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  • Wow. We traded our 4th? Not good. Not good at all...
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    • Originally posted by thetedginnshow View Post
      Wow. We traded our 4th? Not good. Not good at all...
      Yeah that's really kind of disappointing. All we've got left is the 6th. I like Shonn Greene a lot but he certainly could have been available at 76 and we really need more picks still. I thought if anything it would make sense to move down, at least not moving the 4th. Guess the scouting department really did not like the draft very much this year.

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      • Originally posted by derza222 View Post
        Guess the scouting department really did not like the draft very much this year.
        I think its not that they didn't like this draft but rather this is the Jets draft philosophy now.

        Last year the Jets had two picks in the first 110. The year before they had two picks in the first 175. They're just going to go get the two guys they want and not much else. Which is not something I agree with especially.

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        • I don't know if you can say Greene would have been there at 76. He was certainly one of the most talented players left in the draft so if they like him, then it's the right decision. Rex said it wasn't even close for them, so provided that's the truth, it's good that they got him at a point where he couldn't be taken ahead of them. It's just disappointing for me from the standpoint that we're so good at drafting fourth rounders.

          However, I'm convinced Greene will be great for three reasons:

          1) Last name Greene.
          2) He's from New Jersey.
          3) LOOK AT HIS LEGS.

          Oh and I know Rex was talking about the three-headed attack, but I hope we trade Thomas Jones.

          EDIT: I'll add a fourth. His nickname is War Machine. How cool is that?
          Last edited by thetedginnshow; 04-26-2009, 10:09 AM.
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          • Im fine with Shonn Greene but we seemed to give up alot to move up.

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            • Originally posted by Hurricanes25 View Post
              Im fine with Shonn Greene but we seemed to give up alot to move up.
              As a prospect, Shonn Greene was the RB I wanted the Jets to get.

              But I wanted a WR more. Louis Murphy is still on the board too. :(

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              • I think the biggest thing to look at the Green selection is that they had all night to think about this. They had hours upon hours to decide whether selecting Green trumps our 3.12 plus our 4th rounder and obviously they felt so.

                For what it's worth, Rex was on ESPN saying that Green was by far and away the number one person still on their board and that they were ecstatic to be able to land him.

                He also said my new favorite phrase; GROUND AND POUND

                "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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                • Originally posted by Crickett View Post
                  I think its not that they didn't like this draft but rather this is the Jets draft philosophy now.

                  Last year the Jets had two picks in the first 110. The year before they had two picks in the first 175. They're just going to go get the two guys they want and not much else. Which is not something I agree with especially.
                  I think it's a little of both. That is certainly our philosophy, and I agree I don't like it very much. But at the same time, we could have traded 2010 picks to get these guys, particularly Greene.

                  Originally posted by thetedginnshow View Post
                  I don't know if you can say Greene would have been there at 76. He was certainly one of the most talented players left in the draft so if they like him, then it's the right decision. Rex said it wasn't even close for them, so provided that's the truth, it's good that they got him at a point where he couldn't be taken ahead of them. It's just disappointing for me from the standpoint that we're so good at drafting fourth rounders.

                  However, I'm convinced Greene will be great for three reasons:

                  1) Last name Greene.
                  2) He's from New Jersey.
                  3) LOOK AT HIS LEGS.

                  Oh and I know Rex was talking about the three-headed attack, but I hope we trade Thomas Jones.

                  EDIT: I'll add a fourth. His nickname is War Machine. How cool is that?
                  I definitely love Shonn Greene don't get me wrong. It's just there are still a lot of things we need to address. Trading up for Greene is a huge vote of confidence for David Clowney IMO. If Clowney and Cotchery are a good starting duo, and that's a huge if although they compliment each other fairly well, we're in alright shape with Stuckey in the slot, Keller as a receiving threat, Smith doing some things, etc. Obviously we'll be running the ball a ton. But you have positions like defensive line, offensive line, tight end, wide receiver, that still need help.

                  I think we may see a lot of signings for those little depth spots right after the draft. Things where we decided we wanted a few vets at some positions but wanted to see what we could do after the draft and didn't want to show our hand early. But particularly the offensive line and tight end spots need a hell of a lot of work.


                  Any guesses at what we do with our final selection? I'm just going to guess that it's a tight end, but a lineman or really anything else is likely as well.

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                  • Ive said this before and Ill say it again. I dont like our WR situation at all.

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                    • I say our pick is BPA from the ACC.
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                      • I'm honestly not thrilled with our WR situation, but I'm not as worried as some i guess. Cotchery has already proven he can equal, if not exceed Coles' production and I would bet good money that if given the #2 or #3 spot, Stuckey can improve upon his 32 catches, 360 yards and 3 tds.

                        That was Stuckey's line in limited duty. In all fairness, no one thought Cotchery was going to be putting up 1000 yds and 6 tds a season as well until someone gave him a chance. Stuckey has the skillset to put up 800 yds and ~5 tds. I was all for giving our QBs a shot, but I'm more than thrilled with Sanchez and now I'm all for giving our WR's a shot to see what they can do.

                        "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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                        • Oh I hate the Patriots. Next year's draft will be loaded and they again have a ton of picks.
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                          • Touching on some things that were said.

                            I would rather give up a pick in this draft versus 2010 draft for the move up. I never like giving future picks because you don't know what will be there. This isn't necessarily a deep draft, so getting 2 guys that you feel were in the higher tiers is fine by me.

                            They obviously felt very strongly about the 2 guys that they got, which is exactly what you want. I'd rater get 2 guys you really like and truely feel are worth moving up for because they can help your team, than just saying that we got some guys and they may help in those areas. Get good players! You highly value them, go get them, don't just sit there and be content with guys who you aren't as high on.

                            I agree that we have been great in the 4th round, and it suchs giving that up. However, there is a reason they gave it up, they obviously felt strong about Greene.

                            I love the idea of having a tough defense and deep/strong running game. That is my ideal situation. It will be great to help the young/inexperienced QBs learn. Whether that QB is Kellen (while he lets Sanchez learn the offense and hopefully proves that he belongs as an NFL starting QB) or Sanchez starting starting early or later, this is an ideal to not overload the QB or put to much pressure on their shoulders.

                            Is Sanchez to those WRs better than Clemens to Crabtree/Cotchery? Maybe it is....that is the thing, you don't really know. You can't look at it in a single year view, and you certainly can't take the view that one will pan out and the other will not. If Sanchez is a top level QB, YES THE SANCHEZ ONE IS BETTER. If Clemens plays like crap, YES THE SANCHEZ ONE IS BETTER. Whether it is either of those, or the opposites, we are yet to see. Fact remains, there was obviously some level of understanding between coaches and management that Clemens couldn't be the guy to lead us, or Sanchez really blew them away. Similarly, there was something that let Crabtree fall.

                            I'll be honest. When they traded up to #5 i was stunned and worried (once i saw the details i felt a whole lot better, as i think we got a great deal) and initially thought Crabtree might be our selection. I agree, having that potential #1 WR locked up would be great. Also, a WR usually takes a year to get acclaimed to the league, so we could have been a year in there if we drafted a QB next year if Clemens busted. But, if you see a QB you think can excel, you take him. QB is a much more important position and is harder to find. Let him learn the offense, get a year under his belt is more important than getting a WR that year.

                            I can see both sides of the fence, and pros/cons of both. QB is a huge risk, but a necessary one. I am very happy that management did a bold move to get what they wanted. They have the perfect setup to not overload and put everythign on his shoulders with the run game and defense. Get a QB while you can. I'm looking at this in a positive light, as it is what we have. Quality over quantity. Don't give up on Clemens? Don't sell short our WRs then, maybe they will be the ones to surprise. Obviously they see somethign in them that let them not address it right now. Or, they think the current philosophy will let them be adequate and address that position through other means or next year.

                            Let's not be downers on what could be a great turning point for the franchise. It may be a big downfall, but at least we get to give it a shot while not giving up anything that hurts our future, and get a highly touted QB.

                            I'm pumped.


                            Courtesy of Fenikz - Much Appreciated

                            Originally posted by dRaFtDoRk
                            You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.

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                            • Originally posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma View Post
                              They obviously felt very strongly about the 2 guys that they got, which is exactly what you want. I'd rater get 2 guys you really like and truely feel are worth moving up for because they can help your team, than just saying that we got some guys and they may help in those areas. Get good players! You highly value them, go get them, don't just sit there and be content with guys who you aren't as high on.
                              The picks the Jets have been giving up are the ones that are used to build the foundations of their teams. Trading up for 2 guys every year might give you a Dustin Keller or a David Harris, but you'll miss out on all of the mid to late round steals that makes the draft so compelling and make teams go from the bottom of the barrel to the top of the heap in one year.

                              Originally posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma View Post
                              They obviously felt very strongly about the 2 guys that they got

                              Fact remains, there was obviously some level of understanding between coaches and management that Clemens couldn't be the guy to lead us, or Sanchez really blew them away.

                              Obviously they see somethign in them that let them not address it right now.
                              I'm going to take a cheap shot. And I apologize in advance for it.

                              "Obviously the Jets know something the people up here don't".


                              Originally posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma View Post
                              You can't look at it in a single year view, and you certainly can't take the view that one will pan out and the other will not.
                              I do look at it as a single year view. Because a lot of the better players the Jets have probably won't be Jets much longer. Faneca, who pretty much enabled the Jets OL to go from one of the worst to one of the best isn't getting any younger. Pro bowl running back Thomas Jones and one of the best pass rushing 3-4 ends in the league Shaun Ellis aren't getting any younger either. Lito Sheppard may not be a Jet more than this year although I'd hope he would be given the terms of the trade deal.

                              The way I see it, the Jets are poised to lose a lot of good players in the very near future. So there is a need to win now above the obvious one.

                              Originally posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma View Post
                              Don't sell short our WRs then, maybe they will be the ones to surprise. Obviously they see somethign in them that let them not address it right now. Or, they think the current philosophy will let them be adequate and address that position through other means or next year.
                              That's great, if you're not dependent on those receivers. If Chansi Stuckey or Dave Clowney can play in the slot and show something that indicates that they deserved to go earlier than the 7th round. But they are going to be depended on and its never a good thing to depend on two unproven 7th round WR's for a QB drafted 5th overall.

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                              • Originally posted by Crickett View Post
                                The picks the Jets have been giving up are the ones that are used to build the foundations of their teams. Trading up for 2 guys every year might give you a Dustin Keller or a David Harris, but you'll miss out on all of the mid to late round steals that makes the draft so compelling and make teams go from the bottom of the barrel to the top of the heap in one year.

                                I'm going to take a cheap shot. And I apologize in advance for it.

                                "Obviously the Jets know something the people up here don't".

                                I do look at it as a single year view. Because a lot of the better players the Jets have probably won't be Jets much longer. Faneca, who pretty much enabled the Jets OL to go from one of the worst to one of the best isn't getting any younger. Pro bowl running back Thomas Jones and one of the best pass rushing 3-4 ends in the league Shaun Ellis aren't getting any younger either. Lito Sheppard may not be a Jet more than this year although I'd hope he would be given the terms of the trade deal.

                                The way I see it, the Jets are poised to lose a lot of good players in the very near future. So there is a need to win now above the obvious one.

                                That's great, if you're not dependent on those receivers. If Chansi Stuckey or Dave Clowney can play in the slot and show something that indicates that they deserved to go earlier than the 7th round. But they are going to be depended on and its never a good thing to depend on two unproven 7th round WR's for a QB drafted 5th overall.
                                You make it sound like the later picks would have been sure thing steals. For each one that is a steal, there are a large number that don't do anything, or don't become anything special or see the field. I agree, its great to get a Cotchery, Washington, Rhodes, i totally agree, but those are exceptions, not the norm. It would be nice to have that opportunity to see if you could get one of those guys, but if you have a guy high on your board that you feel much more strongly can help your team, I don't know if i disagree with the thought of going to get him. I wish we had way more picks, and RB wasn't necessarily a position of need, totally agree, but as you mentioned, Jones is a guy who may be on the outs soon, and hopefully this helps the philosophy the Jets are building.

                                I don't know if that was a cheap shot at me, because it sure doesn't bother me. But yes, obviously the Jets know something that you probably don't. They also may have a different roadmap than you, which isn't necessarily good or bad, its different, but they are going with it. They know how the Jones talks are going and what their plan is, obviously a RB in this mold was valued higher. Who's right? I don't care. They went and got him and i hope badly he works out. I'll assume this follows their roadmap or addresses an issue they see occuring.

                                All teams are going to have turnover, and obviously we have some high valued and respected players that are in that group for the Jets. Greene can help the Jones transition. Fanaca will be around a few more years, so don't act like this is the end of the road to address this. Sheppard, if he pans out, will still be around. Hopefully Lowry can expand his game and enable us to have a smoother transition if Sheppard busts. 3-4 linemen are hard to find, and we obviously created a bigger hole with the Coleman move. There wasn't anyone in the 1st that would have helped. Aside from Brace (NT) or the Purdue DE, i'm not sure if there was many that would have quickly addressed this.
                                Fact remains, if you look at this in a 1 year scope, and needing to win this moment, it doesn't change the fact that we would have had an inexperienced and unproven QB in Clemens, and a WR coming off injury who we are assuming would have been the missing link on offense......getting a 'franchise' QB for a relatively cheap price isn't all that bad a thing. Bold and always risky, but something that is necessary to be able to build a strong franchise. I'd love for Clemens to start this year and let Sanchez grow, then in that time show he's more than capable. That wouldn't be a negative. However, if Clemens doesn't show that, at least we have someone learning and who has everything the position needs. If Sanchez beats him out and starts right away, then that also says Clemens wasn't the guy.

                                Favre was a win now approach that you are talking about, and as we all saw, it didn't get the job done.

                                I agree, its not great having to rely on unproven 7th round WRs. But Crabtree would still be a rookie coming off an injury. Clemens would still be a relative unknown. It would still be unproven to unproven, only we'd be going in with a QB that obviously hasn't drawn the faith of management or coaching staff. Plenty of what could have beens, and many different directions could hav ebeen taken. Hopefully the 2 players selected turn out good to ease any pain. There is no telling who would have been drafted if we had stayed, only lots of people being optimistic about any other player who pans out. Depth is required, but who knows how that depth would have turned out in the end - stud or out of the league.


                                Courtesy of Fenikz - Much Appreciated

                                Originally posted by dRaFtDoRk
                                You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.

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