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  • Originally posted by doingthisinsteadofwork
    Originally posted by NIN1984
    Come on bro don’t tell me you want Rattay as the QB that = 4 wins at the most, aren’t you sick of the same thing every year for the Raiders this formula has won us nothing its time for a change...

    Another thing its funny how everyone brings up Raiders don’t draft first round QB’s, ok so lets go back 20 years in 20 years of drafting Raiders have drafted 1 QB in the first round and 1 RB so why doesn’t anyone bring that up?
    because Kaufman was a success in the NFL.whereas Marinovich was a complete bust.not to metion in that stretch of 20 years they had Allen and Jackson in the backfield please explain why they needed to draft a RB in the 1st.a stupid argument.
    I think its funny that people insist on the Raiders drafting a first round QB.they have no valid reasoning behind it.
    the usual reasoning behind it is they desperately need a QB.besides Gannon Oakland has needed a QB since before the Hostetler years.
    a completely pointless argument to make.
    I like it even better when they point out that the last time Oakland drafted a WR in the 1st ROund was 88 whereas the the last time they drafted a QB in the 1st was 94.the difference is that Brown is a future HOF whereas Marinovich is a bust.shame he wore #12.
    as it is Al Davis doesnt care what the fans think.Walter will most surely be the only QB who has a chance at being the future QB for Oakland next year.
    Please explain to me why AP is not worth a top five pick.you obviously dont knwo what your talking about.
    Jamarcus Russell isnt worth a top five pick.that statement makes much more sense.he cant read defenses and has bad decision making.not to mention hes lazy.he may have all the physical qualities you look at in a QB but he most certainly doesnt have the brains.
    AL could careless what the fans,announcers,analyts,draft analysts,and everyone else say about him get used to it.
    Kaufman and Marinovich have nothing to do with Peterson, Russell, Quinn

    As for Rusell vs Petesron. Scott Wright has Rusell ranked #4 overall and Peterson #5 I think i'll take his word over some 15 year old kid.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
      give me some examples of when jamarcus has been lazy?

      jamarcus russell has a career 20-3 starting record. its hard for me to believe he cant read defenses at all. yea, he might not be have the greatest decision making in the world. he has a great arm and solid mobility those are hard things to teach an nfl quarterback. decision making you can teach especially with a quarterback guru like sarkisian.

      im not saying i want russell, i'd actually prefer calvin johnson but some of these generic responses about his laziness and his brains really bother me.
      Jamarcus Russell also has a good running game,adequet protection,and Craig davis and Dwayne Bowe to throw to.plus theres always the defense that helps win games.
      he has been reading defenses better than last but i still dont think its up to standard.I think that he is lazy.if hed studied film alot more on defenses hed probably be able to read em better.
      "The liberator who destroys my property, is fighting to save my spirit. The teacher who clears all possessions from my path will set me free."-Tyler Durden

      Comment


      • Originally posted by RaiderNation
        Originally posted by Crow
        Originally posted by RaiderNation
        Originally posted by portermvp84
        I would take Ad in the first and see if Brohm drops down to the second then take him win win situation.
        i think cj and brohm is a better win win situation cuz u still have jordan and curry.
        Jordan may be cut, so I wouldn't rely on his being here.

        Still, he's not very good anyway. AP would make a lot of sense.
        if jordan is cut i think we will take bush in the 2nd if brohm isnt there. i really want to see if jordan can comeback good next year so i think he gets 1 more chance. he did what was expected in his first year but he got hurt this year. him and fargis should make a good combo
        That $4.75 mill roster bonus makes his return pretty doubtfull. He's done nothing to warrant that sort of money.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Oaktown1981
          Originally posted by doingthisinsteadofwork
          Originally posted by NIN1984
          Come on bro don’t tell me you want Rattay as the QB that = 4 wins at the most, aren’t you sick of the same thing every year for the Raiders this formula has won us nothing its time for a change...

          Another thing its funny how everyone brings up Raiders don’t draft first round QB’s, ok so lets go back 20 years in 20 years of drafting Raiders have drafted 1 QB in the first round and 1 RB so why doesn’t anyone bring that up?
          because Kaufman was a success in the NFL.whereas Marinovich was a complete bust.not to metion in that stretch of 20 years they had Allen and Jackson in the backfield please explain why they needed to draft a RB in the 1st.a stupid argument.
          I think its funny that people insist on the Raiders drafting a first round QB.they have no valid reasoning behind it.
          the usual reasoning behind it is they desperately need a QB.besides Gannon Oakland has needed a QB since before the Hostetler years.
          a completely pointless argument to make.
          I like it even better when they point out that the last time Oakland drafted a WR in the 1st ROund was 88 whereas the the last time they drafted a QB in the 1st was 94.the difference is that Brown is a future HOF whereas Marinovich is a bust.shame he wore #12.
          as it is Al Davis doesnt care what the fans think.Walter will most surely be the only QB who has a chance at being the future QB for Oakland next year.
          Please explain to me why AP is not worth a top five pick.you obviously dont knwo what your talking about.
          Jamarcus Russell isnt worth a top five pick.that statement makes much more sense.he cant read defenses and has bad decision making.not to mention hes lazy.he may have all the physical qualities you look at in a QB but he most certainly doesnt have the brains.
          AL could careless what the fans,announcers,analyts,draft analysts,and everyone else say about him get used to it.
          Kaufman and Marinovich have nothing to do with Peterson, Russell, Quinn

          As for Rusell vs Petesron. Scott Wright has Rusell ranked #4 overall and Peterson #5 I think i'll take his word over some 15 year old kid.
          where did I ever say that Kaufamn and Marinovich have anything to do with the present.Nin used examples of when a QB and RB were drafted in the first round.
          I think you like alot of other people on this forum take Scotts word as law.
          I respect Scott,I like his opinions but i disagree with him on a fair amount of things.I could careless if Scott says that Russell is a better prospect than AP.i disagree.
          "The liberator who destroys my property, is fighting to save my spirit. The teacher who clears all possessions from my path will set me free."-Tyler Durden

          Comment


          • Originally posted by RaiderNation
            Originally posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
            i know lamont has a big contract. if we cut him how would that effect the cap?
            i dont exact but it should be alot i think. thats 1 reason why i dont want to let him go yet. do u think there is any chance of us trading him?
            I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I do know that cutting him would give us a decent bit of added cap space.

            As for trading him, not likely. Not unless he restructured his contract that his new team wouldn't have to eat that roster bonus.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Oaktown1981
              Originally posted by Crow
              Originally posted by Oaktown1981
              Because people on this board have no clue.
              I've read your posts on different boards. You're not exactly a GM candidate anywhere yourself.
              Say the guy that wants Tim Rattay as the QB.
              Beats the hell out of sinking the #1 overall pick into one of these stiffs.

              You don't need a great QB to be a great team. Better to build your defense and ground game, then find a QB who can protect the ball, move the chains, and make one or two plays a game.

              Originally posted by Oaktown1981
              Originally posted by Crow
              Originally posted by RaiderNation
              Originally posted by portermvp84
              I would take Ad in the first and see if Brohm drops down to the second then take him win win situation.
              i think cj and brohm is a better win win situation cuz u still have jordan and curry.
              Jordan may be cut, so I wouldn't rely on his being here.

              Still, he's not very good anyway. AP would make a lot of sense.
              Until Jordan is cut I doubt the Raiders draft a RB. Is it Jordans fault the OL didn't do their job this year? Is it his fault that Art Shell was a terrible HC? Is it his fault Tom Walsh was the OC?

              All I know is that Jordan had around 1500 total yards in 2004 with around 10+ tds.

              Do you really think Al would draft a RB that has been hurt 2 year in arow? Other than his freshman year he isn't been healty. Unless the Raiders trade down ( which al never does ) they won't draft Peterson.
              I think that if Peterson blows up at the combine, then yes. Al very well could fall in love with him. Calvin Johnson may be a more likely pick, but Peterson could easily be the guy.

              I believe without a doubt that Al would draft a RB before giving Jordan a free 5 million dollars.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Oaktown1981
                Originally posted by RaiderNation
                also u said rattey would only get us to 4 wins. more than this year buddy. 08 should be the year we try to find our future qb is walter sucks next year. either in FA/trade or draft one in first 3 rounds
                What makes you think Rattay would even want to come here? He isn't on this team so why even talk about him?
                Just consider "Rattay" the codename for this year's FA pickup. We'll only have one QB on the roster come draft time, so we'll definitely be in the market for FA passers.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Oaktown1981
                  I like Johnson but what good will he do if the Raiders don't have a QB?
                  And how do you know we don't have a QB? You defend Jordan by bringing up the OL sucking, and Art & Walsh being idiots. Funny how you forget all about that stuff where Walter is concerned.


                  Originally posted by Oaktown1981
                  As for Rusell vs Petesron. Scott Wright has Rusell ranked #4 overall and Peterson #5 I think i'll take his word over some 15 year old kid.
                  Scott also had us taking Dan Cody #7 overall a couple years ago and still thinks Joey Harrington will be a great QB.

                  Just for perspective.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Crow
                    Originally posted by RaiderNation
                    Originally posted by Windy City Big Gamer Uno
                    i know lamont has a big contract. if we cut him how would that effect the cap?
                    i dont exact but it should be alot i think. thats 1 reason why i dont want to let him go yet. do u think there is any chance of us trading him?
                    I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I do know that cutting him would give us a decent bit of added cap space.

                    As for trading him, not likely. Not unless he restructured his contract that his new team wouldn't have to eat that roster bonus.
                    Simple and effective way is to switch that roster bonus to a signing bonus. The new team would get cap relief and Jordan would get his money.

                    Doubtful that Jordan would get traded though. Especially coming off an MCL tear--a tear that many people are forgetting.

                    Oldie but a goodie.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Crow
                      Originally posted by Oaktown1981
                      As for Rusell vs Petesron. Scott Wright has Rusell ranked #4 overall and Peterson #5 I think i'll take his word over some 15 year old kid.
                      Scott also had us taking Dan Cody #7 overall a couple years ago and still thinks Joey Harrington will be a great QB.

                      Just for perspective.
                      Scott also had David Terrell, Koren Robinson, Rod Gardner, Freddie Mitchell and Santana Moss rated over Chad Johnson in 2001.

                      Oh yeah, and he had Ladanian Tomlinson ranked #11 overall, behind RBs Michael Bennett and Lamont Jordan and non-RB studs like David Terrell, Leonard Davis and Andre Carter.



                      Scott knows a lot Oaktown, but that does not mean he is perfect.

                      Oldie but a goodie.

                      Comment


                      • I just want to make sure I'm on the same page with you guys.

                        1 - No matter what the Raiders shouldn't draft a QB in the 1st round this year because Quinn, Rusell will be busts.

                        2 - If the Raiders trade Moss, Porter they should draft Calvin Johnson since he is the best player in this draft

                        3 - If Moss or Porter or both stay they should draft Adrian Peterson # 1 overall?


                        If the Raiders get CJ or AP this year address the OL and the Walter or whoever don't play good in 07

                        Lets just say the Raiders go 3-13 next year. Should they draft a QB next year or draft the next best RB/WR

                        Comment


                        • Let me say, personally, I would not be too disappointed with drafting Brady Quinn (sorry Crow) because I feel that his tools and intangibles are an upgrade over what Walter brings to the table. I do not feel the same way about Russell because he makes a ton of really questionable decisions with the football.

                          That said, I would prefer Peterson over anyone else. He is a special RB talent that we have not seen in the draft since LT. Johnson, however, is also a once in a lifetime WR. I just feel that Peterson can have a greater impact on this team than CJ at the moment.

                          Also, if the Raiders do draft Quinn, they'd better be ready to let him hold a clipboard on the sidelines for a year or they had better get that offensive line together and playing like 2002 or at least 2004. Otherwise Quinn is going to get creamed and he'll start developing bad habits. He, like every other QB, does poorly when he is being dragged down from behind or when a hand is in his face. If we are to bring a franchise QB in here, we need to have a very good offensive line in place which is something we were not even close to having last year. Jordan and Fargas had also be ready to get the ball a whole lot.

                          I agree that a "flavor of the day" talent at QB comes around nearly every draft with the exception of skipping a year once every so often. Looking forward, 2008 will likely be one of those years though. Quinn does truly have some of the best combination of tools and intangibles that we've seen since Palmer/Peyton came out though. All of his tools truly do rate higher than Big Ben, Eli, Rivers, Smith, Rodgers, Boller, etc dating back to Palmer.

                          Because of that, and the lack of talent that next year offers at QB, I would not be sad to see Quinn in Silver and Black. We had better get that offensive line and some more offensive weapons built up immediately though if we do take him.

                          Oldie but a goodie.

                          Comment


                          • I just don't see these once every 5 years type of intangibles from Quinn. I see a guy who doesn't elevate the play of those around him. I see a guy who will fold under pressure. What I don't see is why everyone thinks he's so much better than Leinart. I'd take Paris Hilton's playpal over Quinn without even blinking. He just had that "it" at USC. I simply haven't see that from Quinn.

                            In response to Oaktown.


                            1. No, I'm not saying that either guy will definitely be a bust. But I see a ton of bust poential in both. Too much so that I'd even consider taking them #1 overall even if I thought the need was great enough to justify it...which I don't.

                            What I am sayingis that Walter hasn't been given the chance to prove whether or not he's got what it takes. Regardless of what any of these nimrods here think, there's simply no way that you can judge a QB based on what we did on offense this year. A QB is only as good as the weapons/protection around him, and Walter had none.

                            Why burn the #1 overall pick on a position that may have already been suitably addressed? Why pass over far superior talent? I just don't see the logic.


                            2. Moss should be dealt. If we retain Porter, then the need for a WR may not be as great. Still, Porter is essentially a glorified slot receiver. It'd be tough using him as a reason to pass on the best overall talent in the draft. Even harder still when you consider the fact that Johnson's attitude is the polar opposite of these two idiots.

                            That said, dumping both and taking Peterson certainly wouldn't be the worst thing we could do either.


                            3. If Moss and Porter both stay, Al Davis should be shot in the face. But, yes. Peterson would be the easy pick there.


                            4. If we can pin the blame for a 3-13 season on the QB position, then we'll address that as needed. Most likely in free agency.

                            If the top player available to us is a DT, then we take the DT. If it's a McFadden, and we took CJ this year, we take McFadden.

                            All that said, with a competant coaching staff, there's simply no reason for this team to not reach .500 if we address the glaring problems at WR, RT, and RB.

                            Comment


                            • I say Peterson isn't worth the #1 pick due to all his injury concerns...

                              I’m so sick of hearing we don’t need a QB you can win with any QB. So you don’t need a QB? You can say that for every position!

                              -You don’t need a big time RB patriots won the Super Bowl with Antwan Smith

                              -You don’t need big time WR’s just look at the Patriots and Chargers etc..

                              That’s a very poor argument
                              Taking a Knapp.

                              Comment


                              • you can also say that the giants went to the superbowl with Kerry COliins.

                                or you can geta good QB from FA.Gannon for instance.
                                last i checked Gannon wasnt an elite QB propsect.in fact when he was drafts by the pats they wanted to convert him to DB.
                                "The liberator who destroys my property, is fighting to save my spirit. The teacher who clears all possessions from my path will set me free."-Tyler Durden

                                Comment

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