea of getting gholston, which ive been pretty high on. Anyways, if we just came away with a true NT and some meat on at the OG position I would be quite happy.

      And I'm looking forward to see who mangini names as the starter; smith or coleman. Also, I think it'll be a nice change to see the new jerseys this weekend.

      Campbell is I believe 6'8, 280 or somewhere around there. I just don't think he has the beef to be a really good 3-4 end, especially taking up blockers and keeping them off of our linebackers which we really need in the run game. The safety story is going to be interesting to watch, and the new jerseys will be cool for a change of pace. I kind of wish we had alternates we used every year. Also, Mangini is sticking with Chad this week. I wonder if he's going to be too stubborn to start Clemens this year unless Chad is hurt. I've got to believe if he keeps turning the ball over Mangini will realize we have to make a change, but otherwise I'm not sure.

      Comment


      • The Titans uniforms don't look as bad as I thought they would.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Zim3031 View Post
          The Titans uniforms don't look as bad as I thought they would.

          Those two shades of gold and blue look pretty bad together.

          Comment


          • Sorry, I've been slackin guys....Not that it matters but Im just trying to say Im not just jumping in to slander any of you....

            I've watched every game this year closely and the idea Chad is done as A starter (this year) is a bit unfounded...The game against the giants....I'll go through the picks

            The long lofty one: ALL ON CHAD. He read the wrong defense blew out his mechanics and pulled a grossman and lobbed a pass off his back foot. Worst decision I've personally ever seen Chad make (Scary but it happens)...

            Sam Madisons Pick: He was talking smack after the game about how he knew Chad threw a "light ball" but when asked by a reporter why he was torched and didn't jump those routes three times earlier in the game: once to baker once to LC and once when he had coverage on a swing pass...he said ok well he doesn't throw that bad a ball we just knew what play was coming....(bad pass and a bit soft but no huddle semi responsible for that one) Antonio Pierce also said after the game that they love playing against "that crap" (no huddle hurry up offense) He said when chad barks we get better reads on what play is coming.

            The last pick by Aaron ross well first let me say I think we all know from last year (against the pats in the playoffs: santes int for td) that when the jets offense is asked to press at the end of games (not hurry but press and force throws downfield and get away from their plan) Chad can easily get jumped... Aaron ross also masked his coverage well and made a good play but in a 1st and 10 interview on cold pizza he said "we saw that formation and play earlier in the game, and they got us but we remembered we saw it on film and when they brought it again we knew it was coming thats why i showed blitz"

            The point being is that LC said in the paper "If there is ONE guy to blame IT'S NOT CHAD PENNINGTON"
            -The run blocking is terrible; can;t open holes(which in turn leads to...)
            -The running game is terrrible (to....)
            -Play calling is one dimensional... (to...)
            -ineffective playaction; chads best move (to...)
            -3 and outs early in the second half (to...)
            -Run D sucks and they pound it down our throats (to...)
            -The D is on the field a long time (to...)
            -We start losing and have to press and chad can't press (he can hurry and metriculate but not press)

            This is a compounding problem...Chad is a proven QB theres a reason we win more games when he plays than when he doesnt. Also, the picks last week were sooo costly but I think they weren't solely his fault, more like an avalanche of problems....Also, if you think the costly picks in Buffalo can dissprove my point McCareins and Coles both admitted to mis running their routes. Coles was supposed to stop before the 1st down marker and get YAC and McCareins was supposed to run a curl and he ran a 9.

            I understand its easy to blame Chad, but howdo you explain when we need a score at the end of the first half when we dont press but hurry with the 2 minute drill we almost always march down the field and score, and admittedly its something we can only do in the 1st half which confuses me. Its a different game in the 4th than in the 2nd..essentially we can't win with anyone if we cant keep a 10 point lead in the 2nd half. Our play calling and formations (predictable offensive calls and playing out of our Defensive players strengths in the 3-4 instead of the 4-3) shows theyre not trying to accomodate players strengths (d with 3- 4, chad with play calling and no running game) but a vanilla (preset) gameplan (which requires almost perfect execution every play to be only adequate)

            Personally if we have to press Id rather sub in Clemens he showed he can Press ie Ravens game with the best of them, BUT he hasnt showed he can manage a game well enough in 3/4 of the game in order to merit his position as the starter.


            I personally think Chad is at the end of his rope with the Jets and its sad to see a guy as talented (not in arm strength but many other ways) as he is to end with the Jets with nothing to show for it. I've seen Ken O'Brien, Richard Todd I've seen tape of Namath and I think Chad, over his career is better than all of them in terms of decision making and managing 4 quarters of a game. Namath could press ebtter than anyone bc of his arm strength and lack of defensive complexity back then. O'Brien and Todd are analagous to Pennington in terms of the wasted opportunity of talent, I hate to see him go but I think next year if he's not gone theres a QB controversy.


            sorry for the essay making up for lost time
            Last edited by hcbrad08; 10-10-2007, 05:34 PM.
            QB, OG, OLB, WR, CB, MLB, RB, FS

            Exactly Why The Jets were the Coolest Team in the NFL under Rex, but Bowles is the man-see Arians speech:

            http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/...x-in-town.html


            http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/...e-for-you.html

            Comment


            • Needs (In Order):
              1)NT:SPACE EATER
              2)RT:MAULER who can power run bock
              3)LG:RUN BLOCKING MAULER KILLER INSTINCT TO PICK UP BRICK
              4)LDE: Converted taller DT Ellis isnt effective enough in the 3-4 and hes 31 or 32
              5)ROLB:Hobson get swallowed at the line Bowens comes in only to blitz (only effective) Need a compliment to Bryan Thomas
              6)RCB: Revis is having growing pains but will be a #1 Dyson forgot how to play football, miller will never be a #2 and Barrett makes me want to vomit. I like a DeJuan Dribble, he reminds me of ronde barber but I think hes out of our league in terms of need vs where hes gonna be taken I'm guessing 3rd round as of today cant pick that high. Maybe well get lucky.

              I also wouldnt mind (espcially if the coaches still want to go with Chad next year) a very tall 6-4 or 6-5, jumping type reciever. I think it would make him better and ad an element a Jets offense hasnt seen since Keyshawn Johnson
              Last edited by hcbrad08; 10-10-2007, 05:45 PM. Reason: duplicate changed to quick post
              QB, OG, OLB, WR, CB, MLB, RB, FS

              Exactly Why The Jets were the Coolest Team in the NFL under Rex, but Bowles is the man-see Arians speech:

              http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/...x-in-town.html


              http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/...e-for-you.html

              Comment


              • Originally posted by hcbrad08 View Post
                Sorry, I've been slackin guys....Not that it matters but Im just trying to say Im not just jumping in to slander any of you....

                I've watched every game this year closely and the idea Chad is done as A starter (this year) is a bit unfounded...The game against the giants....I'll go through the picks

                The long lofty one: ALL ON CHAD. He read the wrong defense blew out his mechanics and pulled a grossman and lobbed a pass off his back foot. Worst decision I've personally ever seen Chad make (Scary but it happens)...

                Sam Madisons Pick: He was talking smack after the game about how he knew Chad threw a "light ball" but when asked by a reporter why he was torched and didn't jump those routes three times earlier in the game: once to baker once to LC and once when he had coverage on a swing pass...he said ok well he doesn't throw that bad a ball we just knew what play was coming....(bad pass and a bit soft but no huddle semi responsible for that one) Antonio Pierce also said after the game that they love playing against "that crap" (no huddle hurry up offense) He said when chad barks we get better reads on what play is coming.

                The last pick by Aaron ross well first let me say I think we all know from last year (against the pats in the playoffs: santes int for td) that when the jets offense is asked to press at the end of games (not hurry but press and force throws downfield and get away from their plan) Chad can easily get jumped... Aaron ross also masked his coverage well and made a good play but in a 1st and 10 interview on cold pizza he said "we saw that formation and play earlier in the game, and they got us but we remembered we saw it on film and when they brought it again we knew it was coming thats why i showed blitz"

                The point being is that LC said in the paper "If there is ONE guy to blame IT'S NOT CHAD PENNINGTON"
                -The run blocking is terrible; can;t open holes(which in turn leads to...)
                -The running game is terrrible (to....)
                -Play calling is one dimensional... (to...)
                -ineffective playaction; chads best move (to...)
                -3 and outs early in the second half (to...)
                -Run D sucks and they pound it down our throats (to...)
                -The D is on the field a long time (to...)
                -We start losing and have to press and chad can't press (he can hurry and metriculate but not press)

                This is a compounding problem...Chad is a proven QB theres a reason we win more games when he plays than when he doesnt. Also, the picks last week were sooo costly but I think they weren't solely his fault, more like an avalanche of problems....Also, if you think the costly picks in Buffalo can dissprove my point McCareins and Coles both admitted to mis running their routes. Coles was supposed to stop before the 1st down marker and get YAC and McCareins was supposed to run a curl and he ran a 9.

                I understand its easy to blame Chad, but howdo you explain when we need a score at the end of the first half when we dont press but hurry with the 2 minute drill we almost always march down the field and score, and admittedly its something we can only do in the 1st half which confuses me. Its a different game in the 4th than in the 2nd..essentially we can't win with anyone if we cant keep a 10 point lead in the 2nd half. Our play calling and formations (predictable offensive calls and playing out of our Defensive players strengths in the 3-4 instead of the 4-3) shows theyre not trying to accomodate players strengths (d with 3- 4, chad with play calling and no running game) but a vanilla (preset) gameplan (which requires almost perfect execution every play to be only adequate)

                Personally if we have to press Id rather sub in Clemens he showed he can Press ie Ravens game with the best of them, BUT he hasnt showed he can manage a game well enough in 3/4 of the game in order to merit his position as the starter.


                I personally think Chad is at the end of his rope with the Jets and its sad to see a guy as talented (not in arm strength but many other ways) as he is to end with the Jets with nothing to show for it. I've seen Ken O'Brien, Richard Todd I've seen tape of Namath and I think Chad, over his career is better than all of them in terms of decision making and managing 4 quarters of a game. Namath could press ebtter than anyone bc of his arm strength and lack of defensive complexity back then. O'Brien and Todd are analagous to Pennington in terms of the wasted opportunity of talent, I hate to see him go but I think next year if he's not gone theres a QB controversy.


                sorry for the essay making up for lost time
                I enjoyed reading that and hearing your insights. Bumping this to the new page.

                Comment


                • Bout time ya came back brad. I liked ur assesment about chad; he really only had two bad games as far as ints go, and the latest game wasn't as bad as i originally saw. Granted the final outcome of the ints were terrible, but after futher analysis they weren't as terrible as originally thought (except that one in the endzone). I really liked your points about pressing and hurrying, A+ hah... I do still feel that with chad we don't have the deep game element, even tho mangini continues to say we do. Mangini named off a few routes of 20 or under; to me that is only a mid range game. You don't see the occasional shot down field to a chad johnson, marvin harrison etc. regardless, i meant to talk about ur assesment as far as the draft goes.

                  I whole-heartedly agree that our #1 priority is a true NT. However, I havn't liked what I've seen from Okam, especially with such a high pick. I have a feeling as the draft roles around there will be a few guys that will be touted as a potential NT. From what I have heard, Red Bryan & Jason Shirley have the size and potential to be a good one. Now, i havn't seen them play and am relying on other peoples opinions, but it is clearly one of our biggest needs. I have this sneaking suspision that with San Fran needing one badly too the price will be a little higher than it should be, but oh well.

                  Next you have RT; personally i would switch LG and RT, but the point is moot, becuase you don't take an OG in the first round. And since there isn't a NT (becuase i dont like Okam) that is worthy of being taken in the first round and I dont beleive in taking a OG in the first round, the argument could be made that RT should be our first adressed matter. Now, I would normally like this pick. However, I have fallen for one of toonsters picks quite a bit; tyson jackson the big DE out of LSU. Granted he is a junior, but if they win the NC this year I beleive he comes out. He has the size to play 3-4 DE and would take up double teams extremely well. Combine him with one of the NT's who will be taken in the 2nd or 3rd or lower rounds and the line becomes that much better, while automatically upping the play of our linebackers. I love the idea of adding a 330+ NT and 6'5 292 DE excites me hah.

                  I think that if we do land a Tyson Jackson in the first round, there are plenty of starter quality RT and OGs to take in round two and lower. That is assuming we don't land anybody in free agency (I dont like to guess on free agency, becuase everyone on every forum always assumes there team goes and gets the best free agents. So I will just assume that we don't get any). It is also going to be interesting to see where bender is going to be playing, because that would definately affect whether we make RT or OG higher priority.

                  I know that you had LDE as lower in the order, but I have watched jackson a lot this year and he has the ability to constantly take double teams. And if our nose can require double teams than that leaves room for penetration from jackson. ANd if for the luck of god that both of our NT and DE can just eat up blockers than vilma will finally be able to play up to his potential. I do want to point out that if there isn't a top quality DE with the perfect size to play in our system such as jackson, than I dont feel that DE is of a high priority. I just felt he was a great pick because of his ability. Anyways, ill be looking forward to hearing some other peoples ideas on tyson jackson (im pretty sure someone brought him up the other day and i really liked the pick). And i will just throw this out, my favorite guard is Jordan Grimes. And i used to love tommy blake, until all this taking time off because he is becoming too stressed with all the football and whatnot bologna.
                  Last edited by BroadwayJoe10; 10-10-2007, 09:05 PM.

                  "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

                  Comment


                  • Finally this board get's a meaningful post. I was getting bored coming here :)

                    Sorry, I've been slackin guys....Not that it matters but Im just trying to say Im not just jumping in to slander any of you....

                    I've watched every game this year closely and the idea Chad is done as A starter (this year) is a bit unfounded...The game against the giants....I'll go through the picks

                    The long lofty one: ALL ON CHAD. He read the wrong defense blew out his mechanics and pulled a grossman and lobbed a pass off his back foot. Worst decision I've personally ever seen Chad make (Scary but it happens)...

                    Sam Madisons Pick: He was talking smack after the game about how he knew Chad threw a "light ball" but when asked by a reporter why he was torched and didn't jump those routes three times earlier in the game: once to baker once to LC and once when he had coverage on a swing pass...he said ok well he doesn't throw that bad a ball we just knew what play was coming....(bad pass and a bit soft but no huddle semi responsible for that one) Antonio Pierce also said after the game that they love playing against "that crap" (no huddle hurry up offense) He said when chad barks we get better reads on what play is coming.

                    The last pick by Aaron ross well first let me say I think we all know from last year (against the pats in the playoffs: santes int for td) that when the jets offense is asked to press at the end of games (not hurry but press and force throws downfield and get away from their plan) Chad can easily get jumped... Aaron ross also masked his coverage well and made a good play but in a 1st and 10 interview on cold pizza he said "we saw that formation and play earlier in the game, and they got us but we remembered we saw it on film and when they brought it again we knew it was coming thats why i showed blitz"
                    I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. All of these picks can clearly be traced to the quarterback's decision making or poor throws. Receivers run similar routes throughout the game. Too blame a bad throw on Pennington because the defense 'saw the route already' seems silly. If Pennington can't make certain throws or identify open receivers unless the defensive backs are lost, then that is a problem.

                    And quite honestly, it's not been Chad's failure to take care of the ball recently that bothered me. It's the complete lack of points that his offense is able to put up. The Bills game was a perfect example of this. They had the worst defense in the NFL with a ridiculous amount of injuries and Chad's offense put up a measly 14 points. We were shut out in the first half!

                    It completely boggles my mind when people (not you necessarily) point to a QB's completion percentage after a game as 'proof' that he had a great game. Of course, this matters very little if the offense puts up virtually no points. The Jets offense is so easy to game plan because of Chad's physical limitations; an offense who's field is squeezed within 20 yards can simply NOT be effective on any type of consistent basis. That's exactly what our offense is: ineffective.

                    The point being is that LC said in the paper "If there is ONE guy to blame IT'S NOT CHAD PENNINGTON"
                    Good, teammates should stick up for their players. Chad is a great guy I'm sure. It's no surprise that the team would support him however he's playing.
                    -The run blocking is terrible; can;t open holes(which in turn leads to...)
                    -The running game is terrrible (to....)
                    -Play calling is one dimensional... (to...)
                    You see now these are exactly the types of things I mean when I say that Chad's limitations holds the offense back. When a defense has virtually no fear of the passing game stretching the field, they can squeeze the field to within 20 yards. And when that happens, a defense can much more easily load up against the run.

                    Also, another problem I think with the running game may be the commitment to the no-huddle offense. When the offensive linemen don't have time to 'anchor in' so to speak, it can be far tougher to explode of the line and dominate.
                    -Run D sucks and they pound it down our throats (to...)
                    -The D is on the field a long time (to...)
                    I agree, the defense is AWFUL on this team. However blaming them for the loss seems a little shortsighted. Between the Rhodes play and Vilma's interception at the end of the half, it can be easily argued that the defense put up 10 points for the team. How many did the offense put up again?
                    This is a compounding problem...Chad is a proven QB theres a reason we win more games when he plays than when he doesnt. Also, the picks last week were sooo costly but I think they weren't solely his fault, more like an avalanche of problems....Also, if you think the costly picks in Buffalo can dissprove my point McCareins and Coles both admitted to mis running their routes. Coles was supposed to stop before the 1st down marker and get YAC and McCareins was supposed to run a curl and he ran a 9.
                    Of course we've won more games with Chad than without him. The likes of Brooks Bollinger and Patrick Ramsey are far worse, I'll definitely agree with you there ;)

                    However, this talk of Chad as a proven QB seems to imply as though he made this team a serious contender. That is simply not true; the jets have never been a contender with Pennington. Every year we've made the playoffs it involved us getting in after the last week and requiring other teams to lose to do so. And honestly, virtually all of our playoff runs ended in Chad playing horribly in a blowout loss. Our most successful year under Chad was probably 2004 where his awful play against the powerhouse teams that year, New England and Pitt, kept us from having any chance of contending. The offense put up a total of ONE touchdown in the 4 games we played against them that year. And that was with the NFL's leading rusher! People love to blame Doug Brien for keeping us out of the AFC championship that year but Penny played AWFUL in that game. I if remember, our offense put up 3 points that day.

                    I personally think Chad is at the end of his rope with the Jets and its sad to see a guy as talented (not in arm strength but many other ways) as he is to end with the Jets with nothing to show for it. I've seen Ken O'Brien, Richard Todd I've seen tape of Namath and I think Chad, over his career is better than all of them in terms of decision making and managing 4 quarters of a game. Namath could press ebtter than anyone bc of his arm strength and lack of defensive complexity back then. O'Brien and Todd are analagous to Pennington in terms of the wasted opportunity of talent, I hate to see him go but I think next year if he's not gone theres a QB controversy.
                    Honestly, I think that Mangini's sticking by Pennington is more of a loyalty and respect thing than anything else. Pennington worked hard last year (if nothing else, he played very similar to what he's done this year IMO) and Mangini could be trying to maintain his loyalty to him. Another thing of course, could be locker room stability. Chad is undoubtedly a likable guy and I would expect nothing less than the entire locker room to rally behind him regardless of how poor he plays.

                    It's not as if the organization has been 'supportive' of Pennington since Mangini and Tannenbaum came into power. They were practically begging Chad to get cut because of his contract, drafted a quarterback very early, and humiliated him by forcing him to 'compete' with the likes of Ramsey, Bollinger, and the newly drafted Clemens. I would be shocked to see Pennington not traded in the offseason.


                    sorry for the essay making up for lost time
                    No need to apologize. Best post on this slow board in a while.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by hcbrad08 View Post
                      Sorry, I've been slackin guys....Not that it matters but Im just trying to say Im not just jumping in to slander any of you....

                      I've watched every game this year closely and the idea Chad is done as A starter (this year) is a bit unfounded...The game against the giants....I'll go through the picks

                      The long lofty one: ALL ON CHAD. He read the wrong defense blew out his mechanics and pulled a grossman and lobbed a pass off his back foot. Worst decision I've personally ever seen Chad make (Scary but it happens)...

                      Sam Madisons Pick: He was talking smack after the game about how he knew Chad threw a "light ball" but when asked by a reporter why he was torched and didn't jump those routes three times earlier in the game: once to baker once to LC and once when he had coverage on a swing pass...he said ok well he doesn't throw that bad a ball we just knew what play was coming....(bad pass and a bit soft but no huddle semi responsible for that one) Antonio Pierce also said after the game that they love playing against "that crap" (no huddle hurry up offense) He said when chad barks we get better reads on what play is coming.

                      The last pick by Aaron ross well first let me say I think we all know from last year (against the pats in the playoffs: santes int for td) that when the jets offense is asked to press at the end of games (not hurry but press and force throws downfield and get away from their plan) Chad can easily get jumped... Aaron ross also masked his coverage well and made a good play but in a 1st and 10 interview on cold pizza he said "we saw that formation and play earlier in the game, and they got us but we remembered we saw it on film and when they brought it again we knew it was coming thats why i showed blitz"

                      The point being is that LC said in the paper "If there is ONE guy to blame IT'S NOT CHAD PENNINGTON"
                      -The run blocking is terrible; can;t open holes(which in turn leads to...)
                      -The running game is terrrible (to....)
                      -Play calling is one dimensional... (to...)
                      -ineffective playaction; chads best move (to...)
                      -3 and outs early in the second half (to...)
                      -Run D sucks and they pound it down our throats (to...)
                      -The D is on the field a long time (to...)
                      -We start losing and have to press and chad can't press (he can hurry and metriculate but not press)

                      This is a compounding problem...Chad is a proven QB theres a reason we win more games when he plays than when he doesnt. Also, the picks last week were sooo costly but I think they weren't solely his fault, more like an avalanche of problems....Also, if you think the costly picks in Buffalo can dissprove my point McCareins and Coles both admitted to mis running their routes. Coles was supposed to stop before the 1st down marker and get YAC and McCareins was supposed to run a curl and he ran a 9.

                      I understand its easy to blame Chad, but howdo you explain when we need a score at the end of the first half when we dont press but hurry with the 2 minute drill we almost always march down the field and score, and admittedly its something we can only do in the 1st half which confuses me. Its a different game in the 4th than in the 2nd..essentially we can't win with anyone if we cant keep a 10 point lead in the 2nd half. Our play calling and formations (predictable offensive calls and playing out of our Defensive players strengths in the 3-4 instead of the 4-3) shows theyre not trying to accomodate players strengths (d with 3- 4, chad with play calling and no running game) but a vanilla (preset) gameplan (which requires almost perfect execution every play to be only adequate)

                      Personally if we have to press Id rather sub in Clemens he showed he can Press ie Ravens game with the best of them, BUT he hasnt showed he can manage a game well enough in 3/4 of the game in order to merit his position as the starter.


                      I personally think Chad is at the end of his rope with the Jets and its sad to see a guy as talented (not in arm strength but many other ways) as he is to end with the Jets with nothing to show for it. I've seen Ken O'Brien, Richard Todd I've seen tape of Namath and I think Chad, over his career is better than all of them in terms of decision making and managing 4 quarters of a game. Namath could press ebtter than anyone bc of his arm strength and lack of defensive complexity back then. O'Brien and Todd are analagous to Pennington in terms of the wasted opportunity of talent, I hate to see him go but I think next year if he's not gone theres a QB controversy.


                      sorry for the essay making up for lost time

                      Nice post, a wealth of info in there and your analysis of the issues that lead to each other and eventually to a loss was awesome. I think what you're trying to say is things aren't as simple as they look and the turnovers and losses aren't really on Chad, but he's probably running out of time very quickly. I agree with you, I don't think everything's his fault, and right now he probably gives this team the best chance to win. He's got EVERYTHING except that gun of an arm, and is supremely talented, most Jets fans (myself included) love the guy. However, in a couple games, around the bye week maybe, we're going to have to take a look at this team and see what direction we're headed in. And the thought process hopefully will be something along the lines of, are we making the playoffs this year? If not, Clemens should at least get a couple of starts before the end of the season so we have a good idea of what we have with him, because if he's not the future we'll need to address that in this upcoming draft. Great post, stick around here a little more this forum gets really slow otherwise.


                      Originally posted by hcbrad08 View Post
                      Needs (In Order):
                      1)NT:SPACE EATER
                      2)RT:MAULER who can power run bock
                      3)LG:RUN BLOCKING MAULER KILLER INSTINCT TO PICK UP BRICK
                      4)LDE: Converted taller DT Ellis isnt effective enough in the 3-4 and hes 31 or 32
                      5)ROLB:Hobson get swallowed at the line Bowens comes in only to blitz (only effective) Need a compliment to Bryan Thomas
                      6)RCB: Revis is having growing pains but will be a #1 Dyson forgot how to play football, miller will never be a #2 and Barrett makes me want to vomit. I like a DeJuan Dribble, he reminds me of ronde barber but I think hes out of our league in terms of need vs where hes gonna be taken I'm guessing 3rd round as of today cant pick that high. Maybe well get lucky.

                      I also wouldnt mind (espcially if the coaches still want to go with Chad next year) a very tall 6-4 or 6-5, jumping type reciever. I think it would make him better and ad an element a Jets offense hasnt seen since Keyshawn Johnson
                      I agree with you on all of the needs, though I think the top 4 will get mixed around depending on whose available. Also like the mention of the corner spot in there. My question to you is this, you mention the OLB spot but didn't specify there. What kind of guy are you talking, a pure pass rusher or a guy with experience dropping into coverage as well? Just curious to see what you're thinking there and why. Finally, with the wideouts I think if a good guy's available at the top of the draft we could look in that direction depending on what LC is thinking of doing, since he's alluded to retirement. A jump ball guy would be nice, but if Coles continues to say he doesn't think he could handle that many more training camps or tells us we should try and come up with a successor, a tough guy, good blocker that runs well after the catch in the mold of our starters now would be awesome. I love our wideouts, one of the more underrated starting duos in the league. Again, nice post...
                      Last edited by derza222; 10-10-2007, 10:21 PM.

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                      • So do you guys think that the added emphasis mangini put on form tackeling today during practice will show dividends? It seems as tho each week we have improved in certain aspects; maybe they weren't enough to win the game but there were signs of def. improvement. Our first two weeks there were serious problems with opponents starting field position as well as ours (pats kickoff td). I don't remember exact numbers, but besides the obvious 2 return tds, our opponents field position has decreased each game as well as ours has increased. And I did see some good plays against the screen. Maybe this week it will be wrapping up and driving the legs at the point of contact until someone else can get there to take the guy down, limiting YAC. I beleive that the screen plays and form tackling are gonna be a major issue this weekend when playing westrbook. We need to stop him as soon as we hit him, becuase he is very dangerous in the open field.

                        I think the most important thing for us is to play 4 consistent qtrs of hard nosed football. Not 3 3/4 because right now, we aren't good enough to get by on just talent.

                        I am going to look for another solid job by our line limiting qb hurries and sacks, and I do have this notion that chad might be getting rid of the ball too quickly, perhaps afraid to really hang in there and take the hit (someone let me know what they think, becuase im not sold on this idea yet, but i just had the thought in the back of my mind). The thing to look for here is going to be getting some pressure on the qb, as it always is. Mcnabb, like any qb, given enough time will be able to find an open reciever. However, we all know Donovan isn't the most accurate qb in the league, far from it. If we can somehow contain westbrook and make him uncomfortable, i feel his innacuracies will start to show. Especially since hes not 100% with his mobility due to his knee.

                        "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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                        • I think the idea Chad's become gun-shy is well founded...Throughout his career has been sacked and really doesn't have a true and proven veteran in front of him (like pete kendall). It doesn't explain all his decisions and mistakes but its probably a reason hes making bad throws which we haven't traditionally seen him do.

                          I think we've been in every game we've played with the exception of the 2nd half of the patriots game. We have the ability to beat these teams it's just a matter of gameplanning and improvising if its not working. Creativity in blitz packages and offensive schemes last year got us a long way. The defense needs to step up and the offense needs to operate at least decently in both the pass and run game. The idea that chad is not responsible for any or all our offensive woes is unfounded but to blame him entirely is even more problematic. Hes had "5 plays" that if he could have go incomplete or taken a sack he would have around 115 QB rating and perhaps 2 more wins. I think he steps up this weekend, remember to watch his entire play and see how the team picks him up or leaves him out to dry. (Bill Walsh arguably the greatest offensive football mind ever said the last thing he worries about is a QBs arm strength, i think he woul dlove a QB with chads abilities...too bad our coach isnt Bill walsh hahaha (RIP))

                          In terms of the draft...
                          -NT: Red Bryant: I can't say i like him. 1st I've seen him play and hes not dominant in college so what will he do in the pros. He also had season ending kneee surgury last season and missed the Holiday Bowl. We already have a guy whos 315 at 6'1'' with knee problems playing NT and he hasn't exactly worked out. The last thing I want is a TALL NT who doesnt carry as much weight as I would like. I know some think its taboo but a shorter guy who is more compact has traditionally been the better fit at NT. I know a strong base and occupying multiple blockers is key, but I a guy who is 6'5'' and 325 (bryant) is not as big as a guy whos 6'2'' 325 (wilfork) who has more weight per sq. in. and is just massive. Think about it this way...Seymore and pro bowl 34 defensive end is 6-5 310. I like Jason Shirley a bit more bc Fresno state runs more of a 3-4 (its a college modified systm and in the WAC so take it for what you will) but hes too tall as well for my liking). Regardless we need a monster in the middle and if he can be it Id prefer him. Id REALLY prefer a NT 6'3'' or under carrying 325+. To be perfectly honest besides Raji who would have been perfect for the Jets, Frank Morton Tulane is the only true NT in terms of optimal size (a huge part of being of NT...but are his skills that bad?). We'll see.
                          -DE: I love Ty Jackson at LSU I want to see how he times for triangle and 40.
                          Calais Cambell at Miami might also come out his 6-8 280 DE whos still getting stronger. Im wary about the fact he might be too tall but again we'll see His play speaks for itself (esp against UNC when miami was stinking it up he still looked good). I also like Dre Moore out of Maryland for DE he's 6-4 310 and he dominates. He plays fast enough to be an end and I think he'd be a great value pick if he drops to the 3rd round.
                          -OLB: shawn crable, quentin groves, kenny iwebema....Tommy Blake would have been perfect for our D but he left the team for personal reasons. (1st Raji out for ineligibility now him...the draft is falling away from us)

                          Ultimately I started my crazy postulating (including ridiculous trades and the liek) and came just after Limas Sweed anounced he's done for the season...
                          Cut:
                          Hicks
                          Clement
                          McCareins
                          Trade (all to teams with 4-3 defenses):
                          Vilma:1st rounder
                          Robertson: 2nd rounder
                          Hobson: 3rd rounder
                          and now you have miraculously
                          1a: Quentin Groves OLB
                          1b: Gosder Cherilus RT
                          2a: Adarius Bowman WR
                          2b: Roy Schuening LG
                          3a: DeJuan Dribble CB
                          3b: Dre Moore DE
                          4: Frank Morton NT
                          5: Amir Pinnix RB
                          6: Chester Adams OG
                          7: Erick Wicks SS

                          This is essentially an attempt to solve all the Jets problems via the draft...To be honest I dont think theyll trade Vilma unless they feel hes completely useless in the 34 and or unless they feel they can gain a big NT to protect him...Frank Morton is prob not the solution if this were how the draft fell I would expect us to pick up a NT in Free Agency or trade if possible.

                          Basically these are just all prosepct I like for the value of where theyre picked
                          QB, OG, OLB, WR, CB, MLB, RB, FS

                          Exactly Why The Jets were the Coolest Team in the NFL under Rex, but Bowles is the man-see Arians speech:

                          http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/...x-in-town.html


                          http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/...e-for-you.html

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                          • That is an absolutely sick mock draft. Tons of players I love in there. Figure I'll give quick thoughts.

                            1a: Quentin Groves OLB
                            Out of all of the first round guys I think Groves is the best OLB for our defense, as he has a little more experience dropping into coverage than most. I think if we take a guy that's not as smooth dropping back into coverage or just convert a DE we'll have trouble in coverage because although both of our OLB's are great pass rushers they'll be liabilities dropping back. A guy that you mentioned who I LOVE as a fit for us is Crable, I think he'd be a great fit and if we could grab him in the second it'd be a massive steal.

                            1b: Gosder Cherilus RT
                            Can't really argue with Cherilus at all, we definitely need a RT and he's quite a good player, could look in that direction a little later but with a guy like him on the board it's tough to pass up.

                            2a: Adarius Bowman WR
                            Bowman is probably my favorite wideout in the draft for us. If LC decides to hang 'em up eventually I think he's a great future starting wideout for us. Right in the mold of our receivers, strong, good after the catch, good blocker. I love the mold of our wideouts and Bowman fits in very nicely with what we have at the position. Also adds a new dimension to our offense with his height.

                            2b: Roy Schuening LG
                            Like this pick as well. To be honest, I don't know as much about Schuening as the other guys you've mentioned so far, but I trust you and based on the position I think this pick really solidifies our line. Very solid for years to come.

                            3a: DeJuan Dribble CB
                            Really like Tribble, just a good overall corner and I like the fact that he has good ball skills as well. I think that's going to be a focus as we look for a starter across from Revis, as we'll want a guy who not only cover number 2 wideouts well but can make some plays for us if offenses throw away from Revis for the majority of a game.

                            3b: Dre Moore DE
                            Moore is a fantastic player, one of my favorites in the draft. I honestly see him rising up into the first round range, so if we get him here he's an absolute steal. The best thing about him is his versatility, as he's played some NT and DE and has the ability to play both in the pro's. If we draft him, we can rotate him in at all spots and if he does have some success at the NT spot we can give him a shot to bulk up and play there, even though he is a tad tall. And if not, we can leave him at end. Really like Moore for us.

                            4: Frank Morton NT
                            Morton has the best frame for a 3-4 NT outside of Raji in this draft. Like Shirley, I don't know all that much about him, but at this point he's definitely worth a shot.

                            5: Amir Pinnix RB
                            Don't know too much about Pinnix (by the way, a little info on Schuening, Morton, Pinnix, Adams, and Wicks would be great) but purely based on size he doesn't look too big, a larger back to compliment Leon would be my preference but again I don't know much about him so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.

                            6: Chester Adams OG
                            Again, don't know much about Adams but like the pick for OL depth and he looks like he's as monster so I can't complain.

                            7: Erick Wicks SS
                            Same deal with Wicks here, although I'd really only take him at this point if he's a good ST guy, I kind of like our safety depth. Wouldn't mind seeing a linebacker here. By the way, after trading Vilma who's starting inside next to Harris, Barton I'd guess?

                            Again, very nice mock draft, love some players at the top. It'll be interesting to see where a lot of these guys that have first round potential, Bowman and Moore come to mind and possibly Tribble scratches the late first if somebody falls in love, end up.

                            Comment


                            • Why can't Mangini just say 'okay the 3-4 did not work, let's move back to the 4-3 so our players are more comfortable'

                              If that is the case then we go out and draft a DT or DE for the 4-3 and then this would be our roster:

                              DE - Ellis
                              DT - Robertson
                              DT - Coleman/Draft Pick
                              DE - Thomas/Draft Pick
                              OLB - Barton
                              MLB - Vilma/Harris
                              OLB - Hobson
                              Penn State University - Detroit Red Wings - New York Jets - Red Bull New York - Fulham FC

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                              • scenario I just heard on the radio: obviously the Panthers are desperate for a QB, and they have a first place team in a very bad division. I don't think they want Carr or Vinny leading them to the playoffs. The question is would you consider trading Pennington to the Panthers for maybe a 1st and a later 2nd or something, and then sort of throw away this season with Kellen at QB, come back next year with 2 new first rounders and have a real team?


                                ^^Sig From Nvot9
                                J-E-T-S JETS! JETS! JETS!

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